Jim DeRogatis Hates Juno
Jim DeRogatis dislikes the Doors, Springsteen, Rolling Stone, and Ryan Adams. We knew all that. He's also not a fan of Juno, the film or its Kimya-heavy soundtrack (From his column: "Sure, Juno gives lip service to loving Iggy and the Stooges and Patti Smith. But there isn't a hint of the anger and lust for life of those pioneering punks in the sort of twee indie-rock that Juno loves.") His Sound Opinions co-host Greg Kot doesn't dig it either, but he seems more forgiving. You can hear the two discuss the soundtrack during a recent Sound Opinions segment focused on the Grammys (they give Herbie Hancock's Joni a slammy) and the best movie soundtracks of all times (The Harder They Come for Greg, The Royal Tenenbaums and that "haunting German chanteuse" Nico for Jim).
The segment's basically an opportunity for Jim, "unapologetically old-school feminist," to continue trashing Juno and its soundtrack, which he's been doing since the beginning of the year. He's been labeled a "feminazi" and has defended himself tenfold. Via his Sun Times blog:
If "feminazi" is not right-wing bravado, I don't know what is. And because Williamson isn't a very good reader, I'll answer the question he poses -- "Why would a feminist hate Juno, a pro-choice movie?" -- one more time, in the simplest language I can muster: "Juno" is not a pro-choice movie. It is an anti-abortion movie masquerading as a pro-choice movie. And one with a lousy soundtrack at that.Much of the ire comes back to Kimya's "barely songs" and her guitar "she can't really play." Well, if they were good enough for The View, they're good enough ... you might have a point, Jim. You can find the MP3 of the show here.
Posted at 2:38 PM
Tags: Jim DeRogatis | The Moldy Peaches
Jim hates Juno, but loves...Chinese food.
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Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....
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good.
that movie sucked.
how much did you guys get paid to plaster Juno ads all over your blog?
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yeah, it did suck really bad. totally not boss or whatever
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Jim is just copying his idol, Lester Bangs, with all of this dissension.
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Thundercats GO!
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"Honest to blog"
Even while the backlash for this movie continues to intensify, it's funny how the criticisms that people have for it - namely the cheeky dialogue - is the same thing it will become even more cult-famous for in that camp sort of way...it's as if the good-vibes backlash is turning inside out to turn the film into its own popular joke..which in some strange way is a good thing...if you see my point...the very same fact that people hate the 'what other kind of shenanigans' type fare is the very same reason it will get beaten to death...let the referencing commence.
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Y'know, if you listen to the segment, I think both Jim and Greg make a pretty strong case for why the Kimya songs don't work, and end up bringing down the soundtrack as a whole. And remember their whole discussion is about what make a great soundtrack ... not what makes a great indie folk compilation album.
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One more thing...I just noticed the 'thundercats go!' comment was left by 'Stripper Turned Writter'....either you had a case of the double-consonant tick with double pp's and double tt's....or you are completely hilarious in the fact that a stripper turned 'writter' would more than likely not spell all that well. Good job Diablo, you devil you.
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How is Juno not pro-choice? The key word is CHOICE... as in, you can CHOOSE whether you want to get an abortion or not. Juno CHOSE not to. End of story. Why is this guy so angry about everything? Dude needs to get over himself and chill.
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perfected fluff at best. that's it's biggest flaw, it's simply not real
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I absolutely love Jim for one simple reason. I don't think he has ever fact checked an article in his life. He is constantly getting huge details incorrect. Gotta respect a man working for a crashing paper who still doesn't care enough to get his facts straight.
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BIG who cares.
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Jim & Greg for President
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DeRogatis is an "unapologetically old-school feminist" of the 60s-70s variety, the kind who likes to say he's down with women but never misses an opportunity to try and keep them in their place.
He started this whole thing by asserting that he knew better than 19-year-old Ellen Page what a teenage girl would listen to, because he talks to kids once in a while as part of his job. Some feminist.
When men write, star in and score snotty coming-of-age movies, good or bad, he does not care one bit.
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Oh, I get it...now it's cool to hate on Juno and the soundtrack when Stereogum was stroking it to them just a few weeks ago. Thanks for being there, Stereogum!
With your help, I also know that Vampire Weekend is lame and John Mayer is funny. KUDOS!
