Last night Jay-Z kicked off his Glastonbury headline set with what we hope will be the final word in this ongoing Oasis feud. A few months back, Noel Gallagher claimed it was “wrong” to feature hip-hop at the fest. Jay-Z responded by defending the legitimacy of his art form. The Sun pointed out that Oasis are UK festival royalty and Jay-Z is a former New York drug dealer. Wha?
Pre-show, Jay spoke to Radio 1, saying, “If Noel Gallagher saw me perform … he wouldn’t say that.”
Then, the moment of truth. Jay strapped on a guitar and mockingly sang (sort of) and strummed (not really) along to Oasis’s biggest hit.
And yes that was “99 Problems” given an AC/DC makeover. So, in the end, everyone won? Except this guy.
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i think all parties involved would agree that adding another verse about gallagher to “99 problems” would have worked.
i personally prefer “99 problems here” from the slack album, but whatev.
I wish I was the greatest rapper of all-time living today.
JZ IS A BA FTW LOL
When I first heard this, I thought it was absolutely terrible and that Jay-Z should never “sing” again. Then, I realized what he was doing. BRILLIANT. A well-played “fuck you,” Mr. Z. Well-played.
LOL! I wonder how Noel is gunna answear to that. Maybe a cover for 99 problems?
I’m at Glastombury right now and Jay Z was amazing last night.
When I saw this live (I wasn’t actually there obviously), I thought it was a pretty brilliant move; funny, quite insulting, but also pretty classy.
oh man i love jay-z
that’s awesome!
I’m not really a big Jay-Z fan, but I must say, that was awesome. Well played, Jay-Z, well played.
is a single note in tune? who cares. it’s funnier this way.
I think that was the point. Gallagher was questioning the validity of hip-hop as an art form, basically saying that people like Jay-Z are not “real” musicians. Hence Jay-Z doing a tuneless version of an Oasis song. He was taking the piss, as the English say.
FUCKING COOL. WAY TO GO HOV
Jay Z is too fucking cool. also, that 99 problems is *blistering*.
proof that you DON’T need to be musically gifted to be a rapper.
tonedeaf people all over the world are rejoicing.
you miss the real point though. this wasn’t about singing, it was about writing. Jay Z steps up to the mic at a massive festival, you expect him to say some crazy shit. and then, just think about the lyrics to ‘Wonderwall’ in comparison to what you expected him to say. if Noel can say rap’s not real music, Jay Z can show him up, as an artist, on his home turf no less.
your move, noel
heh, that was pretty sly
Ironically Wonderwall actually comes off as a stronger song from this move. Sure he’s throwing it in their faces, but it speaks well of Oasis that the song is versatile enough to adapt to the new meaning (love lyrics of the verses work just as well as a dis due to their ambiguity; crowd sings “you’re gonna be the one that saves me” to Jay-Z).
Of course hip-hop would have gotten a little more credibility if they hadn’t played the actual Oasis track and had Jay-Z sing along. I believe that is commonly referred to as Karaoke, which is more and more commonly becoming synonymous with hip-hop.
This is what we call, getting OWNED. Plain and simple.
haha it was kinda awesome but Noel still has a point, he’s my favorite asshole.
whats with rappers wearing sunglasses indoors and at night?
Hahah he got served. The whole crowd told it.
haha good job jayz
thats the way to say “HAHA IN YOUR FACE.”
Rapping and singing are two entirely different artforms. Using the example of a rapper intentionally butchering a song written for someone else’s voice as an example of a lack of musical talent in rap is ridiculous and very flawed logic.
Well played, Jay-Z. Well played.
The greatest rapper of all time! (at Glastonbury)
he should have smashed the hell out of that guitar afterwards – would have been a deal sealer.
Although the guitarist he borrowed it from would not have been amused.
Psh, Jay would just make it rain on the guitarist and call it a day.
He is the greatest rapper in the world, supposedly, but he ruined 2 classics, Wonderwall and Back in Black. Strangely he managed to make 99 Problems better by using Back in Black.
it just goes to show that you can smack bitches and fuck hoes to Oasis too. Go women!!!
the crowd was singing along with it i dont know if the crowd “told it”
As a casual observer, it seemed like the rabid cheers and whatever the Hell they were chanting (someone who was there help me out here) were blatant attempts to show they were in on the joke. Just a hunch.
