Are American Listeners Too Concerned With "Cool"?
The AP's recent exploration of whether Jake Shears and Ana Matronic's band of dancing divas could ever have the success States side that they enjoy in Europe was awesome if only for this Babydaddy quip:
People think that you have huge success in one country that that must translate everywhere else. But look at David Hasselhoff.That sense of humor, along with solid '70s disco-pop stylings makes the Scissor Sisters a good time for sure. But the fabulosity is admittedly on high with the group, and America just doesn't seem to wanna bite. The Sisters' debut was a 2.5 million seller in the UK, the country's biggest selling record that year; compare that to 300,000 in the US. The trend continued with sales of this year's Ta-Dah, which debuted at #1 in Britain but a measly #19 here. And NME editor Alex Needham thinks he's got it figured, calling out US music fans:
In America, rock authenticity is a really important thing, whereas in Britain, there aren't so many hang-ups like 'Is it cool to like this?'We here in cyber-music land obviously know that there's some truth to American listeners' preoccupation with the perceived "cool" of the artists they listen to, but is that really what's to blame with Scissor Sisters? What do you think is the largest obstacle to their success? And is it fair to call out Yanks vis a vis Brits for being too hung-up on "cool"? In closing, we'd just like to say, "Deerhoof and Of Montreal." 'Cause they're cool.
Posted at 2:17 PM
Tags: Scissor Sisters
We don't like Scissor Sisters because of our preoccupation with "straight." Not trying to be politically incorrect, but mainstream Americans just don't embrace gay like that.
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I think we don't like Scissors Sisters because the music is bad. Of Montreal is the most flamboyant "straight" band out there, and they are pretty accepted. For being straight. Wait.
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There's something amusing about the NME Editor accusing someone else of having hang-ups about looking cool. ... can't quite put my finger on it...
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For evidence of America's preoccupation with percieved "cool," look at comments on any recent Stereogum Britney post.
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I think Americans are real good at categorizing bands and placing them into a specific genre. In the Scissor Sisters case its "I've already heard a band like that" and they move on without giving the band a chance.
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Americans don't like our rock stars too "gay." Elton John and Freddie Mercury never came out until they were firmly established with "great success" (to quote Borat). Even today, Ricky Martin and "Claykin" put on the charade of straightitude when EVERYONE knows they're not, for fear of hurting sales.
I personally am a straight male rock fan who thinks the 2 Scissor Sisters albums are among the 10-or-so best "classic rock" albums of the past 5 years. Yeah they mix some electronic stuff and quite a few disco elements into their mix, but essentially their greatness musically lies in writing WAY better rock-style songs than 99% of the bands out there. I also really dig their over-the-top image and think that kinda creative flamboyantness is sorely missing from music today.
It sucks they aren't bigger in the U.S., but really, WHO CARES? They're HUGE in Europe and that's enough for them to keep on keepin on ... Shit! Maybe that ungrateful elitist talentless bitch Gwyneth Paltrow was (gulp!) RIGHT!
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Has to do much more with the mainstream popularity of dance-oriented music in the UK and Europe.
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Americans don't like our rock stars too "gay." Elton John and Freddie Mercury never came out until they were firmly established with "great success" (to quote Borat). Even today, Ricky Martin and "Claykin" put on the charade of straightitude when EVERYONE knows they're not, for fear of hurting sales.
I personally am a straight male rock fan who thinks the 2 Scissor Sisters albums are among the 10-or-so best "classic rock" albums of the past 5 years. Yeah they mix some electronic stuff and quite a few disco elements into their mix, but essentially their greatness musically lies in writing WAY better rock-style songs than 99% of the bands out there. I also really dig their over-the-top image and think that kinda creative flamboyantness is sorely missing from music today.
It sucks they aren't bigger in the U.S., but really, WHO CARES? They're HUGE in Europe and that's enough for them to keep on keepin on ... Shit! Maybe that ungrateful elitist talentless bitch Gwyneth Paltrow was (gulp!) RIGHT!
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It's not a matter of "cool" and "uncool," it's a matter of "suck" and "not suck."
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This article is written in some bizarro universe because in reality the Scissor Sisters are not a very good band yet they have managed to sell records based on a hype/cool-factor alone.
Honestly, anyone here say they bought a Scissor Sister album for the musicianship???
The idea of listening to an entire record of someone singing in falsetto makes me want to hit myself in the face with a shovel. It would be hard to take even from a truly gifted singer like Jeff Buckley let alone a clown like Shears.
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It's not a matter of "cool" and "uncool," it's a matter of "suck" and "not suck."
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Americans, these days, just can't seem to embrace melodic, lyric driven, sexually omnivorous dance music however Pop perfect it might be. Flamboyance that isn't presented with a nudge and a wink seems lost on this current generation musical youth. Ziggy era Bowie, "I Wanna Be Your Lover" era Prince, even Little Richard doing "Good Golly Miss Molly" would seem to throw off the music buying audience these days. That Nickleback is the biggest selling rock group of the year, and that record buyers treat DOUGHTRY to a feast at the top of the charts, while pure Pop like Scissor Sisters are mostly written about in conjunction to their lead singer's sexuality and not his songcraft or musical skills....says all one needs to say. This isn't an issue of "credibility" but of sexuality, and a general inability of many American record buyers to own a record that may mark them as "gay" or even a little "bi".