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You should have photoshopped his face onto the pregnant chick.
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why is stereogum so obsessed with jim derogatis?
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Juno is a great film. It is a shame that some people are too shortsighted to see that the dialogue in Juno is intentionally stylized. It the film's uncredited, unseen character, functioning in much the same way that Jonny Greenwood's soundtrack does in the very very different but equally great There Will Be Blood. No, not everyone is that sharp or that funny in real life. But think of a book you have read that is told in third person but essentially tells the story from one particular character's point of view. This is what Juno does. It's a story that, while told in third person, is essentially giving you Juno's view of everything-so you get the world as filtered through her.
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I liked this film a lot. The characters rang true to me (in fact, Jason Bateman's character hit a little too close to the bone). However, I hated the soundtrack. That whole incompetent/sloppy-on-purpose-because-we're-too-cool-to-sing-in-tune Kimya Dawson/Moldy Peaches thing makes me throw up a little in my mouth.
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I don't think that the fact that the dialogue is "intentionally stylized" got past anyone, Mike. It's just fucking stupid.
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Jim DeRogatis: "You shouldn't use your taste in music to conspicuously try to make other people think you're cooler than you really are! That's pathetic bullshit ... and it's my fucking job!"
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"the very same fact that people hate the 'what other kind of shenanigans' type fare"
Y'know I have a copy of the final shooting script that I got from work and that line isn't in it, she says something more benign.
It must have been something Ellen improv'd or it somehow just came up later..?
I did cringe, however, when I saw it in the trailer. That single line is a pretty good subtitle for the yawning genre.
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On the film: The first half of the film is bullshit Garden State-like fare (see: that fucking annoying I-just-wrote-this-in-my-notebook typeface that's in the opening credits). However the latter half of the film (starting with the scene in the mall) is pretty brilliant and more than makes up for the lackluster first half.
On the soundtrack: I love that Stooges/MC5/Suicide/Television/Patti Smith-influenced punk stuff as much as the next guy, but if you can't see the beauty in Cat Power's version of Phil Phillips' "Sea of Love" or any of those Belle and Sebastian tracks, you aren't listening hard enough.
On the abortion issue: Fuck it. If you want to see a film about the abortion debate, just go see "Lake of Fire." Otherwise let me watch my movie in peace.
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i don't understand why people hate juno so much. i actually liked the soundtrack a lot, it fit the mood of the film great. people complain about the dialogue of the film, but when i was a teenager, i remember speaking "different language" with my friends and then speaking to random strangers the same way not realising that they didn't understand me. and about the "anti-abortion" issue. i do think it is pro-choice movie. she chose not get an abortion. why does one assume that being pro-choice automatically means that you have to get an abortion? juno made her choice, and decided not to get one. it is as simple as that. the reasons why she didn't choose to get an abortion may not be clear, but in the end she made a choice not to get an abortion. people shouldn't be happy that every unexpected pregnancy ends up with an abortion. people should be happy that there is at least a choice for people to make on a difficult situation. and Jim knowing what teenage girls would listen to compared to Ellen Page? yeah, because like, Jim was totally a 15 year old girl before he transitioned into a man. idiot.
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I think one of the major flaws for me is its lack of realism or respect it shows for pregnancy. abort it or not whatever, this movie made it look so simple and appealing to be pregnant. It was just a terrible story, with nothing to offer. I would say it was maybe pro-choice, but leaning towards pro-life, i mean come on the raspberry (or whatever) dick condoms? I mean come on, who goes in for an abortion and has some annoying chick from Degrassi talking to you about how her boyfriends dick tastes.
Dumb shit.
oh yeah and always remember, it has fingernails.
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jim is still probably trying to explain how that bonnaroo "lez/led zeppelin" press release was misleading.
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I seriously take exception to this: "Sure, Juno gives lip service to loving Iggy and the Stooges and Patti Smith. But there isn't a hint of the anger and lust for life of those pioneering punks in the sort of twee indie-rock that Juno loves."
Let me just say before I continue that Kimya Dawson and Moldy Peaches aren't my cup of tea. Let me also say that, while I liked it as a whole, Juno was a little too precious and "cool" for me - Jason Reitman was obviously trying way too hard to name drop.