Ha. I absolutely love the idea, but he could have spent some time coming up with a better cover. I’m sure he could have done better. He’s Jay-Z.
i thought he looked like a moron holding that guitar while he tried to sing along. he didn’t even know the words. he could have done much better. good idea. bad execution.
Looks like Noel was proven right. Festival didn’t sell out for the first time in years. Having Hip Hop on Saturday night when it was prob better off having the likes of Radiohead, Coldplay or Muse perform.
Even when Oasis doesn’t appear at Glastonbury, they still steal the show. I wonder what Jay-Z would have done without all this Gallagher hype?
And the shitty economy would have nothing to do with that, would it? One act is not going to make a festival a sellout or not.
jay z should not be the one to try and defend hip hop as an artform because he’s a shitty rapper.
Would have been good if Jay-Z played a great, or even merely passable, cover that would have proven that Oasis’ music isn’t anything special. But, he just sang poorly over a recording of the Oasis song.
If he tried to do something like this I would have respected him,.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uc2vvQx-ibM
Noel FTW
I cannot believe how many of you pinheads missed the point … IT WASN’T SUPPOSED TO BE SOME MINDBLOWINGLY BRILLIANT WONDERWALL COVER … HE CARRIED – NOT PLAYED MIND YOU – A GUITAR BECAUSE OF GALLAGHER’S DUMB ASSERTION THAT GLASTONBURY IS SOME KIND OF SACRED GUITAR-BASED DOMAIN, AND THEN DID AN “I’M ALMOST PAYING ATTENTION VERSION” OF AN OASIS SONG … Steve, you’re a fuckwit – “bitches and hoes” – evolve a little. And finally, Lester – Jay-Z is “a shitty rapper” – really? Tell the truth, you haven’t been the same since Das EFX broke up …
PS – The FLEET FOXES record is brilliant.
Noel Wins…Noel Wins!
I’m not convinced that Jay-Z put as much thought into it as have my fellow commentors above me. Possibly a spur of the moment, ‘wouldn’t it be funny if you did…’ kind of thing?
all he did was prove he couldn’t pull it off. any other point kinda gets lost inside ugliness of it.
Annie, he pulled off what he was going for perfectly. It was a big fuck you back to yet another trad-obsessed rock and roller implying that rap is inferior to rock, and has no place on the same stage. Jay-Z was simply, viciously ridiculing the guy and his mindset, showing that he didn’t respect him enough to take his criticism or his music seriously, and that he rejected the terms of the argument–a point driven home by the ferocious version of 99 Problems (a great rap song, and a great rock song) that followed. Noel may think those years of mutually beneficial slap-fighting and hair-pulling between him and Damon Albarn made him a tough guy, but Jay ate him alive without even trying.
if he was trying to come off as a douche without talent then yes he sure did. i wont defend anyone from oasis as they are cunts, but still, jay-z shouldn’t try to pass his music off as high art. that is far from what it is.
*WHOOSH!*
Astonishing how many people in this thread completely missed the point. It turns out that Jay-z is not only smarter and funnier than Oasis, he’s also smarter and funnier than stereogum.
not even stereogum per se, just the humorless, overly-earnest half of the indie rock kook kidz klub.
Jay-Z came off lame. If he doesn’t sample, he has NOTHING! I really hope Oasis headlines Glastonbury next year but the truth is they don’t even need it. They could throw their own concert again in a soccer stadium and get 100,000 to turn up.
This is how you own a band,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlM_E2PCbzQ
Courtesy of Noel Gallagher.
OK, that was admittedly kind of funny. I don’t think he “owned” anyone, but it was amusing.
I think it’s hilarious that Oasis try to claim that hip-hop is an invalid form of music
All THEY do is sample Beatles songs. Poorly.
Name one song Oasis sampled from The Beatles? They are more Who and Rolling Stones than The Beatles.
that’s shitty of the sun to say. not evryone can be perfect from the time they’re born. lily allen’s a former drug dealer and pretty proud of it but i doubt they’d bring that up in a similar argument.
