Kanye Causes Controversy
Wish I Tivo'd this. AP reports:
It began, fittingly enough, with jazz from New Orleans natives Harry Connick Jr. and Wynton Marsalis.Hear that NBC? There is no news unless it is Kanye news. Anyone see it live? It was cut out of the west coast airing.But "A Concert for Hurricane Relief," a heartfelt and dignified benefit aired on NBC and other networks Friday night, took an unexpected turn thanks to the outspoken rapper Kanye West. Appearing two-thirds through the program, he claimed "George Bush doesn't care about black people" and said America is set up "to help the poor, the black people, the less well-off as slow as possible."
The show, simulcast from New York on NBC, MSNBC, CNBC and Pax, was aired live to the East Coast, enabling the Grammy-winning rapper's outburst to go out uncensored.
...
Comedian Mike Myers was paired with West for a 90-second segment that began with Myers speaking of Katrina's devastation. Then, to Myers' evident surprise, West began a rant by saying, "I hate the way they portray us in the media. If you see a black family, it says they're looting. See a white family, it says they're looking for food."
While allowing that "the Red Cross is doing everything they can," West — who delivered an emotional outburst at the American Music Awards after he was snubbed for an award — declared that government authorities are intentionally dragging their feet on aid to the Gulf Coast. Without getting specific, he added, "They've given them permission to go down and shoot us."
After he stated, "George Bush doesn't care about black people. Please call —" the camera cut away to comedian Chris Tucker.
Concluding the hour a few minutes later, (host Matt) Lauer noted that "emotions in this country right now are running very high. Sometimes that emotion is translated into inspiration, sometimes into criticism. We've heard some of that tonight. But it's still part of the American way of life."
Then the entire ensemble performed "When the Saints Go Marching In."
UPDATE: Stream the whole thing here.
Posted at 12:23 AM
Tags: Kanye West
There's a stream of what happened here: http://www.pixelmd.com/kanye.html
In my opinion, good for him for practicing that freedom of speech thing you always hear about.
I mean its been days, and the government has not provided effective help or safety of these people. When they do, it's too late, and horribly organized. Get on saving your people Bush for fuck sakes.
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"... enabling ... to go out uncensored". Interesting that political opinions are censorship material these days.
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Diamonds are forever. Forever. Forever.
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emotions are running high, but i do have to say that this is one of the very few times that i've actually agreed with kanye west. LOL at the media's attempt to discredit what kanye was saying by blaming it on emotions.
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Tonight's other meltdown, though it doesn't involve any famous musicians.
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Wow.... that was incredible.
You know, if it weren't for Mike Myers reading perfectly off the cue card, it wouldn't be as dramatic. But the two dissimilar pleas side-by-side made me remember that Myers is acting up there, while West was (hate to use the term) 'keeping it real.'
It's interesting they cut away, because West was done. Myers ended up being the one to get cut off. I wouldn't call it censorship, as much as fear that he might figuratively tear off Myers shirt and expose a breast.
Matt Lauer has subtley defended Bush on many an occasion, so I'm not surprised by his comments.
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http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/09/02.html#a4763
Some nights I can't type straigtht, I swear.
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george bush DOESNT care about black people. most people don't. i've never heard kanye west's music and i'm really quite put off by celebrity activism, but thank fucking god someone said it in a public forum. to pretend race isn't an issue, whether it be in this relief effort or otherwise, is a chicken shit way out. and i'm sick and tired of all these so-call progressives (white, mind you) who laud multiculturalism and diversity, and yet are so divorced from dealing with people of color. for them, multiculturalism equals white essentialism. west's remarks tonight won't create a national discussion about race--that's never going to happen--but i hope it made people very uncomfortable.
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I guess I missed the part about it being cut out on the West Coast on first read... that's just appalling.
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It's an odd little thing, it's almost as if Kayne is reading off a script while Myers is freestyling, what with the difference in demeanor, but obviously Myers is the one sticking to the script while Kayne is veering off it. In that context, his comments almost get more power through the starkness of them: the monotone recitation of "George Bush doesn't care about black people", for example.
For anyone who wants to keep a copy, I'll go out on a limb and hopefully I've set up this link right and it doesn't get broken: http://www.ualberta.ca/~keithz/Kanye_-_Red_Cross_Benefit_NBC_.mpg
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I told all yall muthafuckas this shit was going to explode!
Look out your goddamn windows. Bitches. A major American city just fell, collapsed, was wiped off the face of the map. There is no federal infrastructure in this country. It's now two countries, rich and poor. We aren't ready to deal with a natural disaster much less a theoretical terrorist attack that we can do very little about, ultimately.
I remember after 9/11 the somber tone in the air. People were straight up mad real kind and polite everywhere you went. The whole country felt like it was in mourning.
I feel like I'm living in a country where the death of multitudes of black people by starvation is being treated like a really good episode of the news. Why isn't this as huge as 9/11? I know what you will say "ya ya we were attcked". Shit don't matter. Your own grandparents never lived through catastrophe like this.
That's why we're fucking pissed off. Meanwhile, most of y'all just are probably worried about how this is going to impact Spring Break. Goddamn, people.
I propose we take a city like Kennebunkport and remove all food and water and flood it and see how long it takes for people to look after they own selves.
Now read about this young brother who stole a bus to save as many people as he could. Was he a "looter"? HELL NO.
http://www.newschannel5.tv/2005/9/1/4255/Taking-refuge-in-the-Astrodome
Testify, brother Kanye. Though I will say that he doesn't just hate black people. He hates poor people.
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I've never been a fan, but Kanye just got a lifetime pass from me. Bravo. Fucking bravissimo.
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Good for him for speaking his heart, I wish more Americans were feeling as convicted to get involved and get vocal about what's going on down there.
But it's not just about the government ignoring black people. They were ignoring ALL people stranded in New Orleans for far too long. It's about desparation. I don't think the looting, raping and violence can be attributed to any particular group--I think the government and the president have been ignoring all of those people because they are simply ignorant of the facts. They were without food, water, plumbing or medical treatment for over three days--people of all races and age groups were stranded together. I think that would drive anybody to do anything and Kanye is right in that you can't assign blame to any specific individual. Bush is just ignorant, period, and he demonstrated that very well when he held a press conference describing his hope that Trent Lott's house would be rebuilt.
I know everybody is aware of that but I wish he wouldn't assign Bush's ignorance to the black community alone. FEMA and the federal government clearly misunderstood and mishandled the entire situation. I only pray that they can rectify it quickly.
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Prayers all around for those in the wake of this horrible mess...
And seriously, bravo to Kanye, cause he's right all the way.
If Mother Nature attacked Capital Hill, I bet relief would come mighty quick.
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No kidding, Jason. Isn't that sick?
We have got to come together and start doing what we can as volunteers to help until our government starts getting the message. I'm working to organize volunteer efforts on my university campus and I think if we can encourage other people to get together in their communities and pool their resources--as well as badger their congressmen and women day and night to get on the stick--maybe those of us outside of N.O. can make a real difference.
Seriously, follow Kanye's example and if you haven't picked up the phone to call your leadership, or gone to give money, volunteer time, or donate blood, do so. Despite what CNN is spinning this thing is far from resolved.
Those people are Americans too, regardless of their class or color, and we should do everything to support them.
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*sigh*
Kanye kanye kanyeeeeeeeeeee.
Great album, good rant (not really) but wrong place/time.
Where were you during the election?
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Kanye wasn't mega famous during the election, was he???
That was a question...
Anyway, it is nice to see someone in America hasn't pulled the wool over their own eyes.
It is a race issue.
Bush is a bad president.
Kane is totally right.
And freedom doesn't exist in America anymore. Only those people with enough money (whites) are free. And even at that, it's only those with huge amounts of money.
For once, I'm not pissed off with stereogum.
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damn kayne don't you know you're supposed to read the words on the autocue!?
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anybody else noticed the freudian slip?
"i'd be a hypocrit... i'd try to turn away from the teacher ... uh tv..."
The College Dropout... get it?
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i'm not really sure if this is a racial issue. and i really don't think it's a good idea to start bringing this up at this time, when it's still going on... i mean first things first, they're already way behind shedule.
the last thing you need is to cause more riots and chaos. and i agree with him on the looting part, but that still leaves the r-apes and assault unaccounted for.
i don't get how a country that has a history with hurricanes can be so unprepared for such situations. don't they have emergency plans and stuff like that??! they knew days in advance and still people are dying!!! this could have been prevented. the republicans are so gonna lose the elections.
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Freedom doesn't exist anymore? You twat. Without freedom, would Kanye be able to have said what he said?
The whole thing is a clusterfuck and it has nothing to do with black or white. Honestly, what could Bush be doing? All you idiots complain yet offer no solutions.
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*from michaelmoore.com*
Friday, September 2nd, 2005
Dear Mr. Bush:
Any idea where all our helicopters are? It's Day 5 of Hurricane Katrina and thousands remain stranded in New Orleans and need to be airlifted. Where on earth could you have misplaced all our military choppers? Do you need help finding them? I once lost my car in a Sears parking lot. Man, was that a drag.
Also, any idea where all our national guard soldiers are? We could really use them right now for the type of thing they signed up to do like helping with national disasters. How come they weren't there to begin with?
Last Thursday I was in south Florida and sat outside while the eye of Hurricane Katrina passed over my head. It was only a Category 1 then but it was pretty nasty. Eleven people died and, as of today, there were still homes without power. That night the weatherman said this storm was on its way to New Orleans. That was Thursday! Did anybody tell you? I know you didn't want to interrupt your vacation and I know how you don't like to get bad news. Plus, you had fundraisers to go to and mothers of dead soldiers to ignore and smear. You sure showed her!
I especially like how, the day after the hurricane, instead of flying to Louisiana, you flew to San Diego to party with your business peeps. Don't let people criticize you for this -- after all, the hurricane was over and what the heck could you do, put your finger in the dike?
And don't listen to those who, in the coming days, will reveal how you specifically reduced the Army Corps of Engineers' budget for New Orleans this summer for the third year in a row. You just tell them that even if you hadn't cut the money to fix those levees, there weren't going to be any Army engineers to fix them anyway because you had a much more important construction job for them -- BUILDING DEMOCRACY IN IRAQ!
On Day 3, when you finally left your vacation home, I have to say I was moved by how you had your Air Force One pilot descend from the clouds as you flew over New Orleans so you could catch a quick look of the disaster. Hey, I know you couldn't stop and grab a bullhorn and stand on some rubble and act like a commander in chief. Been there done that.
There will be those who will try to politicize this tragedy and try to use it against you. Just have your people keep pointing that out. Respond to nothing. Even those pesky scientists who predicted this would happen because the water in the Gulf of Mexico is getting hotter and hotter making a storm like this inevitable. Ignore them and all their global warming Chicken Littles. There is nothing unusual about a hurricane that was so wide it would be like having one F-4 tornado that stretched from New York to Cleveland.
No, Mr. Bush, you just stay the course. It's not your fault that 30 percent of New Orleans lives in poverty or that tens of thousands had no transportation to get out of town. C'mon, they're black! I mean, it's not like this happened to Kennebunkport. Can you imagine leaving white people on their roofs for five days? Don't make me laugh! Race has nothing -- NOTHING -- to do with this!
You hang in there, Mr. Bush. Just try to find a few of our Army helicopters and send them there. Pretend the people of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast are near Tikrit.
Yours,
Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com
www.MichaelMoore.com
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The federal government fucked up. But the Kanye West statement and people who support it blindly is a good example at over simplfying and just responding with the rational of a school child. Do I like Bush? Fuck no. But come on..he hates black people? The system we had in placed failed. Lets fix the real problem instead of screaming how Bush is an idiot. He's leaving office...screaming about him isn't fixing shit. Lets focus on actual solutions.
And frankly his rant about how white people aren't portrayed as looters. I've seen about 5 different blogs talking about this and all of them show the same damn picture. Honestly beyond that -1- picture that was on yahoo, has anyone seen a mass portrayl of white people as saints and black people as only looters?
Finally he goes off about how the national guard is authorized to shoot people. DId I miss something? All the talk about the national guard being well armed is too reassure innocent folks and scare the shit out of those criminals out there. They're not talking about fucking shooting people stealing bread and crapping in the street.
I'm just sick of this useless bashing. Lets look at how the emergency system failed....not some bullshit about racism.
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i don't think kanye said "bush hates black people". i think he said "bust doesn't care about black people". there's a big difference, even if practically they *may* amount to the same thing.
kanye may not have chosen the right time to bring up these issues - i think we should focus all our efforts on immediate recovery, rather than blaming/praising - but the issues he raises are crucial, and will have to be rasied sooner or later. good on him for speaking his mind. his sympathy felt real, even if that telethon by and large didn't.
anyone with half-a-brain would realize that if this disaster was in an economic center all the stops would be pulled out. bush is keen to spend billions daily on an ill-conceived and poorly administrated war, yet cannot cobble together adequate resources for a natural disaster that we knew for days was going to happen? how many 'copters are in and out of iraq daily? we don't have a couple kicking around the continental u.s.a.? if the federal government was even remotely interested in 'freedom' and 'democracy' they would have ensured that all citizens of the area were able to get out, and not merely left citizens to their own means to find their way out. and why is it taking so long to get help to people now?
the bottom line is this: bush and his cronies are interested in preserving the monied interests for the american elite and the general status quo. everything else is secondary, and i think americans are finally getting a real look at what this administration has always been about, what all its policies have been centered around. america is rich vs. poor, and when shit goes awry, you better damn well believe that the rich will leave the poor to fend for themselves.
it's not that bush hates anyone. it's that he doesn't care. it's not that he hates black people, it's that he doesn't care about poor people. it just so happens that most poor people (in the new orleans area at least) are black. and the "bullshit about racism" (as cali put it) is calling it like it is as many of us recognize an inexorable link between poverty and race as a kind of systematic racism that structures both the functioning and our understanding of america.
that said, what's going on in new orleans is a disaster. kudos to any and all who have contributed to the relief effort, and that includes kanye using a mass media forum to speak his mind. and perhaps encourage other minority citizens to contribute more than they have. there's still a lot to do, so let's keep it up.
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what will it take for bush apologists to wake up? we just witnessed the executive branch of the federal government completely fail at one of its basic functions.
ok me, here's what bush could have done:
-not appoint a fundraiser/crony/good ol' boy to run fema who had no experience in emergency management.
-provide fema with adequate funding
-fully fund levee projects and flood control to the state of louisiana instead of cutting it for tax cuts and war
-not specifically allow development into marshes and swamps in the area, ending a clinton program that would have absorbed some of the storm surge
-getting the military, like a brigade of the 101st ready to respond before the hurricane hit. so they can move in as soon as the weather clears to drop supplies and help people
-getting the hospital ship and navy ships carrying supplies from virginia ready to go a week ago when we knew n.o. was in danger and getting them sailed so they can arrive a day or so after the hurricane rather than a week after
-ordering temporary housing to be built at say closed military bases so that there is a place for evacuees to go to
i could go on, but do you see the point? there is lots he could have done as the leader of a government with untold resources. it would have take foresight, dedication, thoughtfulness and real fucking leadership, things bush has never demonstrated that he posesses.
and don't try the current repub spin that it was the state and local governments responsibilities. a real leader takes action and makes sure things are taken care of. they do not wait on the proper forms to be filled out when there is a crisis. it's funny, i never thought i would see a day when repubs would use beaurocratic procedure as an excuse. but i guess anything goes when bush needs to be propped up.
and to finish, since 9/11, shouldn't our governemnt have been preparing for exactly this type of things? mass evacuation in case of say a dirty bomb or chemical attack? what a failure. what has been going on for the last 4 years? me, if there were a dirty bomb exploded where you live, would you be happy if it took the federal goverment 4 days before they arrived to help the situation?
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You know Me, Kanyes statements were cut from the west coast airing... if there was time delay on the east coast, they would be cut there as well.
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thank you, s-bot and pete, for your extensive posts.
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You cannot separate the relationship btwn race and poverty to basic survival from this tragedy. Kanye spoke from his heart. And, many others in the media seem FINALLY to be asking the important questions rather than as they've done since 9-11,robotically spitting out what the gov't feeds them...Anderson Cooper, Cafferty, Geraldo and more....all expressing the very real and inexcusable horror occurring on the ground. Also, the mayor of New Orleans...how long has it been, if ever, since you've heard a politician speak such truth without concern for who he might offend at the top (especially when "the top" has a proven track record of vengeful retribution)?