Now - the crux of my argument, or issue, or whatever: how come, if you love Iggy and the Stooges and Patti Smith, why can you not simultaneously love "twee indie rock," or any other genre for that matter? I blare my Gang of Four and Iggy right next to my Heavenly and Tiger Trap, right next to my Loretta Lynn and Patsy Cline. I love music, period.
I did not listen to the mp3 of the show, and I buy that the soundtrack isn't exactly cohesive, but I take great exception to that implication that to be "cool" (or whatever it is that this guy thinks he is), you've gotta stay true to the 1970s NYC music scene. I'm so tired of and bored with hipster fan boys. Blurgh.
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@patrick: "this movie made it look so simple and appealing to be pregnant"
I thought it made it look pretty alienating and uncomfortable.
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I can get behind his criticism that it's not a feminist movie; it left me wanting to physically abuse all sorts of women.
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Jim is just upset because this movie isn't about :
a.) Chicago
b.) Food
c.) Lester Bangs
d.) Lester Bangs cooking food in Chicago and savagely beating Ryan Adams with a skillet while listening to Wilco.
(they're all correct)
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It's kinda hard to take DeRogatis serious when at the same times he praises Fall Out Boy for being talented...
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Maybe DeRogatis should stop eating all those cheesesteaks and get a fucking life. And really, why should anyone care with that Lester-wannabe has to say?
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I loved the film, but I felt like the twee pop was an unusual choice for a movie about a teen who loves punk rock. I realize it's possible to like both, but there's a bit of disconnect between the character and the soundtrack.
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Juno is a fun movie- fuck all of you
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FINALLY!!! i've been looking SO long for someone who HATES Juno as much as I do; I made the same exact point about the Stooges thing (how the soundtrack was not in any way analogous with Juno's "character" and musical "tastes"), how Jason Reitman bankrupted his integrity fund going for the Indie Gold of Indie Comedy, how FUCKING ANNOYING IT IS.
Thank you, Jim DeRogatis. I can forgive you for hating the Boss.
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good point Patrick; I can't think of anything more insulting to someone who is actually a pregnant teen than some stupid bitch talking about dropping her baby on someone else's doorstep, then having a HAPPY ENDING.
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I believe it's "Thundercats HO!" Not "Thundercats GO!."
God. Why do people know nothing of culture these days.
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Things to recognize:
You are not the only person who liked Juno, it (sadly) got nominated for an Academy Award for best picture.
You are not the only person who hate Juno, I did too, as did about a hundred people who commented on this article, agreeing.
This guy is a bitch, and the movie wasn't political, and calm down.
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First of all, I disliked Juno. The first 30 minutes or so were so awkwardly cobbled together, I was checking my watch the whole time. The story of Jason Bateman's character and his wife was compelling and interesting, and I really enjoyed Juno's parents. At the same time, Michael Cera is great and I could watch him for hours, but this film can't be everything to everyone. I agree with the disconnect with the music...and how highly unlikely it is for a teenager now to be invested in early punk and 90s indie/twee/yadda/yadda/yadda. But all that aside, the contrived dialog sinks this film from the get go. The horrible (and old and irrelevant) music only adds weight to the sinking ship.
But in response to this guy and his politics, "pro-choice" doesn't have to mean "get an abortion." I think it's highly offensive to assume that. This guy is not "pro-choice" -- he is "pro-abortion," which is kiiiiiiiiinda fucked up. the right to choose is awesome, but criticizing someone for NOT having an abortion is bizarre.
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The pregnancy in the film was merely the filmmaker's tool to put teen alienation and the transition to adulthood under the microscope. That's pretty much it.
That's why any debate on the political message of the film devolves into this stupid message board-like "OMGZ THIS FILM TOTES HATES TEH WIMMENS AND VOTES FOR TEH HUCKABEES" crap.
Oh and we please get past this "DeRogatis is fat" stuff. I feel like I'm listening to my dad criticize Michael Moore.
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"But in response to this guy and his politics, "pro-choice" doesn't have to mean "get an abortion." I think it's highly offensive to assume that. This guy is not "pro-choice" -- he is "pro-abortion," which is kiiiiiiiiinda fucked up. the right to choose is awesome, but criticizing someone for NOT having an abortion is bizarre." quoted for truth.
the story ended happily. plently didn't like and plenty did. the right to choose is the right to make a choice. it doesn't mean it's the right to look stupid for wanting to have it. also, the movie wasn't political anyways. it was an attempt at a character piece.