Liam,
If you take away Oasis’ instruments, they’re nothing as well. See how that works?
Maybe they could be a barbershop quartet then? Or buy a sampler.
Those stupid brits didn’t even deserve to be graced with his presence.
What’s a Jay-Z anyway?
Bob, but playing an instrument is a valid form of musicianship, whereas sampling is taking somebody else’s music and trying to pass it off as your own creative thought.
Plus, if you took Oasis’ instruments away they would probably be able to do some form of acapella. There are four of them and they are talented musicians, with the exception of Liam who is good but not great.
Alan,
Sampling involves taking pre-recorded music and arranging into new rhythmic and harmonic patterns. A sampler is a musical instrument, just like a guitar or drumset.
Oh, you mean like taking a DaVinci and slapping some new paint on top of it?
The problem is pre-recorded music. It is fine if that person created the music, but they take a song from somebody else. I am reminded of the recent sample of Feist’s Gatekeeper by Kanye West in a session he was producing. It is just the original song rapped over. Hip hop as high art? A sampler is not a musical instrument. It can be used to create compelling new forms of music, such as Daydreamin’ by Lupe Fiasco, but it is not an instrument.
If they were to re-record the music they want to sample I would be a little more impressed, but it’d still be taking somebody else’s idea.
Alan, in regards to your Mona Lisa suggestion- It’s been done.
Marcel Duchamp, 1919. A painting called L.H.O.O.Q. Look it up.
Other people’s work is used all the time in the visual arts. How else would you describe Andy Warhol’s ENTIRE. CAREER? Next time you try to bring in outside examples to enhance your argument you may want to make sure you know something about it. Plus, emotional appeal is an effective argumentative technique.
Is that Danger Mouse playing keyboards?
Alan,
Your personal definition of what makes something a musical instrument is quite different from the dictionary’s.
Def. musical instrument
noun
any of various devices or contrivances that can be used to produce musical tones or sounds
A sampler, turntable, or even tape deck produces musical tones or sounds. A producer alters those tones and sounds to produce new tones and sounds. Even if the track were to be played back in it’s entirety without manipulation, the performer is altering the sound and context of the original material by rapping over it.
Turntables, tape decks, samplers make musical tones?
Not really. Unless you consider the sound of pushing buttons music (the actual clicking sound of depressing a play button for example).
Think of those things you mentioned as being more like the musicians than the instruments. In this analogy, the instruments are more like the records, cassette tapes or samples. But even then, either one is useless without the other (for the purpose of making music).
This is really shortsighted logic. A guitar is worthless without strings that someone else made, needless to say that someone else invented and built that guitar. Hell, the vibrations of the strings are worthless without air to be moved. And an electric guitar is even more worthless without an amplifier, and complete junk without the infrastructure of a nationwide power grid to supply the needed electricity to run the amp (which is all the work of other people). Besides, the guitar is probably tuned to standard tuning (which someone else created), is playing an Asus4 (which someone else devised) during a chorus (which is probably some nugget of a conversation the singer overheard) while standing on a stage (once again, musicians stole this from the theatre).
See how this argument’s going to turn out? You need to open your mind, *EVERY* musician steals other music. Every single one of them. As has been said time and time again: talent imitates, genius steals (as a matter of fact, I’m almost sure I’ve heard Noel or Liam say *precisely* the same thing). Unless they’re playing their own instrument they created themselves, according to a degree of tones they devised themselves (no majors, minors, lydians, etc, those were ALL “written” by someone else), in an arrangement that’s completely uninspired by any previous works. There’s simply no such thing as completely original music. Music is not a spectrum of individual inventions, it’s a dialogue between listeners. Musicians are merely specialized listeners.
It’s like this, an author isn’t expected to make up words when he writes a book, right? He’s supposed to use words that others in the culture created to say what he has to say. Music is no different. Regardless of what the RIAA wants you to believe, music is *not* a resource. It’s just conversation at varying tones, intervals, volumes, and rhythm. Stop being an instrument elitist and really *embrace* music for what it is: Sound.
