Holed up in the middle of nowhere, bored Death Cabbers get drunk and dress up as knights. Ben Gibbard talks to Rolling Stone about recording the follow-up to Transatlanticism and next week’s gig at the Bait Shop…
“Radio, for the most part, is not so helpful to bands. And, frankly, I don’t see much difference between performing on Letterman and on The OC — you’re just playing your songs. I’m sure it’s not cool to some people who’ve liked us in the past, but I could really give a fuck.”
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the typo nazi descends:
is it “i couldn’t really give a fuck”
not “i could really give a fuck”?
When I was in college, I’d call a band a sell-out for appearing on a show like the OC…
Now that I get paid to do the wild thing (have a job and have to make my own way), I can see the OC appearance as a way to get music to people that wouldn’t normally hear it…
I always wondered what bands thought about it…
The only way I see it as “selling out”, is if it’s huge bands, like the Rolling Stones, selling their wares for even more cash. When it’s bands like Modest Mouse, Low, Shins, they don’t have that many other outlets to get their music heard.
Call me a purist, but I still believe the way to get your music heard is to get on the road and play. You can get your song played on the OC or the radio, whatever. What’s really important is that your fans can see you in person, and you can still rock it like you have something to prove, not like you’re doing them a favor. It’s one thing to not give a fuck, but when it’s concerning the fanbase that got you to where you are, try and keep it real.
right on ken kwan. i’m in a band. i’m in college. i’m poor. i still wouldn’t let my ass be seen on a tv show on some major corporate station. that’s selling out on so many levels. for one, as you’re saying, it’s not a real or truly fan accessible way to get yourself out there. i mean, why don’t you get sponsored by a clothing company and appaear in ads for them by that same token then. bands do that now too and access possible fans that they wouldn’t otherwise. that’s lame though. it’s either all about the music for you or not and therefore you’re a sellout or not. i’m being pretty black and white here, but seriously, this shit is the reason people get jaded and don’t give a fuck. i’ve felt like he does about the issue, but at the end of the day doing the right thing, for myself, when it comes to my music, is way more fulfilling than having more bills in my wallet. also, if coporate america didn’t put artists in this shitty position music would be well better off. that’s the state of the world though, but me and ken kwan are still rocking so i think other folks ought to join us. by the way man, that’s a great name. maybe the best i’ve ever heard. as for better ways to promote, how about this, my web site is ghosthouse.s5.com. check it out if you like. if you see the ad popups it’s cause you’re a schmuck and don’t have a blocker. that’s my rant and i’m sticking to it. peace
“i still wouldn’t let my ass be seen on a tv show on some major corporate station.”
Trust me; you would. You’re just saying that because you’ve never been asked to appear on a TV show.
As for Ben and the good folks at Death Cab, I couldn’t give a fuck (or in Ben’s less-accurate grammar, “I could really give a fuck”) whether or not their music appears on a TV show. As long as Death Cab for Cutie keeps making consistently great music, Ben Gibbard could run around in American Eagle jeans and a Starbucks hat holding a Big Mac for all I care. Once they start making bad music, I’ll stop listening to them. It’s that simple.
realized i refernced the wrong feller there. whatever. ken kwan’s still a cool name.
YO,
I think that Death Cab on the OC has made themselves into a joke, now all of the freaks that don’t understand indie music are all like oh you must like death cab. Of course I reply, umm if you mean I like good music, then I totally agree with what you just said.
The only people who claim “sell out” are trustafarians who can actually afford to be unsuccessful. The rest of the sane people out there could care less about selling out.
And yes, there are musicians/bands that don’t sell out and survive–Fugazi, Ani DiFranco, etc…–but they are exceptions to the rule. The vast majority of bands out there want to sell out as soon as possible. If you hear them complain about another band being a sell out, guess what? Those grapes are mighty sour.
That Willie Nelson. Complete sell-out! Sinatra! Man, that guy was all about the scene! Now look at what he did! White Stripes? Wow! Who do they think they are? A rock band??!?!?!
I really don’t know what they’re saying and I could really give a fuck.
the funny thing is, prior to flaming lips doing somersaults on 90210, it was selling out. but suddenly, when they did it, it wasn’t. it was as if we all took a pass because it was such a great band. so instead, your mom’s humming “vaseline” as she makes you toast the next morning. and then the next thing you know thirty year old dudes are begging for their bands to be played on teenage soap operas. ok, more like five or seven years later. and flaming lips continue to be pretty amazing. the end.
this is the very reason by Death Cab signed to a major label — they have the resources and time to get their bands on the OC. It just how that stuff works. I see absolutely no problem with it. It’s like getting promoted or whatever.