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It seems like everyone's pretty quick to jump on the homophobe bandwagon by way of explanation. But what about the fact that American radio doesn't play music like this? I mean, were Scissor Sisters every played on The OC or Gray's Anatomy? That seems to be the only place that non-mainstream acts can get heard these days.
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i agree with loz. i call bullshit on nme.
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Scissor Sisters performed on 'Dancing with the Stars', I'd say that's pretty mainstream exposure.
I agree with a previous post, I think it has to do with the more electronica based music being more popular in England/Europe.
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Scissor Sisters performed on 'Dancing with the Stars', I'd say that's pretty mainstream exposure.
I agree with a previous post, I think it has to do with the more electronica based music being more popular in England/Europe.
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I've listened to their music. I'm not a fan, and it doesn't have anything to do with being cool. I'm a U2 fan and that puts me in the "uncool" catagory.
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The majority of popular music in America is highly uncool. I don't know what they're talking about. Look at Phil Fucking Collins. Damn.
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It's their sense of humor more than anything.
Do you see anything remotely playful or ironic in the American top ten?
And let's be realistic. The Scissor Sisters are still successful in the States. 300,000 in the US is more than even the biggest "indie" success stories.
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I think the UK cares a lot more about pop music than the US in general. The UK also loves to buy things (hence the continued existence of the singles chart) more than we stealing varmints.
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I'd argue that the Scissor Sisters are popular in Europe because of their schtick, not because they have great music. If their hooks were undeniable I think their success would translate over here to some degree. However, since they peddle in gimmicks, and their gimmick is distinctly European, it makes sense that they don't move a lot of units across the pond.
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I'm sorry, but Hinder sells buttloads of records and they are mos def not "cool".
Rock authenticity? I don't know what that means.
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Scissor Sisters are a novelty act. The sooner the Brits realize that, the better.
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hinder-lips of an anger playing in the background
****shutters***
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The people that ask the question, "is this cool?", are not the listeners who push an album to number 1. It's never been cool to like Hinder.
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Well, another poorly edited Pitchfork piece. "Americans doesn't seem to wanna bite" because the food isn't presented to them. UK mags slap all kinds of music in their thick pages, on their various live music shows (that are admittedly slowly going by the wayside), and even on their radios. It's the same old thing -- most people have to have stuff shoved in their face, and if you want to hear the Scissor Sisters (aside from, um, spending 11+ geekish hours a day on a computer), you'll have a hard time coming across it. There are simply NO radio program formats employed in the U.S. today that play the Scissor Sisters, or much anything else beyond and Stefani or Big & Rich. It's a much longer story than that, but that's a big part of it. Plus there's the Brits long, sometimes useful sometimes ridiculous, relationship with "the single," which has never been as big a deal over here.
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I meant Stereogum, of course. Ha ha!!!
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It probably has a lot to do with radio support in the US. Airplay = album sales. There are hardly any true "pop" stations anymore. The CHR format which is essentially the top 40 (which is really about 15 to 20 of the top 40 at any one time) is dominated by crappy hip-hop and cock rock. And watch out, it's going to get worse if the FCC further loosens restrictions on media ownership. I don't think it has as much to do with "Is it cool?" but more to do with "Does ClearChannel/Cumulus/Infinity think it will drive up advertising rates?"
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I think no one likes them because they suck. They should have been arrested for that Pink Floyd cover they did. Also, they were on Saturday Night Live. That is pretty big.
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Further evidence of Stereogum's consuming obsession with all things Britney - it's Jake Shears, not Spears.
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One problem the Sisters have had is that they're unabashedly glossy and slick, which is part of what makes what they do so daring in America. Because if something sounds too Pop Perfect -- that is, if it shares the sonic characteristics of what we tend to associated with Top 40 radio -- it's immediately considered suspect. We presume 100 Swedish hitmakers and producers have conspired to sell us a packet of sugar coated crap.
But what's ironic is that Scissor Sisters are totally self-produced and (with the exception of their first single) write their own material. So they're more punk rock/DIY than half of the bands revered across the US blogosphere. Plus their references are more clever than a dozen Girl Talk songs - they're just not samples, they're "allusions" (e.g. the Bee Gees falsetto, Elton honky tonk pianos etc), and for some reason that just ain't cool right now to the tastemakers.
And the gay thing doesn't help.
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"Mary" was a very good song, I'll admit that. But the band is steeped in kitch. It's on the opposite pole from, say, Kiss... Somewhere in there are pretty good songs, but there's also a lot of crap made in service to a gimmick.
Nickelback is not cool. Nickelback is awful. And yet, there is a mash-up that mixes Scissor Sisters with Nickelback's cover of "Saturday Night's Alright For Fighting" and it's pretty darn neat. Maybe the two bands could, y'know, merge into something else...
Or not.
DwD
P.S. The reason why Of Montreal is cool is simply this: the band sounds like indie kids that grew up on The Cars.