I honestly have no idea what that dissertation’s thesis amounted to. At what point did I become an instrument elitist? I agree and made the same point you make about all the elements needing each other and none being more important than any other.
I honestly have no clue as to what you are trying to reveal to me except that you are entirely too worked up about a statement or opinion I never expressed.
Calm down, friend. Obama will be in office soon and everyone will live happily ever after.
Noel said himself, he was grotesquely misquoted from his interview, he didn’t intend to slam Jay-Z personally. The media just take some things way out of context and make a huge storm out of it; this has happened so many times before. Notice that the Sun or whatever load of junk first blew this story up as an argument failed to mention that Noel also said, “Jay-Z’s a cool guy” etc., can’t remember the exact wording but i heard the interview.
I feel like it’s cool that Jay-Z mocked Oasis, but the whole delivery of it was just lame. It just didn’t seem real…and why does what Noel Gallagher says matter to Jay-Z so much? Why not just do your thing and not give a crap what he said?
The Greatest Rapper Alive: 1
Redneck racists from Manchester: 0
I’ll ask what someone else did, what the fuck is a JayZ?
“…why does what Noel Gallagher says matter to Jay-Z so much? Why not just do your thing and not give a crap what he said?”
Yes, because it’s not like there’s any tradition of artists arguing with other in rap music, manufactured or otherwise.
What planet do some of the commenters here hail from? is it really possible to be that ignorant of one of the world’s dominant music forms over the last thirty years?
If only there were some kind of easily accessible device where people unfamiliar with Jay Z might be able to look up information about him, listen to his music or even watch clips of him performing.
What is with the stupid argument that a band or artist’s title must exist as a noun to offer the band or artist any musical credibility.
Someone else said it – Jay-Z 1, UK rednecks 0. Didn’t even know the UK had rednecks but now I’ve seen they’re everywhere, not just in the states.
For all haters of rap music and hip-hop, here’s a real easy correlation to let you sleep easy at night.
Rap music is simply “Black Superhero Music.” Jay-Z said this, not me. It any of you ever spent a day on foot walking around the projects, neighborhoods, and communities spawning rap music you’d understand why Black Superheroes are desperately needed. And no, the Beatles, The Who, and The Stones don’t speak to everybody.
Separately, Jay-Z is one hell of a storyteller.
Rapping may be his vehicle, but the man is nothing more than an educated and articulate storyteller, one with a great sense of reason, and a great sense of irony.
And storytelling aside, Jay-Z offers up a damn good time, and a damn good smile through his music. If piss-ant, shaggy hair, rainy day navel gazing is your thing, it’s understandable why you’d attempt to bash an musician based on his choice of musical creation boxes.
Someone else said it earlier, Jay-Z not only shows he’s smarter than Oasis but also smarter than stereogum as well.
My thing is calling women nappy headed bitches and hoes. Then smacking them. Then taking my nine and shooting them. Oh, I forgot, I have to pimp them out first – you know, make them actually BE hoes. Then I can be a pimp, which is good.
But hip-hop is really good for women, I’m convinced of that.
seems like writing a new song to rap over would be more interesting, but thats just me.
using somebody elses music just seems lazy, but maybe thats because ive spent the last ten years trying to learn how to play instruments and become a skilled musician. computer programming has never been very appealing to my soul.
as for slappin the dumb fuckin bitch while she ridin my fuckin BIG fuckin fuck that bitch i fuckin shoot that fuckin shit fucin fuck, whatever.
So the human voice is not an instrument? Try telling that to….oh, I don’t know, anybody who knows anything about music?
Jay-Z is often called the best because he has one of the best musical instruments in his genre. What’s so hard to understand about that, even in your horse shit, rockist terms?
And did someone just use Diddy as a reason to discredit rap? I most be smoking too much pot….
Ok, so the funniest story I’ve ever heard regarding this old argument is from when Jimmy Page and P Diddy where out whoring around that awful Kashmir remake, and Jimmy says to P before the show, ” How about we make this fatter, drop it down a step or so, from E to D, make it work better for your voice?” to which Diddy replies, “Yo man, I don’t know nothin about no E or no D!” … This is a man at the “top” of a “music” industry, the cream of a proverbial crop, and he’s almost happily admitting, with great pride, that he knows next to nothing about the creation of music.