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Ice-T's waded in as well. I think this MP3 sums it all up.
http://www.notyourusualbollocks.squarespace.com/journal/2005/9/2/toekeo-fuck-bush-ft-ice-t-mp3.html
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This is just absurd. There are plenty of black people in Mississippi and Alabama, and they had their coastlines devastated by Katrina as well, but their STATE governments had plans in place and have provided aid to their citizens. The Louisiana govt. and specifically, the mayor of New Orleans, have failed the people of New Orleans.
Maybe if the people there would stop SHOOTING at aid, they'd get some.
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I see a lot of people posting extremely negative threads on this board, and I must emphasize to all these people who are ranting and cursing at 'everybody', to get up and do something positive. In stead of wasting your time critisizing the local government on a small chat board, and defending Kanye's outburst (although in my opinion is somewhat true)...GET UP AND DO SOMETHING. If your smart enought to give a political statement on the internet, your smart enough to make a change, no matter how big or how small.
My wife and I are both in upper management in the companies we work at. We both sent out flyers and emails to our fellow employees requesting aid in the form of checks or money orders made out to the red cross in order to help the unfortunate. In two days, we raised over $1200 to donate to the red cross. TWO DAYS!
Myself, or my wife have never done something like this, and were amazed at how much people do really care, and are willing to help.
If you are upset by our governments lack of reaction and unplausable response to this situation, do something positive. Unless you ARE a celebrity who gets to have a spot on MSNBC or whatever....you are not going to make a change by sitting alone cussing this situation on stereogum.com. Do something, make your voice be heard in a positive way! -Mark
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Fucking wow. Good on you, Kanye.
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mark - you definitely have the right idea. good on you and your wife for developing your own path to helping those in need. this is a time for relief, not ideologizing.
but i think if you go back and re-read the posts, you'll see that some of the posters were explicit in their belief that this isn't really the time to blame/praise or anyone, but that in response to stereogum's initial post (to which we are all ostensibly responding), here are our initial ideas... and even if some people came across as more critical than others, let's give them the benefit of the doubt and trust that they recognize the urgency of the situation and are making time to do or give what they can.
further, while i agree that immediate tangible aid is infinitely more important than discussion for those in new orleans right now, i do believe that the kind of discussion we are having here is helpful. it's forcing us to think about things and maybe *prevent* something like this from happening again. at the very least, talking about these issues, _in addition to physically contributing any way we can_, forces us to think critically about the media, the government, and our responsibilities to one another, and that can only be a good thing (regardless of which side of the political spectrum you fall on).
but you're absolutely right. we definitely need to get in motion and do what we can, and i think your message was a timely one amidst all this kanye talk.
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I was watching this Live last night. I was in the middle of washing some dishes and once I heard Kanye start talking I put more attention on it. I thought to myself at first "Wow, he's not so eloquent or charismatic right now, quite out of character. He must be really torn up by this." Then he got to the real meat of the speech. It was weird watching Myers reactions, you could tell he knew Kanye wasn't saying what he was 'supposed' to be saying. Kanye really got to the point of what has been on all peoples' minds but not many have spoken about until last night. Race has become a major topic now for this hurricane, it was skirted around the first few days, seemed like every reporter was afraid to comment for fear of being labelled a racist. The problem is New Orleans I read somewhere around 65% black population, and of the pop. 29% are below poverty line. When the feds are this slow to respond it's gonna make it look like it's a racist thing, but in reality it's all a class thing. The nation doesn't care about the poor.
Kanye may be a star, but the person who best spoke out on this was the Mayor of New Orleans. I was listening to a 9 min recording of his interview with a radio station. You can find it on the BBC unedited. He really tells it like it is, from ground zero. Either way though, this stuff needs to be said. When people don't speak out against injustice, they get trampled on.
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I guess Kanye is not much of a freestyler, schould have dropped his rant with some slick rhymes!
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"Without freedom, would Kanye be able to have said what he said?"
Well, they did censor it on the west coast feed didn't they? I think it took a lot of balls for Kanye to have said what he did. Conservatives tend to view the world from a seat of privilege, where they've never had to struggle, so they have no sympathy for people who are less fortunate. They want to maintain the status quo and have no interest in making the world a better place because they got theirs and that's all that matters to them. Class divisions will tear this country apart, and these divisions still seem to be based on money and race. As it stands, a poor black child will never have as many opportunities as a white child born to a wealthier family. Connections and networks still seem to be predominant ways of finding jobs, etc. and that "good ol' boy" system is still in place. Republicans don't care because to them these problems might as well not exist. They've lived their whole lives in a privileged bubble. And to those who've made it and turned their backs on the less fortunate, they are the definition of soulless "sellouts".
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Regardless of whether the rant was ill-informed, it should not have been cut out of the West Coast airing. Where are NBC's balls? It deviated from the "script" so it gets cut?
I don't like Bush a bit, but I think this poor response is more about abject incompetence than it is a dislike for black people.
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bravo kanye west!
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i forget who said it, but i agreed; good rant, but really not the right time or place.
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kanye needs to shut the fuck up.
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I blame the state government... the mayor and governor have not shown the necessary leadership in this time of crisis. Instead of setting up a command post and really delegating responsibility, they seem to be hoping someone in the federal government will run things for them. There are simple things that could have been done days ago, including asking for school buses and boats throughout the region for evacuations... that have not been seemingly addressed.
In the United States, powers are split between the state and federal levels. States really have the power, the responsibilities to make sure that their citizens are ok. Sure, the federal level could be helping more here. I wish they would, because the devastation is unnecessary and awful. But the blame really lies on the state government for not recognizing a problem scientists and engineers warned about for years--more infrastructre should have been in place to help in what was a very looming emergency.
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Not only was it cut out of the west coast feed, but he was censored live. As soon as he said the part about Georgie not caring about blacks, they cut right over to chris tucker.
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beth -
the state of louisiana and the city of new orleans have repeatedly asked for funding to update the levees and pump stations. their requests have been denied. in 1999 a bill was passed giving funding and permission to fix the levees and allow states to update infrastructure in preparation for hurricanes. the funding for that bill was cut in 2003.
everyone has a share of blame in how badly this is going, the minority of people acting like roving gangs giving the news something to focus on, the people that could have left but didn't, the city for not having a better evacuation plan for people without cars, and the federal for not funding things initially and not responding quickly enough when the hurricane headed toward NO
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Kanye, you ignorant slut.
Don't you love it when the people that claim to be victims of racism are actually the racists? His music sucks, and he is an idiot. Therefore, he should shut up.
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pete, well said. you are 100% right. mark williams, what makes you think that those posting "negative" comments have not done or given anything?? perhaps we're doubly mad b/c we have given and the gov't (who is SUPPOSED to take care of it) has not! how positive can we be about raising/giving money that's not getting there?
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Even if Kanye were right to say something like that on TV (which he's not...in a time like this, exactly WHO does it help? Name one person helped by Kanye getting on his high horse and saying George Bush doesn't like black people?) no one can really, or has even attempted to defend this comment
"They've given them permission to go down and shoot us." Kanye is a fucking racist, and it showed here. High emotions or not, wtf does that kind of comment even mean? Where's the proof/evidence? You all need to seperate your love of Kanye's music with your opinions about him.
And Clinton was in office 8 years too. Then there was Bush before him, and Regan. None of them did anything about the levee. So to act like this is all Bush Jrs fault is a joke. *Laughs at idiots who take opinions blindly from Michael Moore and Kanye West*
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Kanye is right. This is most definately a race issue and, what I think isn't said enough, also a class issue. Anyone who doesn't recognize that is living in a dream world.
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for all you ignorant fools check http://www.snopes.com/photos/katrina/looters.asp for an explanation of the looter vs finder 'issue'. of course it takes more than 6 brain cells to think about something rather than just respond emotionally.
KANYE IS A DUMMY AND A LOSER.
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john darnielle of the mountain goats and last plane to jakarta says "thank you kanye west."
http://lastplanetojakarta.com/archives/2005/09/cut_and_paste.php
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what's happening in New Orleans has nothing to do with race.
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"Now is not the time," people keep saying. If not now, when? Six months from now, when the powers that be can say "Yes, well that's all in the past now, we have to move on..." BS.
If Bush and his administration weren't shitting themselves at the level of outrage being expressed in the media things would be in a much worse state then they are now (if that's possible). People are dying as we type, I see no better time then now to light a fire under the asses of those responsible for this appalling response.
Bush himself said the response was inadequate, members of his own party call it an embarrassment. If this was a Kerry administration there would be just as much outrage and it would be just as justified. So please, save me the mock outrage.
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What happened in New Orleans is a result of overbuilding, overpopulation, and lack of respect for our environment - that is why the city is now flooded. In regards to our Government's response, there is no excuse. We can spend Billions on wars and then Billions delivering aid and food to those countries (after we bomb the hell out of them) but we let our own die in New Orleans. Bush talks out of both sides of his mouth and trusting him is a huge question. I do wonder if the population in New Orleans were affluent white people, would the resonse have been better? Notice I did not just say whites but the key word is affluent. Our government does not care about our poor (black or white). It is all about money, oil, and power. That is why the Billions are spent in Iraq and Afghanistan, chasing Bin Laden and not facing the poverty in this country. Our gov't wants the oil, wants to control the oil, and nothing else. Unfortunately, the almighty dollar rules and our freedom as Americans is something of the past.
Regarding Kanye, personally I don't like his music and feel he is just propagating his cause using the words black people. Poverty is everyone - Black, white, Asian etc. What about the Vietnamese fishermen in Louisianna and Mississippi that have nothing now? The majority of my best friends are either black or Asian. The New Orleans thing is about money folks, pure and simple........
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This is not a race thing but a class issue. The gap between the affluent and poor has become larger and larger.
W. doesn't not care about black people unless they have Oil tankers named after them or are part of this cabinet.
I mean it doesn't help that he has never visited or met with the head of the NAACP.
But more to the point, W. doesn't like poor people.
Unless when they are fighting a war for him. Then they are heroes.
What about the mishandling of this event as compared to the mishandling of the war? Similar? Why the wait to deploy the guard?
Was Bush reading to a class of 9th graders or something when Katrina hit?
Thank you Kanye for making people talk.
Now get on the phone with your business manager and donate some of your non taxable income to the poor people.
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Take from http://www.alternet.org/story/25008/
---
...The flooding was not a result of heavy rains. It is a result of a weak levee -- one that was in mid-repair when the storm hit. And that levee, which has held back floodwaters for time beyond memory, collapsed for one simple reason: Bush refused to fix it last summer, when local officials were begging him to do so. Instead, he diverted those funds to the war effort.
---
If that's true... goddamn.
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that fox news clip was crazy!
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I've been finding for a long time now that there are restrictions to what one can say and where...
On the simple side of this, there is something like Pitchfork, which you have to say sucks. That's the norm... If you do, no-one dissagrees, if you say it's cool, then people tell you off...
The same applies to what Kanye West did. It did something outside the norm... outside of what is agreed upon.
Society has pre-set rules that are so prevalent that they are almost invisable because no one is strong enough to do something different, to follow their own guts. But when someone breaks this codes of conduct, it can be inspiring.
Kanye West is unpopular,everyone agrees (Except Pitchfork), but what he did was better than anything anyone on this board can do, including me. He did what everyone should be doing, challenging those who are more powerful, those who use that power for their own (usually) monetary gain at the cost of the poor and unfortuante, at the cost of those who can't get a leg up because of those people in power.
Kanye was totally correct to attack Bush, because you are too afraid to.
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i agree with kanye completely. I mean, if new orleans had a predominately white population, george bush would employ his magical white person powers and part the waters like moses so they could all be saved. Instead, he obviously used his magical powers for evil once again and more than likely caused the hurricane himself to teach minorities a lesson for not voting for him.
has anyone else noticed how awesome the prerequisite cynicism that accompanies being a hip twentysomething is? clap your hands say yeah rules!
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OK laloque. First of all, the American people as a whole....be it Kayne West, or the people on this chatboard.....have the right to say whatever they want regarding how they feel towards ANY topic of discussion. (i.e freedom of speech). I am not trying to discredit anyone's opinion at all.
I AGREE (to an extent) with the points Kanye was trying to make, and I also agree with some of the remarks made on this chatboard, and I didn't by any means try to say people didn't have the right to express their anger about this situation. However, you can only rant and rave so much. To all the people that really care, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Cursing behind a computer screen and keying in profanities about our idiotic government might be therapy for some people, and I welcome (and find some humor) in what people have to say. But damn, if you feel so strongly about something....try to figure out how you can help the situation, not repetitivly state the obvious. The real topic of discussion should be how to help these unfortunate people, not keep talking about how the leaders of America let us down again....what else is new....
And how can you say that contributing to the red cross (or any other charitable organization) doesn't get there or help. Your sadly mistaken. Whether the money we donated put fuel in a helicopter, or fed a family for a week....it's bound to make some kind of difference. A hell of a lot more difference than saying "Fuck Bush"
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The best part of that clip is Mike Myers' botoxed face
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And yes, Pete, you did make some excellent points. The government COULD and SHOULD have done so much more in preperation, and in the aftermath of this (or any) tragedy. However they didn't.
I am appauled by this situation, especially given the events that have unfolded over the last 4 years. Unfortunatly, being appauled and irrate won't get you far (except leaving a sick feeling in your stomach). The only thing we can do as concerned Americans is try to make up were our government lacks (which is a lot). Send help, everything you give will come back to you 10-fold. And VOTE for God's sake, VOTE!
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Hey Steregum - upcoming blogs should be on how much Kanye's CD's sales have increased! I am serious and would love to see what the numbers are....
Money, get away
Get a good job with more pay and your O.K.
Money it's a gas
Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash
New car, caviar, four star daydream,
Think I'll buy me a football team
Money get back
I'm all right Jack keep your hands off my stack.
Money it's a hit
Don't give me that do goody good bullshit
I'm in the hi-fidelity first class traveling set
And I think I need a Lear jet
Money it's a crime
Share it fairly but don't take a slice of my pie
Money so they say
Is the root of all evil today
But if you ask for a rise it's no surprise that they're
giving none away
Everyone should go visit this site:
http://www.brianjonestownmassacre.com
Anton may be a dick but he gives all his music away for free..........
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I wonder if his albums sales rise next week?
As someone mentioned before, that was the wrong place/time to rant.
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Do something
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i'd post my thoughts, but i feel s-bot and emily did a better job than i could.
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Wow. This is one of the best discussions I've seen in a long time. I'm dissapointed though by the number of comments merely stating that "Kanye chose the wrong time to say something, "Or shut up Kanye". Even worse, I'm disgusted by the people who are saying that "it's not a race issue" or "it's a class issue, not a race issue".
How can we seperate the two? Are they not inextricably linked? Race, gender, class...the holy trinity. Taking this out of race for a second, think about how women were denied the right to vote for so long. Were they denied the vote because they had no property or wealth to contribute to society so their opinions did not matter? Or did they have no property because they were women? And so goes the debate. See how it's all tied together, they cannot be seperated.
As for Kanye choosing the right time. The only thing I can say to that is: when is the right time to point out the inequalities that are prevalent in our society? Would it have been better if Kanye had done it on his site where only people with similar ideological beliefs would have seen it? Ummm...no. He picked a great forum, it's just too bad the discussion could not have been furthered, but to paraphrase Lauer, "he's just emotional."
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"And Clinton was in office 8 years too. Then there was Bush before him, and Regan. None of them did anything about the levee. So to act like this is all Bush Jr.s fault is a joke."
Well, it might not be all his fault for the levee being in ill repair to begin with, but that argument is pretty weak, he did nothing pro-active to help it, and cut back the FEMA funding for the repair so…
This is from the Governor of LA:
"They have M-16s and are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot and kill and I expect they will."
So Kanye is sort of right about that one.
Brian Jonestown Massacre gives their music away for free because no one will buy it.
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Regarding BJM: Music is in the ear of the beholder Adam and your opinion is as good as mine. That is what makes music so powerful and so worthy of attention!
Regarding Mr. Bush:
The problem of power is how to achieve its responsible use rather than its irresponsible and indulgent use - of how to get men of power to live for the public rather than off the public.
Robert F. Kennedy
Excellent comments on this blog and thanks to Stereogum for the thought provoking exercise!
David
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I liked Kanye's comments, though it was a little out of place. I don't think it's purely a race issue, but it has a lot of race and class overtones to it - the looting versus finding thing, yes, (and the race portrayal in the media goes deeper than that to me) but the looting has deeper sociological roots. N.O. is a very segregated city, in terms of class and race, so the rioting, (to me, and I could be wrong) is a release of years of oppression.
Obviously, that doesn't excuse anything. But it's an explanation.
