In a new interview with Faster Louder, Ariel Pink confirmed that he’s working on Madonna’s follow-up to 2012’s MDNA, and he has some pretty harsh words for the pop icon. He makes it clear that while he’s a fan of Madonna’s first album, he doesn’t care for much else, especially the EDM-focused approach of MDNA:

“Interscope are calling me to help write Madonna’s record. They need something edgy. They need songwriting. She can’t just have her Avicii, her producers or whatever, come up with a new techno jam for her to gyrate to and pretend that she’s 20 years old. They actually need songs. I’m partly responsible for that return-to-values thing.”

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“I guess it’s called ‘throwback,’ but the first record was so good because of the songs. It’s been a downward slide [since] … ‘Ray of Light’ is not cool. And all the other stuff she’s done after that, it’s not like it matters. It really shows a drain of values. People need more substance in their mac-and-cheese. People need more sugar or something.”

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“It’s not because of her age. It’s because of the things that she thinks she needs to do to stay in her narcissistic domination of the world. Which is totally hers to have. But it’s about not just being a yes person. I’m sure Interscope signed her like, ‘Okay, the last record didn’t do so well. We gotta do something about this. We’re gonna get all new songwriters together and we’re gonna try to come up with this thing. ‘Cause she needs help with this.’ And she’s happy to let them do that for her.”

Madonna is also working with Diplo, Blood Diamonds, and DJ Dahi on the album.

Hear Pink’s 2007 cover of Madonna’s “Everybody” below.

Ariel Pink’s Pom pom is out 11/18 via 4AD.