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geez people, its just a movie. how many movies do you guys see that imitate life. if they imitated my life they'd be pretty fuckin boring to watch. the dialogue was funny...contrived, and funny. all media is contrived, just like most of your comments that you erase and edit and rewrite before you post.
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I consider myself a casual reader of this blog, but blog I swear to christ if the royal you fucking post one more dero entry i'll turn away and never come back.
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Behold, good sirs. Listen to your fact-checkin' cuz. This is simple: The movie soundtrack = the mixtape Juno receives from Mark.
It's all there in the dialogue:
JUNO
So, I’ve been spending a lot of time listening to that weird CD you made me.
(Mark instantly smiles.)
MARK
Oh really? What’s the verdict?
JUNO
I sort of like it. I mean, it’s cute.
MARK
Cute?
JUNO
Well, when you’re used to the raw power of Iggy and the Stooges, everything else sounds kind of precious by comparison.
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You're all a bunch of hipster douchebags.
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I hate anyone who has nothing better to do than decide whether or not Juno was a good movie or had a good soundtrack. I hate myself for reading all of the comments. Stereogum is such a freakin' sellout.
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Juno was incredibly underwhelming, horribly written, and overacted by Ellen Page and her gigantic head. it was just okay.
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Yeah, and why is that useless boyfriend (who looks like a peripheral character from Napolean Dynamite) held up like some kind of prize? That's the most unamusing male specimen I've seen in a long time.
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I really don't think the movie was calculated enough to bear any of the political messages being imposed on it by some of these critics. I saw it as a pretty simple story about people struggling to get the things that make them happy, in spite of the obstacles. Juno wants to be an ordinary teenager with a geek boyfriend, not a mom. Bateman's character wants to be in a rock band, not a suburban family man. Garner's character wants what Juno has already been given, and so they make an arrangement where everybody gets the best of what they want, even if they have to make sacrifices (like a broken marriage). That's what the whole scene in the mall was about. Juno thought Bateman's character was the "cool one," when it turned out to be Garner's passion for kids she actually admired. The rest is window dressing, if you ask me.
And for what it's worth, I'm not a big Moldy Peaches fan at all, but I thought it worked fine in the movie. There's a lot of uncertainty in Juno and her future, so the paper-thin songs seemed to suit that mix of optimism and frailty she had.
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i thought the movie was pretty good. some of the dialog was too witty to be realistic. but it was good.
and the soundtrack is amazing. i thought it fit w/ the movie and is a great compilation on it's own.
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At times the dialogue was just too witty for its own good, and not realistic at all. But I did like the movie. The soundtrack has its moments, but the Sonic Youth cover of superstar is awful. The Carpenters version is fantastic.
I think Karen Carpenter would throw up if she heard that version.
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hahaha see below lies, not all wht people llike juno
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.wordpress.com/2008/02/06/57-juno/
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Ah, the inevitable Juno backlash. This always happens whenever anything (movie, band, book) that has hipster appeal is so wonderfully executed, that it starts to get the attention of the "uncool" and becomes popular. And indies will never stand for that!!!
Yeah, it's not the best movie I've ever seen, and it isn't perfect, but it is a very good film that I feel deserves the accolades and award nominations it is receiving. I thought it was much better than, say "Little Miss Sunshine" or "Garden State".
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Backlash? It was a bad movie. I'm not going to get onto it for its lack of realism -- because, as we all know, that's not what makes a movie good or bad.
But! it's a movie full of character types, not characters. In the hands of less capable actors, these "characters" would have been flesh-wad devices capable only of spewing shallow Facebook-quote-ready while some teenager's belly gets bigger -- the only true character development in the script.
To the credit of the cast, the performances are all-around decent. Jason Bateman's performance was inspired, and I feel like I'm not the only person who thought the movie would have been better if it were about his and Jennifer Garner's characters.
No director and cast could have saved it, though, from being what it is: an amoral morality play with shit for brains and an artificial heart.
The end.
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juno is the lamest shit ever. if you've only heard "Superstar", don't you dare call yourself a Sonic Youth fan. Plus, if you knocked up a girl in high school, it'd be the most unfunniest shit ever.
peace
day tripper
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I agree Old Davy, Juno was a decent movie.