And how is Kanye a racist? "He doesn't like white people"...whatever. So you can't make a comment about race now without being racist against white people? Christ. As whites, we're mighty priviledged (sp?). We can take a little racism. I hate it when white people whine about reverse racism. Suck it up, we're benefitting more from it than not.
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You're right adam, Kanye is "sort of" right about that one. Both you and Kanye somehow overlook the fact that the initially sent in for relief efforts were met with guns in their faces, not to mention nurses volunteering around the clock at tulane hospital being held up at gun point. Does shooting back at someone who shoots at you make you a racist?
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rmj, it's nice that your liberal guilt allows you to "take a little racism", but believe it or not, someday you will graduate from college and have to function in reality. racism is wrong regardless of the target.
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wow. so hyperbole carries the day, eh?
a whole bunch of people who know nothing about logistics or the exact nature and extent of the catastrophe get together and
decide that kanye was correct and that yes, bush does not care about blacks. i mean, everything always comes down to colour or money doesn't it? that is the simple answer to everything, is it not?
brilliant. now i am reminded why i hate america. if this is the face and the intelligence of the opposition of bush, the republicans will never, ever lose again. you might as well give up, they are to smart for you. they will become like the ldp are rule over your poor souls regardless how corrupt or inept they are.
""They have M-16s and are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot and kill and I expect they will."
So Kanye is sort of right about that one."
so, you are saying that all the armed, rampaging looters are black? or are you saying that national guard members are just going to go to new orleans and kill black people? i kind of missed that in her comments, but guessing from your post, i should take that as a correct inference. thank you. i had no idea.
i'm just curious, what other country do you think could gather the logistics to respond better than the american's have. japan? no, i remember the great hanshin earthquake. e.u. countries? no, i remember the massive flooding.
the logistics in this situation are so massive, i do indeed fail to see how anyone can realise such vitriol so soon. to be honest, it seems a bit pathetic.
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Kanye's album was already poised to sell close to 800,000 copies this week (according to midweek Soundscan reports) before the benefit outburst, but I'm sure everyone will credit his success to the controversy. Fact is, it's a good album. That he was totally right to say what he did is only icing on the cake.
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I assume that people in Louisiana aren't chiming in because they're too busy for internet.
Having spent a lot of time in Louisiana as an outsider, I must say that there is a real disparity in LA between black and white. There's a big difference between the perception of the white poor and the black poor in LA as well. It's sad.
I don't know who to blame in govt., and I don't think it even matters. What is ultimately to blame is the southern culture there that still relegates blacks to second-rate citizens.
Watching the news is like watching '28 Days Later' crazy.
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villalobos, it ain't difficult to believe that most industrialized, Western nations would and could have bothered to mobilize and send federal aid and workers within FIVE days of one of its major cities being devastated by a national disaster they had 48 hours to plan for.
Granted, in most industrialized, Western nations, their leaders wouldn't be on vacation under those circumstances either...
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Can we talk about Britney Spears now? Please?
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"No one cares about disasters until they happen. That is a political fact of life," - david mcentire, professor of emergency management at the university of north texas.
huzzah! someone finally nails it! it is not a black versus white issue and it is not a poor versus rich issue. it is the fact that no one is really prepared for a disaster.
i know that the government here in tokyo is not really prepared for the inevitable. someday, we will be hit by a massive earthquake and the result will be terrible. and everyone will wonder where the government is. it is always the same. the lesson will never be learned.
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huzzah! someone finally nails it! it is not a black versus white issue and it is not a poor versus rich issue. it is the fact that no one is really prepared for a disaster.
wrong. the middle- and upper-class citizens of the city were finanically prepared to mobilize themselves and leave; the poor were not. and the government did very little to assist them, both before the hurricane landed and for days afterward.
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No, reg, you're right, racism's never right, that's not what I meant exactly. It's an Internet board, so I overstated my case a little bit. I guess I'm saying is that it's a lot worse for black people than it is for white people. Maybe I'll see it differently when I graduate.
Villalobos....get off you high goddamn horse. Come on. All of us, including and especially you, are just jackasses spouting off on an internet forum. You know as well as anyone that this is not the singular "intelligence and face of opposition against bush". Christ. Hyperbole much, hypocrite? We're saying whatever comes to minds, first reaction, and it comes out sounding stupid. These aren't major policy speeches or New York Times editorials or anything that actually makes a difference. They're rantings, first-instinct opinions on a POP CULTURE WEBSITE. They don't go through a first or second draft (as you demonstrate). Logistics? We, myself included and ESPECIALLY you, barely even have time for basic grammar, spelling, punctuation, and capitalization, let alone well-thought-out opinions. This is our way of thinking out our opinions. We're not running the DNC (not that they're that smart). Sometimes we're wrong, sometimes we overstate, we're not meticulously informed, we're just citizens. Discourse on this website does not have to be up to the standards of more formal and important areas of conversation. If you're so much smarter and more logical than us, then why the hell are you here? Just to chastise us? Show us the light? Belittle us?
Good job, loser. You've got no better idea what's going on than any of the rest of us.
Scottpl, thanks for your comments. You're doing a much better job than I am.
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MAYBE the same guy who invented Aids to kill blacks people created Katrina .... A BIG Keanu Reeves WHOA for that one!
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"so, you are saying that all the armed, rampaging looters are black? or are you saying that national guard members are just going to go to new orleans and kill black people? i kind of missed that in her comments, but guessing from your post, i should take that as a correct inference. thank you. i had no idea."
How did you derive that first sentece from "So Kanye is sort of right about that one."?
There was martial law declared partially in the city and a shoot-to-kill policy issued. I was talking about the part when he said "They have given them permission to shoot us."
He IS *sort of* right about it. It's not passive voice I'm employing.
(Where are italics and boldface when you need them?)
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Let's see how much money Mr. Kanye West will donate. C'mon now, like he said, he went shopping. Is everything to be blamed on George Bush? What about the Governor, Mayor and other City officials. City and State officials should have prepared for this disaster. Please people, don't make this a race issue. It's time to stop complaining and do someting about it. Write a check to the "American Red Cross." We have family members too who also lost their house, they are hungry, but thankful to be living. They would like to move forward.
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Humor....
Late breaking news.....
New Orleans Superdome to be renamed New Orleans Sewerdome
Brian Jonestown Massacre and Kayne West to collaborate on a new CD tentatively titled "Katrina" - rumor is Britney Spears is writing the tracks
Geraldo reports for CNN that we need some damn Fried Chicken and Watermelon down here instead of those damn MRE's..... Bush agrees in an exclusive
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I guess it can't be too soon if it's still going on eh?
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Humor is always based on a modicum of truth. Have you ever heard a joke about a father-in-law?
Dick Clark
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Geez Villalobos, if all it takes to get quoted by you is to be a professor, I'm choosing that career path.
Emergency responses will never be adequate, because it's an emergency situation as things never go as planned. I think that's why it's called an emergency - no?
But let me point out that Bush's policy is built around "emergency preparedness" in light of all the "terrorism". Speaking of which...homeland security is long overdue for an orange or red alert. But that's a whole other topic.
This government who so willingly invades our privacy rights and civil liberties in order to be prepared for a terrorist attack took 48 hours to respond to a natural disaster! Next they'll have to ask Osama to e-mail them before his next terrorist attack.
48 hours is just perposterous and unacceptable. And as scottpl points, vacationing at the same time is even more unacceptable.
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"I assume that people in Louisiana aren't chiming in because they're too busy for internet.
Having spent a lot of time in Louisiana as an outsider, I must say that there is a real disparity in LA between black and white. There's a big difference between the perception of the white poor and the black poor in LA as well. It's sad.
I don't know who to blame in govt., and I don't think it even matters. What is ultimately to blame is the southern culture there that still relegates blacks to second-rate citizens.
Watching the news is like watching '28 Days Later' crazy."
Very true indeed, Paul. I live in Louisiana, and it's a mess. You basically nailed it better than I could have.
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Why are you all picking on Villalobos, he has a point...
"No one cares about disasters until they happen. That is a political fact of life," - david mcentire, professor of emergency management at the university of north texas.
huzzah! someone finally nails it! it is not a black versus white issue and it is not a poor versus rich issue. it is the fact that no one is really prepared for a disaster.
i know that the government here in tokyo is not really prepared for the inevitable. someday, we will be hit by a massive earthquake and the result will be terrible. and everyone will wonder where the government is. it is always the same. the lesson will never be learned.
Engineers working on the levees in New Orleans studied what the Dutch has done regarding their system. They did not follow what the study suggested and did not properly do the work in New Orleans. Japan may not be able to handle a worst case Quake but their building construction is an engineering marvel, well planned and well constructed and well thought out..... He has a point....
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Kanye chose as good a time as any, in my opinion, to make a statement. I'm sure many people probably would have said that John Stewart picked an "inappropriate time" to call the Crossfire hosts dicks, but honestly, what time would have been more appropriate? Behind their backs when he was in his car driving home and nobody would have heard him?
And we all aplauded Stewart. He's popular, and a lot of us would like to think he's representing us in some way.
Now, we don't always agree with what Kanye says or does. He's a much more controversial figure. Still, if what he said did have at least SOME merit (and virtually everybody so far seems to agree that it did), then when SHOULD he have said it? If it's worthwhile, then it's worthwhile, and the more people that hear it, the better. He wasn't advocating anythng detrimental. He was trying to get more people to give more money to the Red Cross, and presented a new reason for why they should act immediately, one that might convince people who would otherwise ignore the plea.
I think Kanye is an awful and untalented musician and an arrogant ass. But I can't fault him here. Challenging peoples' ideology can only be good thing for our country.
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Louisiana is approximately 80% Black. Two Thirds of the population in Louisiana are under the poverty level. The question you want to ask is why? Well, Slavery is officially dead but the oppression of the classes is still rampant in the 'deep south'. I say classes because oppression is not being limited to the Black population, but anyone the ruling class wants to oppress they do. Black, hispanics, europeans, canadians, women, single mom's you name it, and I will find an example of oppression. I would contend Bush hates blacks and anyone else beneath 'his class'. So here we are, someone finally said it. Congrats Kanye, maybe people will stand up and realize their success may be built on the backs of good people that are being treated unfairly.
The New Orleans situation is a terrifying example of the degradation of society. I bet the Bush cabinet is secretly cheering the many deaths of the blacks and the poor. Remember, this is the administration with ties to Haliburton, Enron and others who were caught on tape during the Cali wildfires chanting, 'Burn baby burn'. Gee, where have we heard that line before?
Mr. Bush, you don't deserve the title President of the US. You are a fraud, a fake, and a terrible liar. And you're a shitty cowboy too.
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Puhleeeeeeeeze. Blacks making up a large portion of those living in poverty is not exclusive to the south. Please name a state in this country where that is not the case (not counting states that have a very low percentage of blacks). The issues causing this are much, much bigger than can be stuffed into a southern bigotry pigeonhole! The fact that a large portion of the population of New Orleans or Louisiana is black, and is poverty-stricken, makes the problem more obvious, but the problem exists across the nation.
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Amen to the comments made by Cali and John! Its so easy for people to take the completely ignorant stance of "this is all Bush's fault" and playing the race card. I have to ask, where the Hell is the mayor of New Orleans and the governor of Louisiana? Why haven't they been blamed for not stepping up as leaders???
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Courtney, so many people are blaming the mayor and governor of our state. And I take it you haven't heard Mayor Ray Nagin's speech. They honestly did what they could. This happened so fast and resources were severely limited. Ridiculous? Absolutely. But if you're going to blame anyone, it should be past politicians who were aware of the risks we had here and not people who have only been in office for only one or two years.
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Bravo Kayne for speaking what TONZ of Americans who are fed up with the Government and The Media Feel. Even way before he said it I saw as well as a big group of my friends knew it. I was just waiting for other's to catch on. As an American I can once again feel embarrassed of our nation. A nation that is so full of shit. How many times people do we need Bush to shit on us before we realize he and his team need to go. I just hope that if there is a God that he remembers this ... How many people need to Die Mr .Bush before it gets into your mind that "Help in on the way".. UHHH. Sometimes I wish you would just go away.
Oh and don't send your evil Wife to the press MRS.-Bush to ease things off. Be a man and get down there and help people. Stop being a pussy-!!
Fox News once again you prove your self as the most racist network and Bias. Why don't you just have Klux Klan as you news broad casters.
Angry White Woman in NYC!!!
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"They've given them permission to go down and shoot us."
No, they've been given permission to shoot the motherfuckers who are killing aid workers trying to evacuate hospitals. By "us" do you claim those same motherfuckers are black?
I've never been to LA so I don't know the level of incipient racism in the area, but it would seem most of the National Guard troops are from out of state anyway, so why would it make any particular difference? And enough hysterical shrieking about the NG shooting those searching for food and water. They aren't morons, stop treating them as such: they're shooting those who are lighting buildings on fire - buildings lacking both gas and electricity - and raping, etc. If these people were truly searching for basic necessities, then they wouldn't be shooting at aid workers. A fact remains undiscussed: some - not all, but some - of the people who stayed in New Orleans even after it became apparent the city would be an aquarium in 24 hours did so because they knew it would be a prime time for looting. If the city is evacuated, all the Walmarts, drug stores, and attics are open for business. The NG isn't about to shoot anybody for pissing in the streetwater, they're going to shoot somebody for blocking the doors to the hospital, and if the person doing so happens to be black, it still remains a tragedy not for blacks but for the entire human race for producing such a low specimen of life.
anyone with half-a-brain would realize that if this disaster was in an economic center all the stops would be pulled out.
Go check your gas prices, idiot. Katrina completely destabilized the Gulf's oil resources. Atlanta's going through a massive gas panic at the moment, with seven dollars to the gallon. NO is also home to the fifth largest port in the world. This is costing the federal government an extraordinary amount of money.
Not to mention Louisiana is a "red state", located in the South. Destroying your base, much?
This is such a ridiculous issue. Bush might be a moron but you really think he's so apathetic towards poor blacks that he'd intentionally let them starve in the streets? You think he'd alienate his Christian, Southern base by ignoring a massive natural disaster? This is not a sign of racism, it's a sign of massive incompetence on local, state, and federal levels. Voters should have demanded at some point in the past decade to fix the levees, the mayor should have gotten off his ass and declared a mandatory evacuation two days before he did, the government needs to figure out what in the hell it is doing. To be fair, this is the largest scale migration in the US since the Civil War, so not all of the logistical screwups should be attributed to pure stupidity, but the most troubling aspect of this isn't racism, it's security.
Bush has spent almost eight years reassuring America that he can keep us safe. You really think some latent prejudice would be enough for him to display to American citizens his complete inability to do so? Short of an another actual terrorist attack, his failure to send aid in an expedient manner is the most damaging thing he could do to his current rhetoric. The government isn't dragging its feet, it doesn't know where to go.
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diana:
that's me you're calling an idiot. thank you for that. much like the racist jokesters here, it took a long time for the aggressive posters to get here and do away with civilized discussion through name-calling.
of course new orleans is a crucial site for federal economic interests. all major cities - in any country - are. not to mention the fact that it houses a number of unique and important cultural and historical artifacts that seem like they could be lost. of course Bush doesn't want any of that to happen, and maybe I wasn't clear in what I meant when I used the term "economic center". maybe i should have just called it "predominantly white, affluent area". my bad.
the point i was trying to make - what i think a number of people here were trying to make - is that there seems to be two sets of conceptual frameworks for emergency response. the one is swift, even pre-emptive action, to ensure minimal effect, and the second is what you're seeing now. and these two frameworks seem to correspond to class lines, which in turn correspond to race lines. while he couldn't have averted the general disaster to the area, i think people are generally upset with the way things have been handled in downtown new orleans.
of course Katrina was going to destroy the coast, and cause the very same economic problems you're noting. no one is saying Bush should have stood out there with an umbrella. but goddamn, you're telling me as President he couldn't have done more? do you think tripping around on a medicare tour with senior citizens on August 29 was a good plan? Do you think pandering to his voters in Arizona while Katrina was about to bear down on Louisiana was a great way to prepare himself and the nation for what was about to happen? do you think that's a good way to prepare? do you think that's what the national leader should be doing?
of course you don't. you've said as much. but what would you call what's been happening? if it was capitol hill at risk, do you think he would have been traipsing around out west in the days leading up to it? if it was manhattan, don't you think he would have been more organized for pre-emptive action? you're right, the federal government is completely useless and this proves it, but what kanye was implicitly saying, and what i agree with, is that if the circumstances of those affected were different, the government would have done more, either pre/post event. if you don't see that, then there's nothing i can say. you're entitled to your opinion.
of course the state and local governments screwed up. and i hope they're accountable when that time comes. but the problem for a lot of us is that bush isn't intentionally doing anything. and that's the ultimate problem. he's been negligent. and that negligence, many feel, is attributable to an institutional racism constantly at play in america. it may not always be visible, but it can be felt in its effects. and its those effects you're seeing right now. you're right to call it "stupidity" and note this is a "security" problem, but to not see that race and class are also involved is to fall short.
he's not just some guy with a job, he's the president for christ's sake. he needs to take the blame when shit goes wrong, and he needs to take the blame when shit goes bad.