At the end of the day, we all need to pay rent. It’s just really fucking selfish for fans to want their bands to stay DIY. They gotta retire sometime.
It’s cool if bands want to play on the O.C. Still won’t change the fact that they lose my respect though. If you want to alienate a small minority of fans like me that hate that shit, then go ahead if it means you will garner enough money to continue to play for the next 6 months. Still my choice on if I buy your album. Thats the price you pay. It’s your band, it’s your money, not mine. The only thing that I retain is the right to buy/listen to your music, and I can honestly say i hate MTV and the O.C. and I would never knowingly purchase music that would be on either. Does that matter to a band like Death Cab? Probably not. And I understand that.
uh the song is called “she don’t use jelly”, not “vaseline” you tool.
he was probably referring to the word “vaseline” as it is used in the context of the song, as in
“your mom is humming the word ‘vaseline’”
at least that’s how i read it.
Indie music fucking sucks…ALL OF IT. What happened to all the pics of a half dressed Lohan, and foot fungused Spears, Stereogum? Your blog is no different from Ultragrrrls these days, except you dont have first hand stories of being with these shitty bands as she does. But its still no different.
When you think about it, “I could really give a fuck” could be the proper way to say it, as long as there’s a sarcastic inflection in his voice when he’s saying it – like, he’s saying he *does* care, but he’s joking.
Regardless, “I couldn’t give a fuck” isn’t much more proper than “I could give a fuck” since “give a fuck” doesn’t qualify as proper english. It’s slang, and therefore subject to change without review by a jury of peers.
What about Lou Barlow “Emoh” songs being played on The OC last week? Anyone think that’s selling out? I kinda liked it; it made the show watchable for me.
I wonder if the bootlegged Fiona he’s been listening to will come across on the new CD? Or the German electronica. Sounds like a joke: What do you get when you mix Fiona Apple with German Electronica?
Anyone got a punchline?
in searching for a rant by j robbins about selling out(in which he aptly traces the desire of the people for artists to suffer back to communism literature), I found this fascinating david eggers rant about all things selling out.
http://www.aphrodigitaliac.com/mm/archive/2000/05/15/
and hey, don’t be a douche bag. I meant the part of the song that goes, “vaseline,” because the girl in the song don’t use jelly, and I had assumed the mom in my comment was making us toast. don’t you want toast, mister I-know-the-name-of-a-song?
Lord, don’t know why the grammer police decided to decend upon this section. Regardless, did no one else pick up the Pavement lyric from “Range Life” after reading that “Fuck” phrase 20 times. Hell if it’s a good enough phrase for Steven Malkmus and Ben Gibbard, it’s good enough for me.
And if it bothers you that much that they or any other band is going to be on “The OC” then don’t watch it. I just see it as another opportunity to see a band I like that only hits my town once a year (at most).
If “selling out” bothers some people so much, what draws you to the music in the first place: that it’s enjoyable or that it’s obscure? As many people know, obscure music can be used more as a status symbol than something to enjoy. “I like this, therefore, I’m better than you”–which is a load of crap.
That being said, I think that it’s annoying when bands do advertisements for things they don’t actually like/know nothing about. That’s stupid. But when The Breeders appeared on Buffy, I knew they did it because they were really into the show. That’s good.
my FAVORITE part about all these idiots bitching is that none of them get it – have any of you railing on the OC actually seen the show? it’s written by a dude that’s not unlike scott stereogum or myself – he’s 28 and got really lucky at 26 having a pilot for a show he wrote to get picked up by a major network – all of the music featured in the show is stuff he likes (i haven’t seen lou barlow or the album leaf blow up because of their exposure on the show); and the show is well-written and seth’s character is a lot like us – sarcastic and into good music (although how many of us can be the geek in school who wins over the popular girl?)
as for the bands playing the show “selling out”, well, the killers suck, but so what? get over it – this shit pays the bills, nobody gets that – apples in stereo got paid a few years back for one of their songs to be used in a commercial – how many months rent do you think that took care of? more than a years worth of tours.
It’s less “selling out” and more what comes after: bigger, more impersonal venues, higher ticket prices, godawful crowds who come to hear “that one song” and act like complete toolsheds the other 98% of the night. I’d hate to think that I’ve seen my last Death Cab show, but if they’re playing an all-ages gig at the UIC Pavillion next time they come around, then you betcha, I have. Your girlfriend’s band is better anyway, Bencakes.