I cringed like others at Juno's dialog at the beginning of the film, but I let it slide as I got drawn into the story. Not surprising the hipsters hate it.
I thought the soundtrack fitted nicely with the film, don't think having Iggy or Patti Smith blaring throughout that film would have worked. It would have been utterly ridiculous actually.
I also agree with others it wasn't pro-abortion, just pro-choice. I've never heard of this guy, but if he hates Bruce, then he can go fuck himself.
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juno was a great movie. it's high fuckin time somebody in the media made a film with that doesn't try to please everyone. kimya is great too
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"Not surprising the hipsters hate it."
HALF OF YOU PEOPLE MAKE NO SENSE.
It's either targeted at so-called hipsters or it's not. Truthfully, I don't think any of these people exist -- at least not in the comment section of stereogum.
Why can't people just understand that people who dislike this movie aren't doing so to attain access to some club. It's not for all the chicks it's getting us. IT'S BECAUSE IT IS A BAD MOVIE.
Not surprised hipsters hate it? What the fuck is wrong with you people? My MOM hated Juno. And she's never even heard of Yeasayer or whatever band Stereogum is sucking off today.
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"It's either targeted at hipsters or it's not."
Forgive me, that makes so much more sense...
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That'll teach me to wake up drunk.
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To skip all the repetitive agreeing and disagreeing going around this discussion, I'm simply going to say my main critique was that at some points the cutesy soundtrack overwhelmed the film. There would be some crucial scene going on, and then there'd be this person singing off-key about vampires and it would be impossible to focus on the actual dialogue.
But, yeah, anybody who thinks it's unrealistic for a kid to be into music from before they were born has a seriously limited... imagination? Memory?
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is it funny that his name is Derogatis? Like Mr Snarky Derogatory Derogatis? Is that just me?
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Agree with Jim %100. What an utter piece of crap and waste of 2 hours that movie was. I absolutely cannot believe all of the positive reviews and press it's getting (someone is paying some big promo bucks methinks). Oh and that soundtrack.... ugggg worse than the movie itself. What schlop. I can't believe the nerve of such a soundtrack, especially after all the actual good bands they name check in the film (did I call that a film? pardon me).
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Who the fuck is Jim Derogatis?
The movie was ok. It took up 2 hours out of my day and it got me out of the house. The soundtrack is ok to do dishes to.
If the soundtrack was about me getting a girl preggers at 15, there would be shitloads of Iron Maiden and Anthrax. So yeah....Kimya can't be THAT bad.
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"all media is contrived, just like most of your comments that you erase and edit and rewrite before you post."
Haha, right on.
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Hey, that poster Josh up above is really on to something that really bothered me about this movie:
Ellen Page's head is HUGE. It's a big infant-proportioned head, and on top of that, it even looks like a baby's head.
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But what does bob lefsetz think of Juno?
Seriously though, even though I hated Juno, I have to give it props for stirring such strong reactions in people. I think that part that drove me the most nuts was when pregnant Juno was asking her dad about how you know when it's truly love, and his answer was some heartwarming BS instead of, "you got pregnant you jerk! love is the last time you should be thinking about!" Also her indignity at being called "that kind of girl" by her dad...she never seems to deal very well with any kind of consequences to her actions, maybe thats why the generation a few years my junior seems to be reacting so strongly to it.
I also never liked moldy peaches that much, but considering that the soundtrack is getting a decade old Sonic Youth track played on KROQ, I'll cut them some slack.
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Over-hyped + Mannerist dialogue + Ellen Page's poop acting = Masturbatory Drivel AKA Juno.
I was really excited to see it. Then, as I watched it, I couldn't get over how painfully self aware it was. It's like listening to two people talk about how cool so and so band is, all the while making sure they get noticed by those around them. And the Moldy Peaches song! Seriously, the first time it was was "cute," but three times. WTF?! I wanted to punch someone in the face. RIYL shit.
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I think I understand why Jim (we're on a first-name basis, you see) hated it, as well as Ryan Adams, and praised Fall Out Boy (I didn't read the actual text of his praise, so I'm guessing here): It's about legitimacy. The dialogue of Juno didn't ring true to him, tried to be overly hip and cute, and even though I think it was largely successful, it alienated him because it was "trying too hard". Ryan Adams too, always seems like he's trying on different personas, trying too hard too. Fall Out Boy has never made any pretentions to being anything other than a catchy bubblegum/emo pop band. And they succeed at that.