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Wait, did I miss something? When did this become a debate about what should have been done before Katrina even hit. Are we not talking about the response to Katrina and how it was poorly handled?
Yes, past political leaders should have dealt with the levees. They were wrong. Here's the thing, they didn't. And now it's on Bush to deal with the outcome, which he didn't do properly.
And it's not absurd to think Bush is apathetic to blacks. Think of all the terrible things that happened to the Iraqi people and even American soldiers in his quest to find "WMDs". The point still remains the same. If you don't fit into his designs, you're screwed.
Kudos Philabuster, Rob, and S-bot.
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Kanye West doesn't lie.
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so...isn't it the governor of louisiana's job to call up the louisiana national guard? i believe it is.
oh and, it was actually president bush who urged the governor to call for an evacuation of NO.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1475914/posts
and don't you wonder why we've never seen stuff like this in past hurricanes? one big reason: local authorities are actually prepared. in florida jeb bush had buses set up to evacuate people who couldn't leave on their own. why didn't that happen here? incompetence.
From the city of new orleans "hurricane plan" concerning duties and responsibilities.
http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26
A. Mayor
* Initiate the evacuation.
* Retain overall control of all evacuation procedures via EOC operations.
* Authorize return to evacuated areas.
hmmm...guess he fucked up. but it must be the federal government's fault...
and guess what, it's a little hard for mommy federal government to come clean up the mess when the bridges are out and people are shooting at them.
i wish they would've gotten there faster. and i hope we reassess our disaster plans. but if you're looking to blame this on racism and bush, you're just showing your own prejudice.
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After he "contacts his manager" i'd like to see the numbers on how much kanye gives to Katrina victims this year vs. how much he gives to jacob the jeweler.
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ha ha fuck you all america is gay kanye is a fat faced fag
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if you disagree with what i said feel free to add me to msn stestewart2005@hotmail.com
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I would love to have been a fly on the wall hearing what Kanye heard in the studio from people at NBC and other celebs he was surrounded by when he walked out of tha building, got in his limousine, and headed home.
His comments will be heralded as one of the turning points in the efforts to save lives in the Gulf Coast region because think about it:
If you're George Bush, you don't want Kanye West to be right. So you're going to do everything you can to make sure what he just told the world isn't true. If you don't, you're going to lose.
Kanye's comment was a brave and brilliant chess move.
And remember: Kanye didn't JUST say "George Bush doesn't care about black people," he also mentioned the poor and the less well-off as getting aid "as slowly as possible".
You freepers might not like what he said, and if you didn't then GOOD. You shouldn't. Instead of trying to spin the whole fucking thing, you ought to be out doing something to prove Kanye West is wrong.
If you can't or you won't, you were too fucked in the head before this tragedy and the chances are good you'll be totally fucked after this tragedy.
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bravo kanye because what he did and said took a lot of guts. I've just gained a lot of respect for this man and just became a fan what he said was true whether you want to believe it's a race issue or not i know people (white) nowadays don't like to talk about it whether it makes them comfortable or not but the fact that he bring the race issue in this it is what it is i think people should realize that i don't want to say goverment but bush doesn't care about black people
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Dear Sharon,
Given the numerous numerical facts mentioned in my article, it is humourous that you 'pigeonhole' my description of the problem as limited to the 'deep south'. I am overly aware of demographics across North America. Of course you're correct that it's absurd to call the oppression of the classes a problem of the southern US. It is, however, much easier to see in the south due to the idealogies of the people living there. As recently as 1995, a white man ran for the seat of gov'nur [sic] and publically proclaimed he was a racist. I don't think you will see many gubernatorial candidates proclaiming they are card carrying members of the KKK in the state of New York.
Allow me to break it down like this, if you can repair the class disparity in the south, you can repair it anywhere in the country.
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While I agree that he was 'brave' in saying that, I have lost all respect for Kanye West. I was a big fan of his and now regret that I even bought his latest CD.
First off, what do people think that Bush could have done about this? He's the president, he can't stop Mother Nature. Yes, aid should have been quicker, but sitting here that is really easy to say. Can you imagine the logistical problems getting to that area when all of this is going on? Not only is everything wiped away (airports, roads, etc.), but when they tried to bring in helicopters people were shooting at them. Would it have been better for them to keep coming and get hit with a bullet only to crash in a sea of people and take out a couple hundred of them? I would head out too if I were the helicopter pilot.
There really is no point in planning 'disaster recovery' because every situation is different and has it's own problems. I realize this, and while I do agree that you'd think something could be done quicker, I don't think this is 'all Bush's fault' like a lot of you do.
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And, this is pretty good publicity for Kanye's recently released album isn't it?
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Kanye is another example of annoying blacks who want to blame everything on race. When in doubt throw in the race card. As far as i'm concerned he should be there looting and shooting at the national guard with his friends.
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Jen said:
First off, what do people think that Bush could have done about this? He's the president, he can't stop Mother Nature.
---------------------------------------------------
In 2001, FEMA warned that a hurricane striking New Orleans was one of the three most likely disasters in the U.S. But the Bush administration cut New Orleans flood control funding by 44 percent to pay for the Iraq war.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg. He could have done a lot before this even happened, instead his adminstration made cuts vital to protecting the infrastructure of the region.
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Jen, with respect, I think you're misrepresenting people's arguments here. No one is saying this all Bush's fault or that he is somehow in control of mother nature.
It's his administration's response to this disaster that people have legitimate complaints with. There is plenty of blame to spread around at the local, state and federal level, but Bush is the top dog, and as the saying goes, the buck stops with him.
No administration, no matter what their political stripe, would be getting an easy ride with these results.
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I live in Mississippi. I would like to thank all of those who have given blood, dontated money, given food, clothing, etc. It is nice to see America coming to the rescue of their own.
What people in MS and LA have gone through is unimaginable. The things we are seeing are devastating. It kills me to see that so many are taking this tragedy and turning it into a political battle, a race issue, or using it as a media ploy. THIS IS NOT THE TIME FOR ANY OF IT. Yes, many dropped the ball in the rescue of so many people and that has been admitted. However, the blame cannot lie on one person. There was local, state govt that had their part to do in LA and did not. I just don't see how anyone could EVER be fully prepared for something of this magnitude. Please stop using this tragedy for personal forums.
Many have died and more are. Families like some of my family members have lost their homes. Like many others, we still have loved ones missing. And people want to use this time, their energy, to place blame? To complain, to gripe, to get their 15 minutes? Everyone is entitled to their opinions. However, I urge you to use that time and energy to help the victims.
The road to recovery will be a long, hard one. But I am confident that the people of MS and LA will get through this. The people in MS have shown their strength. We have the "good ole boy" factor in so many of us and a strong work ethic to jump in, help our neighbors, and get this cleaned up. I know we can do it. But we need help. Everyone of you can help in some way. No gesture is too small. Just please, please, stop dividing, stop with the politics, the race issues and focus on what is a proactive approach to helping your fellow Americans. We appreciate it more than you know.
Their will be plenty of time later to look back, see what mistakes were made, and to learn from them. And we all will.
God be with all of the victims.
www.redcross.org
Written with much love and hope.
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Dear Amy,
After reading your comment I would like to offer you a Hug and a nice cold drink. Maybe you can't and won't see it right now b/c this experince might have humbled you a bit but maybe later then you will understand why a lot of people including Kayne are just a tadd upset.
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Was anybody acting like this in the days after 9/11?
This country is beyond repair and beyond ignorant when it comes to race. I think your middle class educations constricted your minds with Political Correctness - none of you are even able to express the racism that's deep within your hearts. And because you're guilty of that, you try and cover it up but when the shit hits the fan we know how you really feel.
More people died than on 9/11. A city was still standing after 9/11. And I guarantee you 90% of the white people in this country were trying to enjoy their three day weekend rather than mourn for a second for the TEN FUCKING THOUSAND dead people and the other HUNDRED THOUSAND who were deprived of food and water for 5 days. Their children were there. They say their elderly die in front of them. Those people have to keep living.
I'm sick and fucking tired in this country of being told when it's ok to speak about something. First they shut the journalists up by doing that, now they've shut us up. That's because you all want the idea of the subservient kind negro who doesn't get out of their place. You don't want the RAW HONEST TRUTH. It's gotten so bad we all just shut up. If the basic facts of what has happened don't move you to outrage or understand outrage, then you are no longer human or you have some issues regarding race you've never honestly confronted. Look in the mirror. Bitches. Kanye is dat nigga!!!!!
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I read through about 20 posts before mentioning this. Maybe they finally got around to discussing it. People are giving props to K.W. when his selfish rant caused many to turn off a broadcast that was intended to benefit disaster victims. REMEMBER THEM?
Last night was not supposed to be about Kanye West. He is a person with acess to the media and has plenty of opportunities to get his political viwepoints out.
He screwed hurricane victims with his selfish rant. I detest Bush, but absolutely disagree with what Kanye did.
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Welp, thats what happens when you knowingly decide to live that close to the ocean and 5 fucking feet below it. I mean c'mon, If I stick my dick an inch from a steel bladed fan and sneeze and cut it off....are you gonna feel bad for me?
Please people, were only 3 little steps from primal instinct in the lifespan of this earth. May the strong surive.
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Kassim, when you make statements like "none of you are even able to express the racism that's deep within your hearts," you are making a blanket statement which is the trademark of bigots. When you use the word "bitches" you show you have no respect for women. You have your own issues to deal with. People in glass house.......
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New Orleans was built below sea level. The people who lived there chose to live in a city, mind you the ONLY CITY IN THE WORLD that is located BELOW SEA LEVEL and is RIGHT NEXT TO THE FUCKING OCEAN.
Now it's clearly very difficult for the majority of the public to realize this but even though New Orleans is 200 years old and nothing like this had ever occurred on this scale before, this was BOUND TO HAPPEN.
How is a Hurricane and New Orleans location George Bush's fault? How can any person honestly side with the mindset that the government is withholding their support due to a race issue. The levies broke on the second day.....so how in the hell was the federal government supposed to know they were going to have to round up 600 buses and solidify locations for 100,000 people on day one?
The city is 70% black and 30% white, you have an inept white female Democrat governor and a white limpwristed Democratic Mayor at the helm. Why are they not stepping forward with some authority and conviction? Why is no one calling them out for their inability to lead in this time of crisis?
New Orleans has been a city based on gambling, drinking and debaucery since it was established and now it's paying the price for it's past.
And fuck Kanye for running his mouth during a FUNDRAISER, it might have been the right time but in no way was it the right place. Tasteless
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On a personal note, one of my best friends works in the editorial department at the New Orleans Times Picayune, and just before I found this board I received my first email from him since the disaster. He still has not been able to get in touch with many of his friends and co-workers.
If you wish to use your time on this planet to preach hatred and intolerance, that is your right. But a decent respect to the people who have died and are dying, displaced and suffering, should require that each and every one of us use THIS time to think of those people, the victims.
You sound like you have lot's of energy Kassim, try focusing it on what you can do to help the victims of Hurricane Katrina.
You can go back to being a hater any time.
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I am a fan of Kanye West, however, I am disappointed that he would use his airtime to bash Bush. It's one thing if he were at a rally or convention, but he was supposed to be provoking people to raise money for the Red Cross. Instead, he chose to put himself in the spotlight. Also, the comment on the black people being portrayed poorly in the media is ridiculous. I saw coverage and witnessed people of ALL races looting. This isn't a time to be focusing on a artist's opinion of the president, but rather a time to be pulling together to help the victims of Hurricane Katrina.
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http://www.citymayors.com/mayors/new_orleans_mayor.html
Yup, just your typical white, limpwristed, Democratic, American mayor.
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(responding to this)
"The city is 70% black and 30% white, you have an inept white female Democrat governor and a white limpwristed Democratic Mayor at the helm. Why are they not stepping forward with some authority and conviction? Why is no one calling them out for their inability to lead in this time of crisis?"
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Adam, God bless you.
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kanye west said everything that needed to be said.
george w bush can suck deeeez nuuuutz.
btw, did you see the look on myers and tucker's faces? they looked like they soiled their undies.
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Rosie, what needed to be said was, "Please help the victims by contributing money." He could have made his statement on Air America, or many other sources.
His selfish rant cost hurricane victims money for help they need desperately, only you are too ignorant and hate-addled to realize that.
It was a fundraiser!!!!!! TV sets turned off when Kanye selfishly took the focus off the dying and the hungry and the sick and the wounded and instead focused it on himself. He damaged the relief effort as surely as the thugs who fired potshots at rescue choppers. Kanye should be ashamed.
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Jesus, now were blaming the victims? Pathetic.
So, what next #1 Hater, should we evacuate California because, you know, the big one is coming? Oh, wait, the sinners have it coming anyway, right?
Tell me, were all the churchs wiped out by Katrina a part of God's plan too?
Dumb ass.
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John Tierney in the New York Times (he is one of their 2 right-wing editorialists) and an editorial in yesterday's Washington Times both blamed the people of New Orleans for the crisis. There is a wholehearted, indivisible committment from some on the right to shift blame away from the Bush administration. It is their only option right now, they have totally screwed themselves with their hubris and ineptitude, and can not handle the truth because the truth is they are leading America to ruination.
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ok i'm actually not sure about any of the racism allegations but the government is sure handling the aftermath of the flooding a little poorly. forcing people to stay in the superdome with armed guards in horrible living conditions without enough food or proper sanitation is just wrong. why have they turned disaster victims into prisoners and the superdome into a prison? they have also blocked the red cross from entering louisiana to help because they have determined it's too dangerous for them. the government is once again acting as "big brother", thinking that they know better than others what is good for them. i would rather take my chances on my own than to live in conditions described here in the la times:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-superdome1sep01,0,4489032.story?coll=la-home-headlines
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wwww.redcross.org
wwww.unitedway.org
www.feedthechildren.org
If you can, please do everything to try and help the people affected by this awful event. Now then, onto the current issue...
I say right the fuck on. Kanye West as always been an outspoken and brave figure in music, and one of the few major contemporary musicians with the balls to say things that might piss someone off, because he believes it. I rememeber at Live 8 he brought up the fact that a lot of the black population (a great deal percentage more than the white community) is affected by AIDS, but people don't talk about that as much. The truth is George W. Bush may not actively "hate" black people (it'd be hard to do so and have one as your Secretary of State for two consecutive terms), but he doesn't care about them as a group. All he cares about is himself, and that's the plain truth. Good for you Kanye, for bringing up an important issue in a time when people might not be so apt to think about the people actually involved in this crisis. After 9/11 it was said we shouldn't offer criticism either, that we should just go along with whatever our present and did and pass the PATRIOT act or vote for a war we didn't need to go into. As for the people who defend Bush... god damn, can you drop your blnd party line towing for just once and admit your guy did a major mess up? The state and local authorities were supposed to handle it? Yea, the fire department can totally handle an entire major city SINKING INTO THE OCEAN. One of the most important ports in our country that carries a great deal of the grain and corn and other supplies this country exports and that leads to an area (the Gulf of Mexico) that contains one third of our nation's oil supply I THINK QUALIFIES AS A FEDERAL PROBLEM!! Maybe we couldn't have predicted it (which I highly dispute. Radar is a powerful thing). Maybe it was too much of a surprise to act in time. But still, there is a lot that could've been done that wasn't. And if the president wants to help the people he supposedly cares about he should his ass off his ranch and out of New Orleans holding press conferences and back to Washington. Also, you know, one thing he does have power over is fucking not accepting foreign aid from other countries. That is just an arrogant move that says we don't really give a damn about fixing this. He also could've done something about it by reinforcing the levees (that've been there since the city was built), by not destroying wetlands and taking away a natural sheild from the wind and rains, and not allowing developers bulldoze over the land. Or, you know, he could've not lied us into a war and sent thousands of troops (including plenty of Guardsmen) to die when they should've been helping fight a crisis like this. But whatever. The simple truth his the president and his administration and everyone involved handled this the wrong way. Now the people who least deserve it are paying dearly. Isn't that always the way?