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If Americans cared about cool, Nickelback would not be successful. I mean, really, they are not even pretending to be cool.
But I do agree that pop in general, and particularly dance pop, is bigger in Europe. Look at Anastasia. She is a household name in Europe, and in the US, the most you'll get is "oh that chick that was on Ally McBeal that one time! So she's still singing?". Her case is much more obvious than the Scissor Sisters, if you want to talk about an American act that is only successful in Europe.
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It could have something to do with their Kylie Minogue work.
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for some reason it's now cool for the indie crowd to dig justin timberlake. i don't consider myself part of the whole indie movement, but i think he's on the same shitty level as nickelback and hinder.
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Matt, but while the shitness may be equivalent to Nickelback, Justin is trying to be cool by teaming up with Timbaland. Nickelback aren't even trying.
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Man, y'all Americans need to quit with the self-flagellation. This is simply due to the Scissor Sisters making music that Brits like. Americans don't like novelty, the English do (why do you think Crazy Frog bricked in America? Las Ketchup? Bob the motherfucking Builder?)
The British like this sort of fey pop dance. The Scissor Sisters might as well be the American Robbie Williams as far as the majority of their audience is concerned. And their take on sexuality is far more in tune with British sensibilities. Scissor Sisters employ the "wink-wink, nudge-nudge" sexuality that appeals to the British desire not to confront sex directly. Americans, from "Jack U Off" to "Ms. New Booty" and "Wait," just tell it like it is, no messing around with giggly "know what I mean?" shit.
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Scissor Sisters have one good single per album. Why would I buy an album that I know I will only listen to one song from. I just buy the singles on itunes.
NEXT SONG (the d)
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I can't stand the Scissor Sisters, personally, but it made me chortle hard to hear an NME editor say Americans are obsessed with what's 'cool'. I mean NME is a magazine especially for those teenagers who want to know what's 'cool' without actually listening to the music themselves.
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This point has already been made, but not entirely: the NME publishes a yearly cool list. So for their editor to say that the Americans are obsessed with cool is a double standard. Also I'd say the "British desire to not confront sex directly" as Jonathan puts it is a result of a far more mature and open relationship to sex. Prince aside, America is a far more repressed and puritanical country when it comes to sex. That's why it's all over your media. Sigh.
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americans think kylie minogue is lame and jamiroquai are corny when all of europe loves them and theyre amazing to dance to. the majority of americans' tastes in music is totally biased and definitely based on 'success' and what is perceived as 'cool' to the consensus
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americans think kylie minogue is lame and jamiroquai are corny when all of europe loves them and theyre amazing to dance to. the majority of americans' tastes in music is totally biased and definitely based on 'success' and what is perceived as 'cool' to the consensus
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americans think kylie minogue is lame and jamiroquai are corny when all of europe loves them and theyre amazing to dance to. the majority of americans' tastes in music is totally biased and definitely based on 'success' and what is perceived as 'cool' to the consensus
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americans think kylie minogue is lame and jamiroquai are corny when all of europe loves them and theyre amazing to dance to. the majority of americans' tastes in music is totally biased and definitely based on 'success' and what is perceived as 'cool' to the consensus
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americans think kylie minogue is lame and jamiroquai are corny when all of europe loves them and theyre amazing to dance to. the majority of americans' tastes in music is totally biased and definitely based on 'success' and what is perceived as 'cool' to the consensus
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both the pop and indie cultures differ greatly in britain than they do in america. the pop culture in europe is more open to dancy/campy music while the u.s. pop culture is into grunge throwbacks and poor hip hop. the indie culture in britain i feel doesn't like to be spoon fed as much as the indie hordes in america. bands blow up in england because people like to go and discover stuff at shows. in america, indie stuff blows up because it got a good review in pitchfork. even american bands like the strokes, the white stripes, black rebel motorcycle club, etc. had to go across the atlantic to get and audience and finally got recognized in the states after the europeans raved about them. my theory is that a lot of it is geography. in england you can check out whoever, from whatever scene, in whatever city, and it takes at most a couple of hours to travel there. in the u.s., things are so spread out that you have doldrums for 1000 miles, and then a scene-fucking 5 minute of fame culture in a metropolis like new york city.
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if you like the Scissor Sisters you're gay.
if you don't like the Scissor Sisters, YOU'RE GAY.
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Bollocks, the UK is obsessed with cool, it's just currently "cool" to be "uncool". That, "open minded" and quite probably "abit shameless" for good measure.
"I'm not sure why I've used so many quotation marks".
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"Also I'd say the "British desire to not confront sex directly" as Jonathan puts it is a result of a far more mature and open relationship to sex."
How is acting like a giggling schoolgirl a more mature approach to sex? Let's not get bogged down in stereotypes here; sure, America has a puritcanical streak, but that's not really a part of the people buying pop records.
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We really should get Gwyneth Paltrow to speak out about this issue, since she is the current self-appointed authority on all differences between US and UK.
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Scissor Sisters are excellent. I love both albums. They're very gay, and my friends will make fun of me for liking them, but I don't care.
Go awesome music!
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