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I saw Juno twice in theaters. I can't believe I paid almost $20 or that I just read all the above comments. However, I enjoyed the movie while I was watching it. The dialogue might not have seemed natural, but I found it more unexpectedly charming than some trite, commonplace phrases that catch my attention. If the fundamental purpose of Juno was to entertain (the entertainment industry is called that for a reason), one can ascertain that it definitely achieved this goal. Expectations aside, I could appreciate Juno for what it was, connect with what I felt was genuine, and focus on its positive attributes (if cynics delight in negative criticism, I won't begrudge their pursuit of happiness).
I really like how someone posted as Juno.
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"Fall Out Boy has never made any pretentions to being anything other than a catchy bubblegum/emo pop band. And they succeed at that."
yeah, but they're still shitty.
and sonic youth's cover was pretty shitty too.
i liked the soundtrack though and probably the only thing i didn't like about the movie was the runners running. everywhere. but other than that, it was aight.
i mean any soundtrack that has at least one b&s song is ok in my book. and i wasn't a big moldy peaches fan before this movie, but it works with what the movies got. i mean think about the lyrics and think about what they're singing about, it's just...not in a bad way, but very juvenile? and it's got big themes. i mean c'mon, anyone else but you? give me a break, it's not some masterpiece like full on emotional radiohead song or some shit, but i think it gets the message across. just cos it's simple or whatever doesn't mean that it doesn't hit home to some people. and so what if its cutesy? you think this movie was some fucking deep drama lets think about how she got pregnant flick? pulease. i think the "cutesy" soundtrack fits it, but whatevs.
and what's up with all the hostility against this movie? i understand not liking something but damn, chill the fuck out. it's a movie. yeah have your opinions, but you know, there are other more important things than for people to bitch out some movie that will just get shadowed by the next "great indie film of our generation," or some lame shit like that.
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it's cool to hate what other people love. get over it.
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^^^^^That's what pisses me off. I like movies. I love movies, even. I spend a lot of time thinking about movies, watching them, writing about them, pretending that I'm capable of writing one myself. They are a passion of mine.
Pathetic fanboy though I may be, I judge movies on their merit -- NOT on the public and/or critical reactions to them.
I wholeheartedly believe that Juno is a bad movie, and it angers me when people dismiss the opinion I hold as a reaction to the opinions of others rather than the movie itself. Ya get me?
I respect people opinion's insomuchas I don't assume they only like the movie because other people like it too. That is because I am better than most people, clearly.
So realize that some detractors just didn't like the flick. It's not because their little sister liked it, and it's not because it's got a bad soundtrack.
It's because it sucked hard. Real hard.
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Jim Deragotis needs to shave his vagina and by vagina, I mean face.
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what's wrong with juno is that it doesn't star daniel day-lewis.
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You know what would have truthfully made Juno decide against abortion instead of that fingernails deal.
Daniel Plainview inside the abortion clinic screaming
I'VE ABANDONED MY CHILD, I'VE ABANDONED MY CHILD, I'VE ABANDONED MY CHILD
It's cool to not do what oil tycoons do. Oh wait, that's the premise of the sequel to Juno.
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Let's not forgot about how ridiculous it is that a movie can be nominated for the academy award for Best Picture and yet have 4 different scenes that I counted where a boom mic was visible in the shot.
The soundtrack is absurd. It isn't even a question of how good the songs on it are. The fact is the soundtrack contains a whopping 19 songs. That is so fucking long. While I was watching it almost became a joke that the generic acoustic guitar strum would start up every 10 minutes. The movie even commented on it at one point - the strum started only to reveal Michael Cera in his room playing guitar. So 19 songs plus one of those songs played 3 times (it's on the soundtrack twice) means 20 songs in the movie. 20 songs should not be played in the same movie unless they are all written by Radiohead.
Last but not least, the character of Juno was way contrived and WAY too 'cute'. Nobody talks like that. Nobody has that many witty comments just sitting on the shelf waiting to be used. Took me right out of the movie.