And to the people who say it's the people who live their's own fault for not leaving sooner or for just being there in the first place, wow, fuck you right to hell. Talk about not thinking about the victims.
Rant end. Hope I didn't go off the page...
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wwww.redcross.org
wwww.unitedway.org
www.feedthechildren.org
If you can, please do everything to try and help the people affected by this awful event. Now then, onto the current issue...
I say right the fuck on. Kanye West as always been an outspoken and brave figure in music, and one of the few major contemporary musicians with the balls to say things that might piss someone off, because he believes it. I rememeber at Live 8 he brought up the fact that a lot of the black population (a great deal percentage more than the white community) is affected by AIDS, but people don't talk about that as much. The truth is George W. Bush may not actively "hate" black people (it'd be hard to do so and have one as your Secretary of State for two consecutive terms), but he doesn't care about them as a group. All he cares about is himself, and that's the plain truth. Good for you Kanye, for bringing up an important issue in a time when people might not be so apt to think about the people actually involved in this crisis. After 9/11 it was said we shouldn't offer criticism either, that we should just go along with whatever our present and did and pass the PATRIOT act or vote for a war we didn't need to go into. As for the people who defend Bush... god damn, can you drop your blnd party line towing for just once and admit your guy did a major mess up? The state and local authorities were supposed to handle it? Yea, the fire department can totally handle an entire major city SINKING INTO THE OCEAN. One of the most important ports in our country that carries a great deal of the grain and corn and other supplies this country exports and that leads to an area (the Gulf of Mexico) that contains one third of our nation's oil supply I THINK QUALIFIES AS A FEDERAL PROBLEM!! Maybe we couldn't have predicted it (which I highly dispute. Radar is a powerful thing). Maybe it was too much of a surprise to act in time. But still, there is a lot that could've been done that wasn't. And if the president wants to help the people he supposedly cares about he should his ass off his ranch and out of New Orleans holding press conferences and back to Washington. Also, you know, one thing he does have power over is fucking not accepting foreign aid from other countries. That is just an arrogant move that says we don't really give a damn about fixing this. He also could've done something about it by reinforcing the levees (that've been there since the city was built), by not destroying wetlands and taking away a natural sheild from the wind and rains, and not allowing developers bulldoze over the land. Or, you know, he could've not lied us into a war and sent thousands of troops (including plenty of Guardsmen) to die when they should've been helping fight a crisis like this. But whatever. The simple truth his the president and his administration and everyone involved handled this the wrong way. Now the people who least deserve it are paying dearly. Isn't that always the way?
And to the people who say it's the people who live there's own fault for not leaving sooner or for just being there in the first place, wow, fuck you right to hell. Talk about not thinking about the victims.
Rant end. Hope I didn't go off the page...
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I believe nearly 22,000 national guard members responded to hurricane Andrew.
We are still waiting for the 7,000 troops Bush promised to arrive in New Orleans.
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The reason we should not say "right on" to K.W. is this:
A mainstream network, invited a mainstream audience to watch a divergent group of artists, spanning the spectrum of ideological thought and political leanings, to come together for a few hours to help aid VICTIMS of a horrible disaster. The night was supposed to be about them and for them.
By turning the focus on himself, and making the evening a forum for HIS personal beliefs and HIS personal political ideologies, K.W. violated the spirit of the evening, and turned off a large portion of the viewing audience who were sitting there with checkbooks in their laps WAITING to sign away money to aid the dying and the destitute. He took food, water and medicine out of the mouths of victims. It was an unforgivably selfish act. He is a public person with many opportunities to inform the media of his political beliefs. He should NOT have spit on hurricane victims in order to get his anti-Bush "hard-on."
I detest George Bush. But I know something of propriety and decorum. K.W. is a stupid, selfish punk.
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I lived in New Orleans, and I remember the state authorities and officials being sub-par.
Sure is nice to have a scapegoat, though.
Honestly, though, I'm trying to keep positive about all this, but it almost feels like there's someone bleeding in the middle of the street, with two people helping that person, while everyone argues about why he's been wounded and what was wrong with the crime. I mean, discuss if you want, no one's going to close the internet, but its just grating on me. I donated, and I plan to get some supplies to the drive, and then I am done.
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shame on our government, for ignoring the poor black people, poor white people, all other poor races, of that region,and showing america what it is really made of, while people die daily, the elderly and the children suffer. key word here is poor.
every body hurts.
everyone in that region will suffer one way or antother, and we as a nation, used to being coddled, are now facing uncomfortably high gas prices, as a result of previous poor planning in new orleans. may god richly and completely,reward each and every one involved in
recovery efforts, (those who helped, and those who didn't) simple reciprocity.
mother theresa remembered these words and so saw past the outside of a person, to their soul and honored and loved people she knew were in obvious trouble.
"what so ever you've done to the least of these, you've done to me"
jesus.
every body hurts.
i mention this because bush talks so freely about how he is this "born again christian"
what happened with that? huh bush? showing a little christian compassion? a
little christian love? a
little christian hypocracy? do you bring that up
only when it benefits you to say you are a christian?
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Rob: No, let me break it down for you. You are an asshat who seems to think you are an expert on the ideology of a huge region of this country. I doubt that are an expert in anything. My family is from the south and has been for generations. I have lived all over the country so have had the chance to view racism in its many forms. What exactly do you base your theories on? And, if you are referring to David Duke, as abhorrent as he may have been, he did not run on a racist platform nor was he a current member of the KKK when he ran for office. That's not to say he didn't still have ties but to say he openly espoused those views is just your idiotic of trying to make an overly simplistic and stereotyped point.
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Rob: No, let me break it down for you. You are an asshat who seems to think you are an expert on the ideology of a huge region of this country. I doubt that are an expert in anything. My family is from the south and has been for generations. I have also lived all over the country so have had the chance to view racism in its many forms. What exactly do you base your theories on? And, if you are referring to David Duke, as abhorrent as he may have been, he did not run on a racist platform nor was he a current member of the KKK when he ran for office. That's not to say he didn't still have ties but to say he openly espoused those views is just your overly simplistic way of trying to make a stereotypical generalization into a given.
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I CARE, KANYE MERCHANDISE
100% PROFITS GO TO RED CROSS
http://www.cafepress.com/ICAREKANYE
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Did Kayne West know that more than any other president in U.S. History, GW Bush has helped organize more financial relief, medical care (providing 250,000 Africans with Antiviral care) and humanitarian aid for Africa? Even if Congress has yet to approve the $15 Billion dollar package he set out for in 2002, it's definitely a step in the right direction. Say what you want about W's other foreign policies, but to say he "doesn't care about black people" is really lame. Not being prepared for a hurricane crisis is one thing....
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1. what is with people blaming the victims? Have you lost your damn minds? So what if they lived in a city that was below sea level, and had a warning? Many of those people built their lives in the New Orleans area. They're supposed to just leave their familial history and culture to go live elsewhere? What about the West Coast and its being built on a faultline? What about Florida and the South-East coast being more prone to hurricanes? Anyone who blames the victims for living there, or says that they had enough warning to get out of their own volition ought to give their head a shake in this life, 'cause I guarantee you there's a special place in hell for you in the next one.
2. The local and state governments are useless. There is no doubt about it. And they will get theirs. But what is with people deflecting attention away from the Bush administration? As for scapegoating Bush, please tell me how he's a scapegoat. When people say 'Bush' they mean his administration, and to a lesser extent him personally. All you freepers need to give us a break with the idea that we're attacking him, and only him, personally. He's not a scapegoat - he's the ultimate figure of accountability. Why can't people see that? When you work at McDonald's, the fry-guy is responsible for the fries. It's his job to make sure they are golden and tasty. But the manager still has to crack down on him, even if she goes nowhere near the deep-fryer all day. You know why? Because if I roll in, and my fries are soggy and cold, she's the one who's gonna catch hell. Get it? It may not have been her fault directly, but she's the one who will be held accountable at the end of the day. Bush and his buddies should have been on the state and local governments to get ready, and if they weren't ready they should have intervened, because they must have realized that FEMA and federal aid were going to be called on in the lack of local preparedness. Bush and his idiot friends love to take praise, why can't they take blame too? He wants to parade around like a cowboy on the international stage, but doesn't want to be anywhere near politics when trouble hits. You Bush apologists, and even those of you who merely refuse to hold him accountable for his lack of actions, need to really think about what you want out of a president.
3. As for the logistics of organizing this? Of course it was going to be difficult. It was tough and it was bound to hurt and kill people. Again, the state and local authorities really failed the people. But don't tell me Bush couldn't do anything, or that his hands were tied. I bet if Katrina somehow enabled two dudes to make out more easily and in a romantic atmosphere, he would have been down there sandbagging the place himself. Anyone remember the emergency midnight meeting of Congress after the umpteenth STATE judge allowed Terry Schaivo the right to remove her feeding tube? Hm... seems the feds can move pretty quick against state actions when they feel the state isn't adequately representing the people's interest.
4. Why are people so reluctant to believe that the Bush administration doesn't care about poor people (and by extension black people)? Look at his goddamned agenda: cuts to social welfare programs, cuts to health care, cuts to environmental programs (many of which you're seeing in direct relation to the tragedy in New Orleans). All of his spending cuts have hampered the health and well-being of all Americans, but in particular poor ones. Why is it so hard to realize that this is merely an extension of that? It's the logical conclusion of having a president who is actively for big business, and actively against substantive equality and aid (in any context, race, class, gender), that he would be negligent to those in need. He's been negligent his entire time in office, and in some cases actively malicious.
5. Can someone please tell me how this is a publicity stunt on Kanye's part? The dude is on the cover of Time, has what is sure to be a #1 album, is getting rave reviews all over the place. If anything, this is going to alienate people. He spoke his mind, and good on him for doing it. Hopefully he didn't interfere with generating funds, but I hope that what he caused the Red Cross to lose through ignorant people who would be turned off to desperate need because of what a celebrity said, he generated through people who became more attuned to this tragedy because of its class and race implications.
Kanye is an idiot, arrogant rapper. But he's got people talking about the tacit politics under a national tragedy. And in a world where we know Paris Hilton's summer vacation schedule, I think that's a good thing. Any discussion about the state of this country is a good thing, particularly at a time like this.
6. To the victims - our hearts are with you. You may not be able to discern it from a board like this, but we are doing what we can to get you aid. Please don't let our political arguments discourage you or let you think that we're not doing what we can to help you. Because we all are. These discussions are nothing more than trying to make sense of what a tragedy this is - a privilege we have at the moment, and which we're trying our best to restore to you. Again, please go to www.redcross.org and give what you can.
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It's not just the black and the poor Bush doesn't care for. It's also whites, Asians, Middle Eastern folks and basically anyone who he isn't in business with and isn't a "good buddy" of his. Those soldiers he sent to Iraq weren't just black folks and minorities. He doesn't give two damns about them.
Don't focus on such a narrow statement and defend it. Look at it as it really is. Bush doesn't give a damn about the people in this country and he never has.
Everytime I hear him speak about some tragedy I get sick to my stomach. The man is so cold and emotionless and when he's shaking hands with the "common man" you can tell he doesn't want to be there. He doesn't had the tiniest bit of human warmth or compassion.
Doesn't it suck we still have three years left with this idiot?
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I knew this blog would eventually get pretty heated responses along the way, but there are a few things I'd like to say. As a Louisiana resident my entire life, we've had teachers and parents tell us for years about the condition of the levees, the inevitable hurricane that would destroy New Orleans with water if they weren't properly taken care of, coastal erosion, etc.
Amidst the sadness, anger and chaos arose. People lost loved ones, homes, pets, etc. Many didn't evacuate because they honestly thought they'd live through it since relatives lived through a very devastating hurricane years ago. And many didn't evacuate because they didn't have the financial means to get out of there, pure and simple. Here you are, with hundreds of thousands with nowhere to go and criminals within the mix, and thousands more presumed dead. Where is the government aid? Where are the National Guardsmen and women? And where was all of the money for coastal and levee improvements?
On a larger scale, our local and national governments screwed up years ago. It's not so much the current mayor of New Orleans and governor of our state, it's the past politicians who had their priorities in the wrong places. And Bush is to blame for cutting funding over the past three years or so to improve our coast and levees. Those levees could have been improved in that if a hurricane this devastating were to come, at least the water levels for the most part would have been under some kind of control, if not fully. And where were our National Guard troops to help with the effort and ease the situation? They're over in Iraq looking for "Weapons of Mass Destruction".
Kanye was obviously speaking from the heart and reacted on that. Agree with him or not, it needed to be said just to open people's eyes or at least got them talking about it. Things have been swept under the rug for too long. Anytime you see your own brother, a police officer, break down because they're in desperate need of help in New Orleans and he's doing all he can out there, it says something. And this was someone who was once a in the National Guard and an avid Bush supporter. After all he and everyone else is going through in New Orleans, he is furious that reinforcements, help, supplies, etc. has taken so long to get there.
Politics and argument aside, this was a very tragic situation. I never thought I'd live through something like this. Many of us are angry and upset about it, as was Kanye. Like what he said or not, all I ask is for you to do what you can to help people in the affected states. Thank you.
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It`s to bad kanye west had to ruined everyhing. I am tired of black people always blaming whites for the problem in the world.If it was a white men blaming blacks he would be called a racist. Mr.west I believed the majority of the looting and stealing sneakers,weapons,beer,plasma screens and rapping are black hoodlums
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I totally agree. SIX DAYS of LIP SERVICE AND INACTION.
Meanwhile, when Bush's brother comes a calling after a hurricane. $$$,$$$,$$$ just comes pouring of George's ASSHOLE. What F is up with that?
People sit sanitized while babies DIE. In the next couple of weeks when all the real horror stories surface, then we'll see the true cost of Bush's NEGLIGENCE and CHRISTIAN values.
George, just go back on vacation since that's ALL YOU'RE GOOD AT.
By the way, he WAS ON VACATION when this happened. Obviously, his golf game was more important then his citizens.
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please read
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/03/opinion/03dowd.html?ex=1126497600&en=9627b8e6e61d7407&ei=5070&emc=eta1
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"K.W. violated the spirit of the evening, and turned off a large portion of the viewing audience who were sitting there with checkbooks in their laps WAITING to sign away money to aid the dying and the destitute. He took food, water and medicine out of the mouths of victims. It was an unforgivably selfish act."
If people were waiting with baited breath for Mike Myers or Chris Tucker or Kanye West or Harry Connick Jr. to push them over the edge to donate to the Red Cross...
Well I don't think anyone had their checks ready all filled out teetering on the edge ABOUT to sign their name, reached for a drink of Snapple, heard Kanye, spit the Snapple out, ripped up the check.
If they did?
This country is a lot worse off than we think.
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I have the whole thing recorded on DVD
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Kanye West if a stupid fucking punk ass nigga, and yeh, Im black.
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"By the way, he WAS ON VACATION when this all happened."
right, shame on Bush for not having psychic powers and canceling his vacation because he knew a hurricane was going to hit. Btw, where was Kanye "i care about my people" West the night that all this happened? Oh yeah, dancing around on stage at the vma's talking about how all black women are gold diggers.
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I'll say it again....Kanye West is a publicity whore. Always has been, always will be. Is it just a coincidence that all this blew up a day or two before the release of his new album? NO.
Kanye did this with one intent: to draw attention to him....and it worked. This has been blasted all over the news networks, internet blogs (like this one), yahoo's front page, etc. And this is exactly what he wanted. Any press is good press, right Kanye?
I have news for all of you. KANYE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE BLACK PEOPLE in New Orleans either. He cares about record sales. A month from now, Kanye will be sleeping comfortably on his 1000 thread count sheets, while the people in the devistated South will still be without nothing. Where will he be then? Hanging his platinum record up on the wall of his mansion...that's where.
Take the $13.00 you were going to spend on Kanye's album and donate it to the American Red Cross. If he cares so much about "his people", this is what he would want anyways, right?
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Dear Sharon,
Read, think, then post. I supported your views and clarified my original statement becuase of the point you raised. In simple english, I agree with you. Whether or not you agree with the point I made is not of my concern. I made a generalization about a problem and you called me on it. In fact, you were even a bit insulting, fair enough. The fact that you stooped to name-calling makes me sad, one day we may be face to face and trying to work together to make a better country. My apologies if I offended you. The reactionary in me feels the urge to defend myself but there is no point. Re-read these comments in a few days and I think you'll see we're on a similar page. There is a problem and we'd both be eager to fix it.