…Oh, and there’s a reason people refer to the Roots as a hip hop act that plays their own instruments. I’d bet the farm that Glastonbury would be honored to have them.
kashmirs already in D?
Corey, if you have spent the last ten years learning to play instruments and have not yet realized that the actual technical expertise involved in playing an instrument is useful only because it allows you to attain a particular means of expression, you should reexamine your relationship with music. Time spent practicing instruments is valuable only inasmuch as it affects the musical end-product. This means that the technical process Jay-Z uses to express himself is unimportant. He may rely on sampling, but he still creates brilliant, moving music with an appeal entirely independent from the source material sampled in some of his songs. For whatever reason, Jay-Z is able to beautifully and eloquently express himself without the musical training unavailable to him as a child of the Marcy projects.
When people make comments about rap and say “quote” lyrics about “fuck this bitch, ima fuck, fuck hoes, pimp fuck” etc. it just discredits their argument.
While I agree there are many rappers who don’t try to put any thought in to their songs other than the thought of making the most money possible, there are others who actually tell stories, as many posters have said before.
Jay is an AMAZING storyteller. Listen to “American Gangster.” He tells his life story, literally, through a whole album. Listen to most of Kanye’s songs. Kanye raps about things that some people are afraid to even talk about, let alone make a commercial song about. Listen to Mos Def, Common. Talib Kweli, Lupe Fiasco, Dead Prez and rappers like this. They tell god damn stories. And artists like Biggie and Pac did the same things. Sure, Diddy might not know what the hell Jimmy Paige was talking about, but NO ONE, and I repeat NO ONE who has ever listened to rap will ever tell you that as far as lyrics go, that Diddy is in the top 50 rappers of all time.
Plain and simple, Jay was just trying to make light of the whole situation. His voice was off-key? No shit. He was playing on the fact that Noel said he’s not an artist. Truth be told, if Jay would have listened to the whole song, sat there for about 3 minutes, drew up some lyrics in his head to insult Oasis…he would have absolutely KILLED THEM.
Basically, it’s different strokes, for different folks. If you don’t like rap, don’t listen to it. Don’t spend time writing about it on a message board. Throw on the “…Morning Glory” on ur iPod when Jay goes on stage, or guy take a hit or buy a beer and ignore him. Don’t like it, don’t listen…that simple….
And hey, at the end of the day, Jay’s going to bed with Beyonce, Noel and the rest of the Oasis are going to bed with models, and we’re here arguing about their music….What’s the point? Right?
When a thread about rap starts floating allegations that hip hop artists are lazy thieves, and that rap isn’t music but “music,” you know you’ve crossed over into racist trolling territory.
You didn’t know the U.K. had racists? WOW!!!!! you are a moron. Get out a little!
While I may be a moron, I’m pretty well aware of the existence of racists just about everywhere. A group of kids at my local high school–in a little Vermont town–just got expelled for organizing something called the Redneck Nigger Hanging Association and intimidating the handful of minorities in the school.
I was just pointing out its presence on this thread, and not just in the bullshit pretend rap lyrics, but in the attitudes that cause people to dismiss hip hop as not music, and people like Jay Z as not appropriate to play Glastonbury.
hip-hop in general (not all of it) has created a culture that makes it okay to refer to women as hoes, nappy headed bitches etc. It has made the word “pimp” something to aspire to. Did we forget what a pimp really is? How is that good for women? It’s glorified gun-culture more than even Hollywood movies have. It makes heroes out of scum who shoot people , do drugs, and then “rap” about it. It has assured that certain parts of our society will continue the cycle of poverty. When even Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are on a crusade to have rappers stop the destructive culture they’ve helped to create, you know it’s real. This isn’t a racist white guy saying it, it’s coming from Black Leaders. Don Imus was just repeating what hip-hop made cool – referring to nappy headed hoes in a stupid attempt to be cool. And BTW, before you call me a racist, I’m married to a black woman. Or try calling Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson racists.