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"Last but not least, the character of Juno was way contrived and WAY too 'cute'. Nobody talks like that. Nobody has that many witty comments just sitting on the shelf waiting to be used. Took me right out of the movie."
Maybe you're just hanging out with the wrong 16 year old sluts.
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jim derogatis is a sad, sad man who is sad because he's 200 pounds overweight and his band sucks.
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"Let's not forgot about how ridiculous it is that a movie can be nominated for the academy award for Best Picture and yet have 4 different scenes that I counted where a boom mic was visible in the shot."
wow, big comment there. like to see you list the scenes. the movie is not on dvd yet, so you're telling me you sat through the movie once in the theater (why would you go more then once, you hated it right?) and just happened to notice four shots with a boom mic in them? please.
juno was a great movie. who cares if it was pro-choice or not? or if you didn;t like the soundtrack? like wtf? or if was too "hipster" for you? or because you're "now that it's so popular I'm gonna be the only person who's not going to like it" cool? jim derogatis is such an idiot. if he think that truly great music can only be accomplished by technically skilled instrumentalist - I don't even want to hear his opinions on music. he sounds like the modern day equivalent of a classical music snob. "you can;t start a band or write songs because you can't shred a guitar" fuck off.
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What is it about "chins" Deragottata that infuriates bloggers and musicians to the point of wishing anal sex upon him or calling his fucking house? This guy's a two-bit hack that deserves nothing more than our slightly annoyed expression. And I've never seen this movie or heard the soundtrack and don't really care either.
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"Let's not forgot about how ridiculous it is that a movie can be nominated for the academy award for Best Picture and yet have 4 different scenes that I counted where a boom mic was visible in the shot."
Dude, as I have to tell people in Answer Man every two weeks, that's the fault of the projectionist. The movie was improperly masked in the theatre.
It-doesn't-mean-the-director-sucks, and on a related note, it-doesn't-mean-the-movie-sucks.
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I don't always agree with Greg and Jim but I agree Juno was not great, it was OK. It felt insanely contrived/boring: the music, the actors(I love Arrested Development), the plot, the writing.
Some indie films are quirky and you feel like you're the only one getting the joke; Juno was just another, "the best jokes were in the previews" movie. Diablo Cody, enjoy your 5 seconds of fame, don't spend all the money cuz you're gonna need it when the public tires of your stripper-cum-good novelty.
Oh yeah, and the Justin Bateman character(30's musician) being educated by the teenager Juno is the most asinine thing I've seen on film as of late.
5/10
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Dero likes bombastically hating things, and here's the thing: good for him. I like reading critics that really stick to their guns. And the Doors truly are horrible.
That said, he's as wrong about Kimya sucking as he is about Rush being worthy of radio show air time.
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The characters in Juno were walking one-liners. It was like watching Gilmore Girls for two hours. The same thing happened with Aaron Sorkin's Sports Night. Cody's script suffers immensely from Sorkin Syndrom--unrealistic, rapid-fire dialog. Works on "The West Wing" but not in high school.
But to Cody's credit she adds a few variations to Sorkin Syndrom: peppering in jokes that might not fit with the current scene / character's state of mind, murdering otherwise good jokes with needless prepositional phrases and compound sentences ("look at me, i'm a writer, watch me flatten a joke because i'm out of touch and didn't know when to show restraint"), obligatory name dropping (especially when concerning music), and general creative masturbation.
She's in love with herself and she must be stopped. Through SONG.....
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My best friend got pregnant when we were 15. I expected to watch the movie and laugh at all the things I couldn't laugh about then. It didn't work, I pretty much thought it was the unfunniest movie ever.
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what a wonderful discussion of juno's SOUNDTRACK...
CTRL + F
"Kinks": Not found
CTRL + F
"Jobim": Not found
CTRL + F
"Bowie": Not found
CTRL + F
"Lou Reed": Not found
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Word, andrew.
With all of these comments being the masturbatory posturing that they are (and is common of "indie-crowds"). I am quite surprised that VU or Bowie hasn't come up once.
Plus, if this movie had "realistic" dialogue it would have been a Lifetime channel, sunday-lunch special. It wasn't trying too hard to be cool, it was meant to be entertaining.
You are all guilty of exaclty what you don't like about this movie (which is probably why you don't like it). Idiots. No worse... hypocrits.