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Despite what kind of person Kanye might be (ego wise), I think what he said was heart felt. Many people have been shocked/appalled/moved by this, why assume he is any different? I have to agree with those above who said Kanye may have harmed his record sales rather then helped them.
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Bush has been on vacation for over 20% of his presidency. I don't know anyone that gets just over two months of holiday a year from their job, unless they either work for themsevles, or don't take their job too seriously. You'd think that with knowing the hurricane was coming he'd maybe go put some time into the office to at least look like he was working.
And yes, I think Kanye would prefer it you spent your money on the Red Cross rather than on him. The guy called himself a hypocrite on national TV. I don't know him so who knows what his intentions are, but he did seem genuinely moved to want change down there, even if his earlier actions might not have shown it. Oh, and I guess because he's rich he can't speak out on what he perceives to be an injustice. Right? Because he is wealthy, and will continue to be wealthy after Katrina has come and gone, that somehow invalidates his opinion? Guess what, Bush, and Cheney, and Rice will all return to their fancy pads, go back to vacation (or, rather, continue them), and spend your tax money like it's going out of style Except when they go back to their lives, they're not going to be just be making records and entertaining people. THey're going to continue the implemenation of policies that further alienate and divide the American public, not to mention undercut the potential for social progress among diverse and marginalized groups, and continue a war that is financially and spiritually devastating to the country. I guess because Kanye is a rapper, and not a politician, there's no chance he can be sensitive to the needs of people, nor can he speak his mind whether or not you agree with it. The politicans have that market cornered, eh?
When the Dixie Chicks spoke out on Bush in a non-televised concert in London, UK, that info made it back to the US, and they were banned from playlists and saw their record sales dropped. Weren't they even banned by clearchannel? If you think this isn't going to have negative repercussions for his 'career' you're dead wrong. You can already sense the neocons are getting ready to call for his head in the media. Disagree with him all you want, but to suggest that this was a press opportunity is foolish. Then again, you probably think Bush cares about everyone equally in the first place.
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Yes as Kanye and everyone eles now know there are no white people in the ghettos.
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Wow. I don't have much to add to all this except I think its amazing that so many people are saying cogent, interesting, well-informed things (with the occasional ignorant rant thrown in). This disaster was terribly fumbled, and while we should be concentrating on fixing the problem right now, many of these issues should remain as things to be worked on. I hope that this tragedy causes positive political change in a way that 9/11 simply didn't.
For an example of how fucking awful this has been, this is a quote from an AP article:
In addition to civilian deaths, New Orleans emergency service agencies
have had to deal with some suicides among their ranks, Mayor Ray Nagin said.
"I've got some firefighters and police officers that have been pretty much
traumatized," he said. "And we've already had a couple of suicides so I am
cycling them out as we speak, but we have a problem. I can get them to Baton
Rouge, but once I get them to Baton Rouge there's no hospitals. They need
physical and psychological evaluations."
If that doesn't indicate some gross incompetence on the part of the city, state and federal leaders, I don't know what does.
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Stereogum is a fucking joke and this blog is a fucking joke. Why don't you rich NYC punks focus on Indie musie and forget about the politics. You are a disgrace to this nation and a disgrace to Indie music. Stereogum is a loser, creating hype by slamming Britney Spears and creating a disgrace to the whole music scene.
Bunch of fucking punk losers on this blog...
Ban Stereogum and do justice to the indie music world. And quit having Daddy support you, you fucking punks..........
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oh by the way did I say Fuck You.... Stereogum sucks big time. Go back to fucking college punk.
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michael moore reads da gum?!
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WRONG:
"George W Bush doesn't care about black people."
RIGHT:
"George W Bush doesn't care about people."
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Kanye West definitely made a fan of me.
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I just wanted to clarify, when I made the "scapegoat" comment, I meant blaming the federal government and all that. The feds were slow to respond, but in all honesty they are set up to handle federal matters, and there was no way they could have predicted this, just as much as Louisiana could not have predicted how harsh this was.
It's a bit like blaming the McDonalds corporate CEO for overcooking your burger at the local chain.
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When can you speak your mind, or the truth without consequences, in this country without it getting in the way of someones pocket book? Everything is backed by the dollar, even the news. There is no freedom of speech cause no one will hear you unless you have a bullhorn paid for by valtrex and huggies. Sure there is the net, but really you are preaching to the converted on the net and the people who hear you are just a handful.
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re: nycjerkoffs
I neither live in New York, get supported by my parents, or believe that thinking about politics is "a disgrace to this nation or a disgrace to indie music." I'm not sure how politics can be a disgrace to indie music. I'm also not sure how you can "create hype" by "slamming Britney Spears."
Oh, and it is so BORING when people insult other people for no real reason. I suppose that some people haven't matured to the point where they realize this.
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MrQuick,
I get your point about division of powers and all that. But do you really think Bush's relationship to an impending category 5 hurricane that he knew was coming is analagous to the relationship between the CEO of McDonald's and a heat lamp in Pasadena? I really hope you're wrong. 'Cause if you're right, we're fucked.
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The only controversy here is that it only a rap artist will say what so many citizens, lawmakers, and public figures already think.
Respect.
http://blog.verbosecoma.com/archives/001451.php
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Adam writes:
"If people were waiting with baited breath for Mike Myers or Chris Tucker or Kanye West or Harry Connick Jr. to push them over the edge to donate to the Red Cross...
Well I don't think anyone had their checks ready all filled out teetering on the edge ABOUT to sign their name, reached for a drink of Snapple, heard Kanye, spit the Snapple out, ripped up the check.
If they did?
This country is a lot worse off than we think."
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Adam, you believe Kanye's right to turn a charity fundraiser for disaster victims into a forum for anti-Bush invectives is more important than the cause that EVERY other person at the event came together to support. HURRICANE RELIEF!!!!
I don't care if you do not like the people who turned off their TV sets at that moment. They are not important to me, and you are definitely not important to me. What should be remembered and prioritzed are the victims of this tragedy. Kanye West did not do that. He put his own personal feelings above the victims and thereby hurt the cause that many people gave their time and efforts to support.
Kanye is NOT muzzled. He has many opportunities to get his political views aired. He made a horrible decision to air them in the middle of a mainstream charity fundraiser.
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One more point, Adam. Your attempts at humor to try and make your point, (When the focus of the evening which Kanye TRASHED was the hurricane victims, DEAD and DYING, starving, homeless, sick, scared, in-shock and every other destitute condition you can think of) are REPUGNANT. You think this whole thing is a big joke, and this board is your opportunity to show everyone what a big, hard brain you have. As you say, this country is in bad shape, in large part to selfish, uncaring compassionless morons like yourself.
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The editing out of kanye's outburst is even more evidence that the media does have the final say... or at least they think they do. The media is to blame for a lot of the missconstrued believes that many of us hold. Props to kanye... and prayers to the victims... fnck the "media" kill your tv
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patrick gorse,
i think everyone's just frustrated by the whole thing. this whole thing is a mess no matter which way you look at it.
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My thoughts are that the president of the united states should have done more to prepare his people, the people of this great nation, for what was going to happen. He had ultimate control here... he could have ordered money and relief before that thing hit... in fact he should have. the media had been warning of a large storm... hence the evacuations.. they knew it was going to be big. They had time to prepare for this... bush failed... our president failed to act "for the people". he let all of us down, and let many die, just as with iraq. Our president is ill-equiped to do his job. his illfated attempts to calm the masses by flying over only mock those who now have nothing... shame on you Mr. President... shame on you... you let your people down. you let all of us down. prayers to the victims and those affected by this and all of Bush's un-actions.
"Worst President ever..." ~comic book guy (simpsons)
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"The editing out of kanye's outburst is even more evidence that the media does have the final say... or at least they think they do. The media is to blame for a lot of the missconstrued believes that many of us hold. Props to kanye... and prayers to the victims... fnck the "media" kill your tv"
This is typical mindless babble. It is akin to shooting into a crowd of people because two or three are guilty of something.
There are many good things on television. Yes, there is plenty of bad as well. Responsible, well-informed people use there brains to pick out and choose the good from the bad. Idiots advocate "killing your TV."
This is the kind of intolerance that the left supposedly detests. I know, I am on the left, and I despise intolerance.
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And by the way, the reason NBC removed K.W.'s hate-speech for it's West Coast broadcast, was they were more concerned with helping hurricane victims than promoting K.W. They were just fine with taking checks from folks who agree with Bush, and airing K.W.'s comments would have turned those sets off. Also, I believe many on the West Coast DID see the event live on MSNBC and CNBC.
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WHAT THE FUCK DON'T U PEOPLE GET? Bush can't make people who don't want to leave, leave. Then u fuckers would bash him for that. I am sooo sick of hearing how white people hate black people. It is really Black people who HATE white people. If it weren't the truth then blacks wouldn't ALWAYS make it a racial issue. Get off your high fucking horse, and stop thinking everyone owes you something. I am African American and I am appauled by the way we are handling ourselves. Stop dwelling on racial shit and deal with the problem that needs to be dealt with.
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patrick gorse,
where was adam making funnies? i didn't see that. i'm not trying to be a smart-ass, i just didn't see it... unless you meant that snapple comment.
further, i still don't get how kanye diverted attention away from the hurricane victims. wasn't he talking precisely about hurricane victims in his divergence from the teleprompter? my understanding is that he's a guy who's shocked at what he's seen and feels the need to respond. he said what he felt was an urgent message - that hurricane relief right now is falling short. i assume in his mind it was a message that needed to be said right now to stir people to action now, not tomorrow or a week from now through a critical hindsight approach. you can disagree with the message, but how can you say he diverted attention away from the victims? again, not trying to be a smart-ass, i just don't follow. what if he had diverted from the script and said "oh, the government's doing a great job... everything is going to be fine"? probably in his mind sticking to the teleprompter was akin to that - a tacit approval.
i think that if you believe that kanye was being sincere, you'll believe that precisely what he was doing was drawing attention to the victims. if you believe he was being disingenuous, well then doing anything other than reading the script would have distracted from the tragedy. in the end it seems to me that the "script" - in the broadest sense of that word - of this disaster ain't doing the job. good on him for diverting from it and taking some kind of action.
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Jennifer!! Where do you want people with no cars and no money to go? Do you want them to walk away and get flooded in the open? They stayed with their houses or went to public shelters , because those were their ONLY options.
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where was adam making funnies? i didn't see that. i'm not trying to be a smart-ass, i just didn't see it... unless you meant that snapple comment.
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What does the above mean? You make a point, and close by disagreeing with yourself.
K.W. could have made his comments on Air America, in the Letters to the Editor of USA TODAY or the New York Times. He D I D divert attention from hurricane relief!!!!!!! He thought it was more important to raise his public persona than raise money for the destitute. He took food, medicine and water out of the mouths of the suffering. Reliving the suffering was why everyone came together that night, everyone except K.W. Thousands turned off their sets when he turned a charity fundraiser into his own personal agenda.
I am in no way trying to muzzle K.W. He is a public person with plenty of opportunities to get his opinions aired in front of a mass audience. He showed he has no class and no sense of propriety.
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What does the above mean? You make a point, and close by disagreeing with yourself.
K.W. could have made his comments on Air America, in the Letters to the Editor of USA TODAY or the New York Times. He DID divert attention from hurricane relief!!!!!!! He thought it was more important to raise his public persona than raise money for the destitute. He took food, medicine and water out of the mouths of the suffering. Relieving the suffering was why everyone came together that night, everyone except K.W. Thousands turned off their sets when he turned a charity fundraiser into his own personal agenda.
I am in no way trying to muzzle K.W. He is a public person with plenty of opportunities to get his opinions aired in front of a mass audience. He showed he has no class and no sense of propriety
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Patrick, we get the point you have so eloquently stated about 15 times... I understand you believe yourself to be the "good guy" here to chastise everyone who expresses their opinions on free speech but, as someone previously stated, are people really stupid enough to just say "Oh, that rapper is a no-talent liberal asshole...In turn, I'm going to withhold my donation check because I disagree with his opinions"? I'd like to give America the benefit of the doubt...
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patrick gorse,
oh. i didn't think adam's snapple remark was as vicious or as "repugnant" as you claimed it to be, nor did it strike me as an attempt at humour. it just seemed like he was painting a picture of the average viewer in the comfort of her own home. the only reason i noted it in my question was because it was the only thing that seemed a bit odd in his message (most of which i agree with by the way). i assumed by your response that adam had made some really horrific remark.
i get that you're frustrated. we all are. but i don't think placing decorum over conviction is really the right approach. we'll never know if kanye lost the red cross money that night. people like adam and i doubt it. and you seem certain that he did what he did for publicity rather than out of compassion. i disagree, but we'll never know the truth of that either. let's just agree to disagree, and remember, like you say, that the victims right now need to come first.
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Stopped in to see if this insanity was still going on. You people really need to get a friggin life. Why don't you all shut your traps and do something to help the situation?
And Patrick, just shut the fuck up Ok?
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Donate to Red Cross, write to your local Congress representative, write to Bush if you want, offer yourself and your house/money to help these people, pray, pray again, donate your time to this relief or some other charity but for God sakes don't start a war with people on this God forsaken (shame on bonehead Stereogum) idiot blog. You people are an embarrasment for this country and you are defiling the poor people who have died in New Orleans. Get a Fucking life and do something usefull.
And shame on Stereogum for letting this travesty go on for so long and for his shameless hype of a horrible situation. Yeah, he thinks it makes him so popular and powerful..... What a loser he really is....
God you people are beyond pathetic....
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Edwin writes:
Patrick, we get the point you have so eloquently stated about 15 times... I understand you believe yourself to be the "good guy" here to chastise everyone who expresses their opinions on free speech but, as someone previously stated, are people really stupid enough to just say "Oh, that rapper is a no-talent liberal asshole...In turn, I'm going to withhold my donation check because I disagree with his opinions"? I'd like to give America the benefit of the doubt...
___________________________________________
Edwin, I invite you into the living room of middle America. Someone who NEVER watches rap artists is doing so, because he is concerned about hurricane victims and wants to get involved with the recovery process. All the artists performing and appearing on the program have come together in the spirit of cooperation and sacrifice and are trying to encourage the country to join them in that effort.
On comes, K.W. with his speech. Whether you think the person (Many Bush supporters watching as well) is stupid if he turns off his set at that moment is irrelevant. Maybe they were just angry. But trust me, it happenned, sets went dark, and victims were shortchanged. At the moment K.W. opened his mouth, the focus left the victims and went instead to him. It was a charity fundraiser, and THAT SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENNED!!!
What K.W. did only served to make the discourse in America more harsh. Now a charity fundraiser is not safe from promotional grandstanding for one's personal agenda that is antithetical to the purpose EVERYONE else there is committted.
Free speech does not mean you should say anything anywhere. It means you can. But when you abuse that right, as K.W. did, you deserve to be subjected to righteous criticism.
Oh, BTW, Edwin, give me one more example where you give America the benefit of the doubt.
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getalife writes:
"Stopped in to see if this insanity was still going on. You people really need to get a friggin life. Why don't you all shut your traps and do something to help the situation?
And Patrick, just shut the fuck up Ok?"
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I donated a week's worth of pay. That is not easy for me. And BTW, nice to see that "free speech" "just shut the fuck up Ok?" is alive and well in America.
Obviously, selfishly saying whatever you want whenever you want is more important to the majority of people on this board than helping the victims of a terrible tragedy. Pity.
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Hey getalife, you should have a blog about being a holier-than-thou asshole. I'd read it every day, and then have arguments on your comment board about which god I should pray to and which Senator would read my letter. I wish we were all as righteous as you are.
Pardon my being a prick, but do you really think no one here cares about this situation but you? Everyone is doing what they can, and I think (aside from donating) that discussing the situation is good for people, no matter if it is a pop culture blog or whatever. Let people talk.
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10-to-1 says getalife hasn't donated money or time. 10-to-1 says he hasn't done shit. His guilty conscience dictates that he should come in here and berate a bunch of internerds having a conversation about a current event to make himself feel better for his inaction.
Since he's so involved he should provide a receipt or proof of how he's positively contributed to the disaster, and allow Stereogum to post said proof along with his contact information. Then we can all write to him and thank him for showing us the light, since, you know, it hasn't been encouraged a million times in the comments for people to donate to the Red Cross either time or money you fucking chump.
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Edwin and Patrick why don't you both go in a corner and blow each other?
I have spent the last week trying to locate two family members who are lost in the aftermath of New Orleans. I came upon this blog to see if there was any relevant information related to disaster survivors. But after viewing the blog, I see it is just a bunch of stupid American citizens ranting about what they think is right. Shame on you all and I hope that you stop and think about what you are doing. You have no clue, none what so ever. People are still dying and you are sitting here talking about what Kayne West said. Fuck you all.....