i think it’s kind of lame devin thinks i’d be seen on the OC if i had the chance. corporate cohorts have commodified my culture enough and it’s absurd to think that an ethically minded fellow like myself would stoop to that level. saying that is essentially saying, “what do you mean man? make me an offer in cash and anything i hold sacred is yours.” you’re obviously more like a 9-5 man in grey flannel than an artist if you can make statements like that. be that as it may, i’m entertained by the outburst of commentary here. at very least people are concerned about this shit. the way i see it the reason that most “indie” artists blow my dick anymore is the same reason people want to be on the OC and that millions of 90s children run around in girls jeans (boy or girl be they) wearing whatever sceney band t is hip this weekend: the -music industry- as opposed to -music makers- and it’s fans and proponents are, on a large scale, more concerned with looking like hipsters, making money and doing their thing than having any responsible thoughts or actions or making any decent art. that’s cool. everybody can keep fucking rotting when i get attacked for saying someone sold out. that’s a new low, but i’m starting to comprehend why all this fucking music and all these people are so gay and lame – they’re you dude. i’m a fucking college kid hailing from jersey and i feel like i’m in an ethical and artistic void. not like i’m fucking efrim from godspeed or something, then again, i relate to him more than death cab now i guess. peace
Hey, cowboy dave, does your war against all those who are “so gay and lame” (careful with your adjectives there!) extend to your refusal to use capitals? Are capitals “selling out”?
So you don’t like some music. Then don’t listen to it! But don’t get mad at people’s enjoyment. Some people actually enjoy the Killers–go by Ultragrrl’s site if you want proof. I don’t, but I don’t get mad at other people for liking that stuff. And I’m glad they get enjoyment out of something.
In my experience, people who’ve never had to worrry about money make the most noise about selling out.
Do you guys honestly think that a band will meet up in a van before their first show and say “Let’s strive for a small, loyal following. Who cares if we make money or sell a lot of records”?? Puh-leeze!
Well i’ve heard this selling out argument in circles in which i take part, more times then i am able to count. I always come to the point of how stupid it is, getting big isn’t selling out, as long as they don’t change, there not selling out. Good sharlot theres a band that sold out. Simple plan, a nother band that sold out, they chagned after achieving mainstream status.
As long as Ben and deathcab keep making great music i don’t see why it matters.
what about Sam Beam on The L Word.
I’m sorry, that just made me feel like I was in a very confusing meeting. That’s the thing, hearing some songs on TV just makes me feel like I’m watching someone’s business meeting. Which I am.
Pageblank, you slay! Maybe cowboy dave is really really into e.e. cummings or bell hooks? I wonder how well cowboy dave’s band pays for his college education? If I’d have known I’d have 86ed the campus jobs, the scholarships, and loans.
Getting paid well to do something you like is not selling out. Neither is getting your song plucked for use in a movie/tv show/[insert product here] you’d enjoy anyway. If the payout dictates or curb your creative impulse, then you may have a bit of a dilemma. Everyone’s line is different. It’s not a Reality Bites either/or, there’s a lot in between dating the Ben Stiller character and dating the Ethan Hawke character. (There’s a take a fucking shower joke in here somewhere, but I can’t be arsed to go there.)
Pageblank why would we need to read Ultragrrrl, when Stereogum prints the same exact shit as she does? Last week he put up atleast 2 entries about this stupid fight between The Killers, and The Bravery. Like I said, this site has become an exact replica of Ultragrrrl.com, which in my opinion, is why she was ranked number 20 on a certain list…..
Jen your 28 and still listen to this new wave teeny bopper shit that they just try to package as “Indie?” That is just sad.
“Stereogum prints the same exact shit as she does?”
I don’t often find myself often coming to the defense of bloggers, but this statement is just false. Ya, sometimes content that turns up here is also on Ultragrrrl, but it’s also on every other celeberty/pop culture/music blog out there — that’s just the nature of the internet. Scott does a good job of consistently delivering interesting/funny/trashy/etc… content in a humorous and thoughtful way. I think that’s reflected in the mostly intelligent and amusing comments you see posted here. On top of that, he is constantly exposing readers to new and interesting bands (not just fawning over the same one or two?ahem, ultra I’m looking at you). Of course you’re free to disagree, but then you can also stop reading.
i never said i was 28. how old do y’all think scott stereogum is? i’m willing to bet he’s not 22.
besides, it’s “you’re” not “your”… jackass. ;p
and since when is death cab or any of the bands i mentioned new wave? since when is new wave indie? wtf?
Oh gee the grammar police again. YIPPIE
Cowboy Dave:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t allowing pop-up ads to fund your band’s website along the same lines as your reference to appearing in a clothing add or playing your music on a lame-ass tv show? Actually, unless your band is somehow involved in the add, it seems like it might be a grander “sell out” offense.
Evidenced by your rant, shouldn’t your music, and only your music, support your web site?