And read from a comment above “Truth be told, if Jay would have listened to the whole song, sat there for about 3 minutes, drew up some lyrics in his head to insult Oasis…he would have absolutely KILLED THEM.” So that’s what’s passes as the level of your talent as rapper – your ability to insult someone to a greater degree? How friggin pathetic. Trust me, I can insult any of these no-brain assholes to a degree that they can’t possibly touch. But that’s not talent.
I’ll agree with what was said above by a hip-hop fan though, don’t listen to it. Believe me, I don’t.
jay z is my hero.
I?ve got 99 Problems and this shit is one. Lil? Wayne is also guilty of misusing a guitar and being a rapper.
The problem with artists like Jay-Z, who is probably a nice enough guy in real life, is that he presents music as a means of corporate crossover which tends to piss a lot of people off. Jay-Z has a plethora of pretty good jams. No question he can rock a stage. But he brings that CEO attitude on stage with him and presents it through his music which is totally anti- whatever a festival like Glastonbury is supposed to represent…I mean, Oasis has a label but they don’t say ” big brother in the house”" before the beginning of every song. Jay-Z singing “99 problems but a bitch aint one” is not really a true statement. It’s more like an impersonation of someone he wishes he was still. Wonderwall is a bit dated, but how many people in history have gotten laid to that song? It’s anthemic, perfect festival music, and really was the best part of JAY Z’s set.
i’m not sure how he could have handled this better–brilliant, and far more rock ‘n’ roll than anything oasis has done, wrt attitude–punk as fuck.
jay-z still has it, no question.
That was great, I give him props for that. He took the high road and was respectful to Oasis…he definitely knows how to command the crowd too. I liked his performance of Song Cry at the festival – you can check it out at freshmusicdaily.com
no longer available : (
Man this whole argument is just ridiculous. People complaining that Hip hop is not a legitamate music form for Glastonbury should stop fucking complaining about it, go there and realise that most of the smaller (and damn amazing) stages play anything from hip hop, soul, jazz and pretty much anything else inbetween. The JOY of Glastonbury is its diversity, and that its not full of uptight musical bastards. Yea it didn’t sell OUT, it was what, 1000 or so tickets short? God knows how many it did sell, but I can’t think of any other festival that would sell as much as Glasto did.
I was at the Jay-Z slot, and it was fucking incredible. And the crowd fucking loved it. Of all the acts I saw over the weekend HE was they guy everyone was talking about. Not because he of what he did concerning Noel, but because he was simply fucking incredible, he had the whole crowd eating out the palm of his hand it was pure talent and I am proud to say I was there.
The guitar musicpurite thing is so irratating, people who think that way are just being ridiculous, caused all they’r edoing is letting themselves lose out on some damn good music. Not that I don’t love “guitar music” (man I hate saying that, what a ridiculous statement) but people need to open there eyes about the whole thing. And for as good as these guitar led bands are, I hear nobody saying how good the other two headliners were (KoL and the Verve, both guitar based bands) and I didn’t throughout the whole festival.
To Chicago, I understand what you mean about saying Hiphop is often used as method of promotion, but JayZ didn’t mention any of his other works throughout the show. It was just a pack of hits-my friends (one of whom before Glasto wasn’t even sure who JayZ was) knew pretty much every song, same as fans like myself. I think he knew this wasn’t an ordinary show so he toned down alot of the things he would do fo a purely fan based show of his own.
The man came on stage and said “In case you don’t know, My name is Jay Z and Im pretty fucking awesome” – and he fucking was.
This is just another excuse for close minded people to complain about forms of music just because they dont like it – often without giving it a chance
8=====>~~~~~~~
Hey all i love muise and love song and rock
folks – this was entertainment. beef is at the core of hip-hop, and mr. carter played it perfectly.If you watch the whole set it’s a masterclass in entertainment and working a crowd. In this, jay is stronger than 99.9% of bands covered on stereogum. and if you want depth, go for the rhyme about amy winehouse or he sean bell reference later in the set. this set wiped the floor with most of the glastonbury stuff I’ve seen.
im one of the biggest oasis fans in the world… a bit crazy I’d say (seen them 9 times… flown to different countries to see those damn gallaghers) … but damn, well played hova. I want to see noel strike back
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92GM851j20k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG_rEqCivn4
The link was hillarious