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A celebrity who is an influence to entire generation of young people, had a chance to inspire those young people to do something good... and he used his moment to preach hate....
...he did nothing to help those poor black people down there in New Orleans, and it further divided the next generation of whites & blacks making racism take a back seat to human kind....
it's outbursts like that that keep racism alive, if you're for supporting someone who has kept that alive... I guess all I can say is thats sad... :|
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" Where do you want people with no cars and no money to go? Do you want them to walk away and get flooded in the open? They stayed with their houses or went to public shelters , because those were their ONLY options."
no, i wanted them to get in buses that the mayor should have provided.
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I respected Kanye till I saw that. I thought he was one of the classiest people to arrive in the music biz in a long time, but then he opened his mouth to spill some uneducated rant.
How can people say that Bush doesn't care about black people? Sorry, but I'm just not seeing any evidence of it. So you people hate the Republican party, so the Democrats "favor" minorities... I still don't see any support for the comments made here.
I live where the eye of Ivan hit last year, and my hometown was totally devastated, but the government did a great job helping us. That is the main thing at fault right now in this situation. It's not the Republicans. The government and government agencies are made up of more than just conservatives, just in case you all forgot that.
Help should have been sent in much earlier, and the fact that it wasn't pisses me off to no end. If they had deployed troops to just the outskirts immediately, this wouldn't have turned out to be quite the huge disaster that it has become.
I'm back in my hometown right now because my college was shut down temporarily because yet again, I was right where the eye hit. Because of the lack of the order and control in the affected areas, I'm scared to go back to school. Things have gotten out of control. A man shot a woman in the head over a bag of fucking ice. That could have been prevented had the government sent in reinforcements sooner.
GOVERNMENT. Do not blame the Republican party solely for what happened. It was the government as a whole's fault.
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who's patrick gorse????
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Has Kayne donated 1$ off of every CD of Late Registration? No. I wonder how much dude gave? Nothing prob. he went back to his little house that night after the stunt for his album sales, wore his pink polo shirt and sipped crystal while he admired the blood diamonds his "brothers" in africa were killed for.
The government is still jacked up but kayne is riding the train.
Hypocrities are the worst. Talk is cheap.
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Patrick's comment:
" Where do you want people with no cars and no money to go? Do you want them to walk away and get flooded in the open? They stayed with their houses or went to public shelters , because those were their ONLY options."
b writes, in response :
no, i wanted them to get in buses that the mayor should have provided.
___________________________
Great!!!! You wanted them to get on imaginary busses.
Unfortunately, busses that were NOT there was not an option!!!!
Insanity!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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getalife writes:
Edwin and Patrick why don't you both go in a corner and blow each other?
I have spent the last week trying to locate two family members who are lost in the aftermath of New Orleans. I came upon this blog to see if there was any relevant information related to disaster survivors. But after viewing the blog, I see it is just a bunch of stupid American citizens ranting about what they think is right. Shame on you all and I hope that you stop and think about what you are doing. You have no clue, none what so ever. People are still dying and you are sitting here talking about what Kayne West said. Fuck you all.....
_____________________________________
getalife, those folks in New Orleans (If they exist) I hope they are allright. Also, I hope you never get in touch with them. If they are real people, they now have enough problems wiithout having to deal with the likes of you.
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Who's Patrick Gorse?
Looks like he is some Atheist fruitcake form So Cal.......
http://atheistparents.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5449&sid=bdef44b7ba6675c89e8582166cf80240
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I disagree with an nes article that claims God is Pasadena's personal protector by preventing rain on their parade just days after the tsunami, and that makes me an atheist homosexual? And by the way, I'm not, but what if I was? Are you a bigot? wildone, you are a true ass.
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I disagree with an news article that claims God is Pasadena's personal protector by preventing rain on their parade just days after the tsunami, and that makes me an atheist homosexual? And by the way, I'm not, but what if I was? Are you a bigot? wildone, you are a true ass.
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nope. can't imagine there were any buses anywhere in new orleans. especially not here:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc21109012015
and i'm not sure what the mayor could have done with those buses. or the governor. maybe the same thing they do in other states when hurricanes come? use them to evacuate? maybe? it was the mayor's job, after all.
and to be clear, i'm not blaming the people. god knows what i would have done faced with something like that. but too bad the mayor didn't try. now we'll never know.
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Does the mayor have the authority to order people who have been asked to evacuate to drive the busses?
Remember, busses don't drive themselves.
And really b, you are criticizing me for a comment I made in response to this, written by jennifer:
WHAT THE FUCK DON'T U PEOPLE GET? Bush can't make people who don't want to leave, leave. Then u fuckers would bash him for that.
_____________________________________
in which I responded to her:
Jennifer!! Where do you want people with no cars and no money to go? Do you want them to walk away and get flooded in the open? They stayed with their houses or went to public shelters, because those were their ONLY options.
At this point you made the inane comment in criticism of me:
no, i wanted them to get in buses that the mayor should have provided.
b, are you also Jennifer? If so, why the deception? The answer is probably that you are trying to back off earlier statements you made without offering a retraction. Gutless.
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I've got links on fd5000.com to the video as well.
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This is what happens when you have a state
government who doesn't care. When you have a governor and mayor who don't care about the poor
black populus. Futhermore, this is what you get
when political policies encourgage repression of a people group (being those under the poverty line, a majority of which are black) by economically sedating them, e.g. welfare. How many times did you see people screaming about not having any food given to them?
After hurricanes ivan and dennis, both of which i was directly in the paths of, we recieved immediate help, six to eight hours later. This in part to a state government absolutely prepared for events such as these. Without pointing fingers at the federal government, maybe we should look at the immediate group of people who set this formerly pending disaster in motion long ago.
Also, this is what you get for having a city under sea-level. Cheers to the American Venice!!
Bravissimo!!!
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FEMA, which was a stand-alone agency that responded well to emergencies was re-organized after 9/11 and put under the control of the Dept. of Homeland Security. They dumped the top people who were experts in responding to natural disasters in favor of neo-cons with a "post 9/11" mentality, who are in favor of keeping the agency primed for terrorist attacks, not natural disasters. Bush has destroyed FEMA. Hence the disaterous results in the Gulf Coast.
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Here is the simplified non-fiction version for you direct from my big hard brain:
What I was saying was the comment about people sitting with their checkbooks out waiting to donate was ridiculous. If people are going to donate they are going to donate, if they aren't they aren't. I honestly do not believe anyone who planned a Red Cross donation would not donate after Kanye's one minute speech. (Most of which was about the media not Bush.) If people in this country are so partisan that this is true, that is what is repugnant.
Unless you meant the Snapple, many of which's flavours are, in fact, REPUGNANT.
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I just want to say "HA!" to the unnamed bloggers who said Stereogum was an escape from reality and the news! There is no escape brotha!!! Learn to deal. I love you Stereogum.
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My Friend Mocean Worker wrote this song using clips from the nagin interview:
(from moceanworker.com)
I wrote this track after I heard the RAY NAGIN interview..........folks down in NEW ORLEANS needed the respect of our current administration, and they didnt get it! Please give what you can to help with the relief effort and feel free to share this track with anyone. - MOWO!
http://www.moceanworker.com/mowo/nolaaintrighttonight.mp3
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"I just want to say "HA!" to the unnamed bloggers who said Stereogum was an escape from reality and the news!"
Guilty as charged, but I never said he shouldn't post about these things, just that it was nice to come here for a break. I'm glad for this post, though. Debate is good.
Thanks Scott.
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Wow, blaming Bush after the hurricane.
How provocative!
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Kathleen Blanco and the corrupt mayor of New Orleans don't care about black people.
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What did I learn from the above debate? Primarily that Stereogum readers are not a uniformly "cool" or "hip" bunch. There are a lot of assholes who follow this site. You know who you are.
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Someone needs to mention this, since it has been metioned several times on this board that the New Orleans mayor is white. (not you Sam) He is not.
I think Mayor Nagin would be very surprised to hear that he doesn't care about black people.
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If anyone cared to watch Bill Maher last night, you'd see that Kanye has a bit of a point (although he may have gone overboard.)
I'd pay USD hear the thoughts that were running through Myer's mind at the time. Poor dear.
Myers thoughts: "Do I nod? Do I partake in the use of ebonical lingo? OH GOD. THESE DECISIONS. I'VE A FLIGHT TO ZURICH IN AN HOUR, WEST. HURRY THE HELL UP."
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Mayor Nagin doesn't care about black people.
He cares about filling his own pockets and those of his fatcat friends.
Mayor Nagin and Mayor John Street of Philadelphia are the two most politically corrupt mayors in the entire country.
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Middle America (the folks most likely to pull out checkbooks and donate after watching a charity fundraiser) makes decisions a little bit differently than the "uniformly "cool" or "hip" bunch".
I love Bill Maher, and (although I missed REAL TIME this week) I am sure he did have some cogent observations on the K.W. comments. I have NEVER (not once) said on this board that I disagree with the content of K.W.'s remarks. (I haven't said I agree with them either). What I have said is that the comments were out of place at a charity fundraiser. Which brings me back to Middle Americans. After watching a fundraiser like the benefit for the victims of New Orleans, in most Middle American homes, the husband and the wife have a discussion about how much money, if any they are going to donate.
This brings me to you Adam. Do you think people who are George Bush supporters wrote checks Friday night after watching K.W.? If you do, you are living in fantasyland. Most likely, they put off the money discussion. Like I said before but you can't seem to get your mind around. It doesn't matter that you think people are partisan or foolish or stupid because they would not make a donation Friday night because of what a rapper said. Out of protest, I am absolutely certain the decision to not write a check Friday night was made in many homes. If this makes them bad people, than so be it. But whom does it harm? The hurricane victims. And yes, the same folks who didn't write a check Friday night will probably donate their money elsewhere and at a later date through some right wing organization. Maybe the money gets to hurricane victims, maybe it doesn't. But in the meantime, the victims suffer, first at the hands of George Bush, and now because of some ill-timed, selfish remarks by a publicity seeking rap star.
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Re: Mayor Nagin.
Louisiana politics is a cesspool, and has been since the state was founded.
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Kanye’s racially motivated statement, when looked at under the pretense of his being a musician first, and a humanitarian second, reveals how this was little more than a fat publicity stunt. A stunt which only benefits himself and will undoubtedly earn him millions more in album sales. Millions which hurricane victims will never see because Kanye is one of the largest, most ego maniacal, get-money-money personalities working in music today. And at last estimate, his new album was expected to sell more than 800,000 copies during its first week, making it one of the years biggest sellers.
If he really wants to help, maybe Kanye should pack up his ego for a few days and do what Dion Sanders has proposed: that of having every NFL player donate a minimum of 1,000 dollars to the hurricane victims. While that would only equal approx. 1.6 million, it’s certainly better than sitting by idly ala Kanye West and blaming others for having a black bias.
If West had been a team player rather than a team hater, perhaps he could have convinced all his millionaire rap buddy friends to give up a small piece of their collective fortunes to help their brethren in need. He could call up his pal Jay-Z, and together with Dr. Evil, the three could single-handedly provide transportation for hundreds of sick and needy hurricane survivors. “Give me an Escalade, a two-way, bling, bling on ebay… domino, motherfucker!”
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Kanye, last week: What's this? A hurricane? I can't wait for the class and race warfare aftermath so I can go on national TV and boldly assert my controversial view! Good thing I perfectly timed my weather machine in time for my album release!
Joe America: Interesting, this Kanye West character had some intriguing thoughts at the hurricane fundraiser. I'm going to buy his album!
This sounds about right, eh Seth?
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Those are excellent points in response to Seth's post. You can scour my posts (I know no one would really want to) and you won't find one word where I suggested that K.W. was attempting to plug his album. He did shine the spotlight on himself thereby taking it away from disaster victims. I don't know why he would want to do that, but he did.
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Maybe somebody has already said this, but I think that the fact that many black people have been left unrescued is due to much deeper problems than Kanye West has said, namely the fact that many are significantly poorer than others in New Orleans and thus did not have the means to transport themselves out of the area. The issue of black and other races living in poverty is sadly a long running and deep rooted issue that has always needed to be tackled and although it's a shame that a hurricane brought this into the view of the American public, hopefully, although complicated and difficult, it will be addressed.
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There was an excellent piece in Sunday's New York Times by author Anne Rice, who was born in New Orleans who offered first an historical look at why citizens of the place didn't leave the city in the distant past:
"Something else was going on in New Orleans. The living was good there. The clock ticked more slowly; people laughed more easily; people kissed; people loved; there was joy.
Which is why so many New Orleanians, black and white, never went north. They didn't want to leave a place where they felt at home in neighborhoods that dated back centuries; they didn't want to leave families whose rounds of weddings, births and funerals had become the fabric of their lives. They didn't want to leave a city where tolerance had always been able to outweigh prejudice, where patience had always been able to outweigh rage. They didn't want to leave a place that was theirs."
....and then as to why they did not leave with a hurricane approaching last week:
"Well, here's an answer. Thousands didn't leave New Orleans because they couldn't leave. They didn't have the money. They didn't have the vehicles. They didn't have any place to go. They are the poor, black and white, who dwell in any city in great numbers; and they did what they felt they could do - they huddled together in the strongest houses they could find. There was no way to up and leave and check into the nearest Ramada Inn.
What's more, thousands more who could have left stayed behind to help others. They went out in the helicopters and pulled the survivors off rooftops; they went through the flooded streets in their boats trying to gather those they could find. Meanwhile, city officials tried desperately to alleviate the worsening conditions in the Superdome, while makeshift shelters and hotels and hospitals struggled. "
The whole article can be viewed at:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/04/opinion/04rice.html
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The fact that most of you think it's all right that "middle America" wouldn't donate after seeing Kanye's righteous anger because it's just too shocking for their sensibilities, and for some reason assume his comments to be racist (he didn't say anything in a blanket statement whatsoever about white people) just goes to show how ignorant yall are about race in this here nation. That's right, you believe there should be a time and a place for uppity negroes to be impolite, and any time they break that shell well gosh darn that's just wrong. Wake the fuck up. Suckas. 10000 + people are dead due to goddamn negligence. We're still stuck in a war that makes no sense, has no justification, and no happy ending. When WILL IT BE OK TO POINT OUT THE OBVIOUS TRUTH? After Laguna Beach gets hit by a tsunami?
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Interesting chronology. James Lee Witt, was the director of FEMA (And cosidered to have been an excellent administrator during Clinton's term) until George Bush replaced him with Joseph Allbaugh, who had no expertise in disaster preparedness, but who cares? He was a close friend and political advisor of GWB so that was good enough for the president. When Allbaugh left FEMA, he was replaced by it's current director, Michael Brown. Brown's qualifications? He was Allbaugh's college roommate!
It would be funny if it were not so tragic.
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Seth, you can take a deep breath and relax. It's been reported that Diddy and Jay-Z have donated a million dollar each.
Now where's the money from the hockey players, huh?
And Daniel, I couldn't agree more.
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Kassim, I did not say ( and NO ONE ELSE said) that it was allright that "middle america," especially those who support the president would not donate immediately after K.W.'s remarks, I said it was unlikely that they would.
Stop making stuff up.
I agree that George Bush deprived citizens of a disaster of aid they needed. And with what K.W. did Friday, he and George have something in common.
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This is all just plain silly. No reasonable person can say what he did was a good thing. Now is not the time for personal ajenda. If he wanted to help people in need, he did not. Right or wrong, he jepordized the relief effort with a rediculous statement. Kanye, ...let it go..We all know you have a ton of talent... but you continue to act as a child would. Kanye.. you cannot buy class
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Listen up gorse you ignorant cracker - goddamn, you get a degree and think you're goddamn Cornel West or some shit... You are saying that West deprived people of aid by using a celebrity telethon to air his righteous and understandable view that the president and media were failing the black community resulting in deaths.
By refusing to call out on all those weak kneed SUV / Volvo driving suburban bitches for having their sensibilties shocked for seeing the uppity negro get a little angry, you are condoning their behavior and saying that there is nothing wrong with their shell shocked, ignorant, close minded world view. You are in agreement with them. You believe that there is a proper time and place for black people to get angry when they watch an entire city of their people drown and watch a largely white contingent of hotel guests in New Orleans skip ahead of them in line for evacuation.