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i thought this movie was pretty getable:
juno's lying a lot. she's 16 and thinks everyone older than her who listens to music will think shes cool if she drops iggy pop references. really, shes a 16 year old girl, and likes cute little songs. if she was as musically well versed as she makes her self out to be, she would understand sonic youth isnt just noise. this is basically the point of the movie, juno's transition from the character she has turned herself into to the person she actually is, signified by her acceptance of her child's father.
i think a lot of older people are the ones saying they didnt get it/her. its really about how young, artsy, intelligent people who ended up getting raised and enlightened by the internet deal with real life. i know theres nothing about technology stated outright, but think about it: juno is getting her alternative opinions on culture from somewhere, and they dont seem to be coming from parents or friends. its coming from the internet, where more intelligent young people go to shop for identities. she even mentions reading mcsweeneys, we can assume she frequents a lot of hip internet cultural touchstones (stereogum perhaps?)and from all of this she compiles this persona that talks about 77 even thought she likes the kimya stuff a lot more and talks like she never really learned how to carry on a conversation. this is kind of a new phenomenon; the internet has made alternative culture an easily accessible, free resource. you dont pay for zines, you read blogs. you dont buy records, you download them for free. you read online fiction magazines instead of books. its right there and if youre trying to grow up, its the fastest way to convince yourself you have. i doubt this is something that resonates with too many people past their late 20s.
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derogatis has no taste. who cares what he thinks.
"pro-choice" doesn't have to mean "get an abortion." I think it's highly offensive to assume that. This guy is not "pro-choice" -- he is "pro-abortion," which is kiiiiiiiiinda fucked up. the right to choose is awesome, but criticizing someone for NOT having an abortion is bizarre."
your heart is in the right place, but i don't think the "pro choice does not mean get an abortion" argument is accurate. if you are pro-choice, then you support abortion, at least indirectly, even if you never would do it yourself. encouraging or enabling someone else to do wrong makes you complicit in the act. if "pro-choice doesn't mean get an abortion" then what does it mean? what else are you choosing? without the "choice" there is no abortion. think about it. yes, choices are a very good thing but not all choices are created equal. giving a mother the "choice" to give birth or undergo a procedure that kills her unborn child is not the same thing as choosing between coke and pepsi. the best -and really only- choice is life.
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"Pro-choice" doesn't have to mean "get an abortion," no. It means you have the right to choose an abortion though.
I'm wondering, what is the label for "I don't want the baby, let me go get a quick abortion, oh wait, it's a real living creature with FINGERNAILS, I could never do that and I must do the honorable thing despite the fact I'm stupid and 15 and I know! I'll give it to a poor couple who cannot have their own child"? Sounds pretty Sunday-school to me.
It's only a movie, and it wouldn't be a movie if she got an abortion in the first act, so it's kind of a moot point. But I think the pope would like it, all I'm saying.
PS, it's not a "child," it's a cluster of cells that have the capacity to eventually evolve into a human child after several months of development and a successful delivery. I don't believe the same things you do, just like you don't believe in covering your head when you enter a holy place, or bringing some fresh fruit to a buddha statue. LIve and let live. I'm not forcing YOU to get an abortion.
Sorry, I know this doesn't belong on the 'gum but I'm posting it anyway.
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THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!
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jim derogatis is a douche
i hate juno
i love RA however
http://youtube.com/watch?v=yoTUXBbaFjE
i found this on youtube
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THERE IS MUch to be said about this movie and has already been said in other forums. i would add one small hair-splitting disagreement with Jim though. Juno is not pro-life, but anti-choice. I never thought i'd ever have to make this small but real distinction, but here it is. Juno never says abortion is wrong... but she leaves the clinic because of a quirk, never to return.. . . . to even considering the option. When i think of choice in relation to significant life events such as pregnancy (not the same as, say, the choice between soft drink X or Y to provide meager pleasure while, say, watching such an displeasing movie as Juno), I assume that choice involves a rational, careful weighing of options, which are thought out over hours, days, weeks, maybe even months. Juno is quite flippant about the matter, and there never seems to be any choice in this sense. So while she never flat out says abortion is wrong, there is never any serious choice. The difference: Pro-lifers will say abortion is a wrong choice never to be considered. Juno, as anti-choice, says serious thought about choice is not to be considered, as it would be "totally uncool."
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