Couldn’t selling t-shirts and other merchandise fall under the same category as “selling out” since Hot Topic and other people are making a profit off of it? If the music is good, who gives a rats ass?
hahahaha, don julio has no concept of bandwidth and the cost of webspace.
This whole “selling out” thing can sometimes be a gray area. I consider “selling out” in the artists standpoint by them forgetting who they are musically, as a person, letting fame and money control them, and/or alienating their early fans. (see Phair, Liz)
As for bands being on a show like The OC, I always really liked the idea. It was exposure for bands who otherwise had trouble getting their material available to the masses. What does suck is when some of the bands get too popular to a point, like Tequila Red pointed out, with higher ticket prices, bigger venues, and unbearable crowds that just don’t “get” it.
The aforementioned aspect of it sucks a lot, but the part I fear the most is when artists actually throw away the integrity of their music, become money-hungry fame whores, and don’t give two shits about their fans anymore, past or present. The ironicism behind it is that many of these artists who eventually become these monsters have adamantly stood against this kind of thing for years prior.
When it comes down to it, I think most of us can find common ground on this whole “What is considered selling out?” arugment. And I think it all comes down to fear of being alienated by the bands we love and/or once loved. Because we as early fans who helped make them who they are in some way or another because of our support.
ok, i just spent probly 10 minutes typing and got this:
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…so that’s cool. i guess we have to protect all the children on this thread. i’m done with it. have fun eating big macs and watching the oc while the world rots around you. i’ll be making my music and living my life with decency – for the most part – peace
-cowboy dave
Being on the OC won’t make them the next Backstreet Boys. Simple as that.
What’s missing in all this commentary is the sad state of radio, as Gibbard hints at in his comments.
Radio has become such a commercial conglomerate whore that getting airplay is not really much different then selling your song to McDonald’s, except you get the money upfront, instead of the weekly BMI checks for $2.37.
The Shins got $15,000 for selling 5 seconds of “New Slang” to McDonald’s over 3 years ago, and it allowed them to replace old music equipment and not have to think about jumping to a major label from SubPop to help break even on finances.
So in a way, selling out actually allowed them to remain more ‘indie’ then they otherwise might have been.
You can only declare losses as a band on your income taxes for so long.
Honestly, turning on a band you are a fan of for appearing on a popular television show (whose 25 year old creator happens to be a superfan of said band ) is every bit as shallow and uninformed as liking a band because of their haircuts, or peer pressure or a pitchfork review. In the instance of the OC, part of the shows cache is that it features (typically) good music that realistically represents the tastes of the fictional characters. Sometimes this includes bands you migh already like… I would assume this is the point. As for you cowboy dave or funboy bill or whatever your handle is, faux indie points of moral superiority are a dime a dozen when you are one of a million unknown college rock bands. In the event anyone ever asks you to do anything, I would certainly hope you’d stick to your oddly moralisitc credo, and also avoid playing on any corporate sponsored tours, clear channel owned radio staions or soul draining monopolistic viacom television outlets, not to mention your dreaded “Bait Shop”.
hey – been a while. and i’m a pretty big loser. this is really my last post for real. don’t want any internet geeks thinking i’m not a man of my word
if there’s one point i can make it’s that if you don’t believe in something then one of the biggest things you can do is often simply shun it
that was basically my point. the fact that people think everything from using plastic to watching the oc is an okay thing to do is in direct correlation (spelling?) with the sad state of the world. i guess the fact that i ride a bike instead of driving a bmw is as good as an example as any for the type of simple sacrifices i think are worth making to combat negative rubbish. the fact that people do all these things that are so commonplace and never question is what this conversation can be boiled down to. couple that notion with capitalism and voilla! : corporate media/music industry. if you want to argue death cab is aware and in the right or at least not the wrong because they’re making a smart decision i say it would be smarter if the world stopped eating at mcdonald’s. we’d reclaim some regional character. when you pull over in iowa you’d be at a mom and pop joint and in hong kong you could eat chinese food without looking down the street at golden arches. wouldn’t hurt world wellness a bit either
go read enrich fromm’s “the sane society” or just kill yourselves is my best advice. you’ll have less of a negative footprint than if you hang around for the oc that way. i’m sure this all sounds radical and wild to your folks but i remember being told in kindergarten:
it’s better to leave anything you find in a more positive state than when you found it than to leave it worse. it’s not that hard either
now proceed in trivializing my wisdom in excuses to continue negatively impacting the world around you in an effort to maintain a “normal” life or else to satisfy “needs” for entertainment, plastic, whatever that capitalists and idiots invented for you
peace
It is as simple as this, there is no need for all the ridiculous arguing. Why would the OC or TV appearances or anything of this nature effect whether or not you like the music? It is still all the same, before and after certain happenings in the advertisement business.