All them muthafuckas is contributing one thing to the world: the spawn and progeny of clueless plebians like themselves, who do nothing but watch ignorant tv, worship ignorant celebrity, drive ignorantly purchased automobiles that suck gas like R Kelly sucks at opera, and who blabber on polite left wing drivel while allowing their nation to be apathetically stolen from them in a coup and hope that all emotion and truth is neutered from the media while allowing wars to be waged in their name that are unjust and unqualified. Calling out on all you pussies.
Don't hate on Kanye, hate on all those goddamn fools who have let the country get this way through inaction and ignorance.
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Some of us Brits are wondering why the richest nation in the world have to ask US for international aid. Something is very wrong here. I just hope you yanks remember this fiasco when it comes to VOTING TIME.
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Every criticism i've heard in these past days has to do with racism or classism. Its one of the BIGGEST NATURAL DISASTERS to ever hit the United States and on top of it, it happened in a place below sealevel. Stop blindly following a train of judgement that doesn't help anyone and get some common sense. WE'RE HUMANS , DON'T FORGET IT!
ps. As far as Kanye West's remarks. If he believes what he said i'm sure he would be more than obliged to give over 50% of his personal earnings to the relief effort. I doubt it though.
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patrick gorse: nope, i'm not jennifer. and in all honesty, i just waded into the middle of a discussion and apparently took your response to jennifer out of context. my bad.
but step outside. get off the internet. get some fresh air. and don't insult me needlessly.
the buses should have been driven by the people the mayor should have had set up to evacuate them. it's as simple as that. that's the moment the blame game starts. people on this very site have pointed out that they've been in hurricane effected areas, but the evacuations have been handled better, thus avoiding this kind of tragedy. now, after that, things got complicated in NO because of the levee and bridges and HORRIBLE communication by local authorities.
but all of this FEMA talk is completely and utterly beside the point, and is really just a political point scoring debate.
kanye's still a self-centered loud mouth who felt the need to add a little hate to the world on a night when he should have been able to find a little humility. yes there's racism in the world. kanye didn't open anyone's eyes to that. but he did remind me that there are some stupid people out there who think everything's about race.
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i hope this will help put an end to kanye's career.
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Those who respond to criticism of this administration by insisting that "this isn't the time for politics" don't seem to recognize that that in itself is a political claim. And it's one that suits the interests of this administration perfectly.
If the unnecessary death of many, and the unnecessary suffering of many more, is not an appropriate subject of righteous political anger, then what is? High gas prices?
"Rulers have a great aversion to violent changes. They want everything to stay the same--if possible, for a thousand years. If possible, the moon should stand still and the sun move no farther in its course. Then no one would get hungry any more and want dinner. And when the rulers have fired their shot, the adversary should not be permitted to fire; their own shot should be the last." -- Brecht.
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Nobody asked you for anything, Brit. Spend some time fretting about your own electoral decisions, mmmkay?
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You all are still picking fights with each other, pathetic and funny.... and tragic above all... No wonder this world is falling apart. People are even picking fights on a stupid indie music blog.....
Best post goes to Kassim that starts out wiht this....
Listen up gorse you ignorant cracker - goddamn, you get a degree and think you're goddamn Cornel West or some shit...
That gorse idiot was on this thing for hours last night trying to pick fights with everyone...
pathetic,juevnile, people with too much time on their hands idiots.....
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I heard Kanye's comments and agree with them. 'Nuff said.
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Hello, I am an older man (in my late 60's) and have been scouring the internet for the past week to find information about lost relatives in the New Orleans aftermath. After searching on google, I found this "blog". Quite frankly, I was shocked at what I saw..... I assume you all are our new generation, young folks who will carry our world forward. But all I see is hate, anger, people fighting with each other, and no ounce of hope. Why don't you all collectively use this blog as a forum to help people. Maybe use it as a forum for people to locate other people who are lost from the tragedy? Why don't you all collectively talk together, bond, and try to help? I years ago lost hope in this world, but manged to get it back together but after reading this my mind can only see bad things for our future. I remember Vietnam, I remember a lot of horrible things in my life. Why can't you all instill hope for people? And whoever is running this site is in my mind ultimately the one to blame. Maybe you have done some positive things outside of this blog but why not carry that forward on this blog? Please, I beg of you think about the ramifications of what you are establishing on this forum. Please.....
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SINCE WHEN SHOULD ANYONE HAVE TO HOLD BACK THIER FEELING FOR THE SAKE OF WHEN AND WHERE IT SHOULD BE THE RIGHT PLACE. KAYNE ALONG WITH MANY OTHER AMERCIANS IS FRUSTRATED WITH THE IMAGES PROJECTED ON T.V. HOW CAN SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAPPEN IN AMERICA. HOW CAN ALL THESE PEOPLE,HISPANIC,ASIAN,MIDDLE-EASTERN, WHITE, BLACK, OLD, YOUNG, DIE .... ALL B/C THE MEN IN SUITS WERE JUST WAITING. THAT'S O.K. THOUGH CAUSE BUSH HAS A NICE HOT SEAT WAITING FOR HIM ALONG WITH SATAN, HITLER, REGAN, BUSH SR, AND EVERYONE ELSE IN HIS ADMINISTRATION. DO WHAT YOU CAN TO HELP AND FOR THOSE WHO ARE FUCKIN RETARTED HERE'S A AWESOME PIECE ABOUT NEW ORLEANS THAT ANNE RICE WROTE ABOUT:
September 4, 2005
Do You Know What It Means to Lose New Orleans?
By ANNE RICE
La Jolla, Calif.
WHAT do people really know about New Orleans?
Do they take away with them an awareness that it has always been not only a great white metropolis but also a great black city, a city where African-Americans have come together again and again to form the strongest African-American culture in the land?
The first literary magazine ever published in Louisiana was the work of black men, French-speaking poets and writers who brought together their work in three issues of a little book called L'Album Littéraire. That was in the 1840's, and by that time the city had a prosperous class of free black artisans, sculptors, businessmen, property owners, skilled laborers in all fields. Thousands of slaves lived on their own in the city, too, making a living at various jobs, and sending home a few dollars to their owners in the country at the end of the month.
This is not to diminish the horror of the slave market in the middle of the famous St. Louis Hotel, or the injustice of the slave labor on plantations from one end of the state to the other. It is merely to say that it was never all "have or have not" in this strange and beautiful city.
Later in the 19th century, as the Irish immigrants poured in by the thousands, filling the holds of ships that had emptied their cargoes of cotton in Liverpool, and as the German and Italian immigrants soon followed, a vital and complex culture emerged. Huge churches went up to serve the great faith of the city's European-born Catholics; convents and schools and orphanages were built for the newly arrived and the struggling; the city expanded in all directions with new neighborhoods of large, graceful houses, or areas of more humble cottages, even the smallest of which, with their floor-length shutters and deep-pitched roofs, possessed an undeniable Caribbean charm.
Through this all, black culture never declined in Louisiana. In fact, New Orleans became home to blacks in a way, perhaps, that few other American cities have ever been. Dillard University and Xavier University became two of the most outstanding black colleges in America; and once the battles of desegregation had been won, black New Orleanians entered all levels of life, building a visible middle class that is absent in far too many Western and Northern American cities to this day.
The influence of blacks on the music of the city and the nation is too immense and too well known to be described. It was black musicians coming down to New Orleans for work who nicknamed the city "the Big Easy" because it was a place where they could always find a job. But it's not fair to the nature of New Orleans to think of jazz and the blues as the poor man's music, or the music of the oppressed.
Something else was going on in New Orleans. The living was good there. The clock ticked more slowly; people laughed more easily; people kissed; people loved; there was joy.
Which is why so many New Orleanians, black and white, never went north. They didn't want to leave a place where they felt at home in neighborhoods that dated back centuries; they didn't want to leave families whose rounds of weddings, births and funerals had become the fabric of their lives. They didn't want to leave a city where tolerance had always been able to outweigh prejudice, where patience had always been able to outweigh rage. They didn't want to leave a place that was theirs.
And so New Orleans prospered, slowly, unevenly, but surely - home to Protestants and Catholics, including the Irish parading through the old neighborhood on St. Patrick's Day as they hand out cabbages and potatoes and onions to the eager crowds; including the Italians, with their lavish St. Joseph's altars spread out with cakes and cookies in homes and restaurants and churches every March; including the uptown traditionalists who seek to preserve the peace and beauty of the Garden District; including the Germans with their clubs and traditions; including the black population playing an ever increasing role in the city's civic affairs.
Now nature has done what the Civil War couldn't do. Nature has done what the labor riots of the 1920's couldn't do. Nature had done what "modern life" with its relentless pursuit of efficiency couldn't do. It has done what racism couldn't do, and what segregation couldn't do either. Nature has laid the city waste - with a scope that brings to mind the end of Pompeii.
•
I share this history for a reason - and to answer questions that have arisen these last few days. Almost as soon as the cameras began panning over the rooftops, and the helicopters began chopping free those trapped in their attics, a chorus of voices rose. "Why didn't they leave?" people asked both on and off camera. "Why did they stay there when they knew a storm was coming?" One reporter even asked me, "Why do people live in such a place?"
Then as conditions became unbearable, the looters took to the streets. Windows were smashed, jewelry snatched, stores broken open, water and food and televisions carried out by fierce and uninhibited crowds.
Now the voices grew even louder. How could these thieves loot and pillage in a time of such crisis? How could people shoot one another? Because the faces of those drowning and the faces of those looting were largely black faces, race came into the picture. What kind of people are these, the people of New Orleans, who stay in a city about to be flooded, and then turn on one another?
Well, here's an answer. Thousands didn't leave New Orleans because they couldn't leave. They didn't have the money. They didn't have the vehicles. They didn't have any place to go. They are the poor, black and white, who dwell in any city in great numbers; and they did what they felt they could do - they huddled together in the strongest houses they could find. There was no way to up and leave and check into the nearest Ramada Inn.
What's more, thousands more who could have left stayed behind to help others. They went out in the helicopters and pulled the survivors off rooftops; they went through the flooded streets in their boats trying to gather those they could find. Meanwhile, city officials tried desperately to alleviate the worsening conditions in the Superdome, while makeshift shelters and hotels and hospitals struggled.
And where was everyone else during all this? Oh, help is coming, New Orleans was told. We are a rich country. Congress is acting. Someone will come to stop the looting and care for the refugees.
And it's true: eventually, help did come. But how many times did Gov. Kathleen Blanco have to say that the situation was desperate? How many times did Mayor Ray Nagin have to call for aid? Why did America ask a city cherished by millions and excoriated by some, but ignored by no one, to fight for its own life for so long? That's my question.
I know that New Orleans will win its fight in the end. I was born in the city and lived there for many years. It shaped who and what I am. Never have I experienced a place where people knew more about love, about family, about loyalty and about getting along than the people of New Orleans. It is perhaps their very gentleness that gives them their endurance.
They will rebuild as they have after storms of the past; and they will stay in New Orleans because it is where they have always lived, where their mothers and their fathers lived, where their churches were built by their ancestors, where their family graves carry names that go back 200 years. They will stay in New Orleans where they can enjoy a sweetness of family life that other communities lost long ago.
But to my country I want to say this: During this crisis you failed us. You looked down on us; you dismissed our victims; you dismissed us. You want our Jazz Fest, you want our Mardi Gras, you want our cooking and our music. Then when you saw us in real trouble, when you saw a tiny minority preying on the weak among us, you called us "Sin City," and turned your backs.
Well, we are a lot more than all that. And though we may seem the most exotic, the most atmospheric and, at times, the most downtrodden part of this land, we are still part of it. We are Americans. We are you.
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Most amazing moment I've seen on live TV in a while didn't involve Kanye, but the public meltdown of the Jefferson Parish, Louisinana President on Meet The Press ysterday. Watch this and send it along. It's fucking heartbreaking:
http://www.overspun.com/?p=1549
I couldn't give two shits about Kanye West, but Bush's poll numbers were hovering in the lower 40s in the weeks before Katrine. Hopefully those 40 are smelling the fucking coffee right now. Worst president in American history. Hands down.
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"And whoever is running this site is in my mind ultimately the one to blame."
Jesus, this is getting ridiculous. Maybe you should put this thread out of its misery Scott, if only to stop moronic comments like this from being posted.
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Out of the way dinosaur man! We've got squagels!
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Howsabout that new Dinosaur Jr. album?
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I like people, but only love people that are honest with themselves. We need to think earnestly and honestly about what kind a person we are. Blogs like this sometimes can help that.
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Much love to my Hebrew brothah Kanye West I'm so glad that at least one black celebrity was willing to speak the truth. It really hurts my heart that so many rich black celebs hold their tongue like nothing is happening. When people like Michael Jordan, Opra Winphrey, Magic Johnson, Tiger Woods and many others have the ability and prestige to make a mighty difference in the matter and yet they do and say nothing. It’s very sad to say but most of my people "black" people have been brain washed by this so called American dream. This so called American dream is nothing more then a corporate illusion of an American infrastructure made only to accommodate those who founded this racist Government. The black entrepreneur has very little avenues to venture and so in the area of Black Corporation we have what is called the "trickle down economics" even to those who are fortunate.
Yet to keep the fortune those who are fortunate enough to obtain this American dream, has to dance to the tune of the white infrastructure to survive and keep the life style they're accustomed to now living. The sad thing' out of all this, is that this American dream is exactly that, nothing more then a dream and sometimes a nightmare for those who are brought down by the very power that gave them the fantasy they wanted.
This is why Hebrew/black folk need to unite and come together on common ground. There are too many issues that are more common then not and these issues have no respect a person when it comes to wealth or poverty. These issues are a must to be addressed and evasive actions are crucial to bring attention to these matters. This country has a history and has always drawn the line on cultural, racial, and ethnic race issues. I say this because white America has a track record of always embracing other ethnic cultures and never fully the black American or African. This is why the so called American dream only leaves a black man continually trying to prove him self to be accepted.
While other ethnic races from other countries are openly and fully accepted with none or little criticism. For example the Bosnian Serbs and Romanian war in the early 90s the United nation responded quickly. The U.S. through the United Nations sent Peace Keepers troops to halt the war between the two peoples. They also set up refugee camps there to aid with food and medical care. As a result of the war there were many orphaned children and refugee families without homes to go too. Well guess what America did to help? Many white American families adopted these orphaned kids and the Government allowed many of these refugees to quietly come here to settle.
But what kind of real help have the U.S. or the United Nations have done to help maintain peace in Africa "none". The movie "Hotel Rwanda" cleared this up for me, in this movie based on a true story. A war in the late 90s erupted between two peoples in Africa the "Hutu and the Tutsi" that ended in a mass slaughter of thousands of men, women and children. What did America and the United Nations do, exactly nothing but stood by and watch the massacre unfold. Not to mention the wide spread famine, disease, and lack of water and provisions in the country and no help from any real political official at all to aid the people of Africa. The only source of any kind of help are just none profit organizations doing what they can to help.
So I say this to end my note, why and how can we really expect white owned America to reach out and help us here. When they have never helped our people from which they have stolen us from and continue to this day to use Africa and African Americans as a source of capital.
Much love from YAH Above and SHALAWAM
by Yah'see Yah'mes Ben Yisrael
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i knew the majority of people were black and/or poor in Louisiana before any of this happened. It never touched me as a race issue until now. thanks to the comments above, i see how racist our country has become. Racism continues to be perpetuated by comments in situations like this. Don't read in to who is doing what down there. No one should be taking bags of shoes or purses or televisions. Whoever is, should be arrested with whatever force is neccesary. People who are shooting at aid workers should be shot at, disgarding if they are black, white, rich, or poor.
Kanye West was out of place here. It doesnt matter what he said was true or not. What does matter is that it was out of place. He can say and believe what he wants, but choose when you make a statement like that. Please stop creating more racism where it doesn't exist, but in your own mind.
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"Where were you during the election?"
Yeah, because Kanye could have won Kerry the election. I didn't bother reading the last 100 comments but I'm going to go ahead and assume they were exactly like the first hundred or so. The fact that a prominent rapper can speak on network TV about how our president may be making mistakes is a great accomplishment. Kanye West was not creating more racism in my opinion, he was simply stating how we felt when he knew he had the forum. He spoke up against gay-bashing a few weeks ago, which I think is a huge step in the hip-hop community. I think it's incredible to see someone as influential as Kanye making socially conscious comments. I've got a fiver on 50 being a staunch Repub.
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Carolina writes:
SINCE WHEN SHOULD ANYONE HAVE TO HOLD BACK THIER FEELING FOR THE SAKE OF WHEN AND WHERE IT SHOULD BE THE RIGHT PLACE. KAYNE ALONG WITH MANY OTHER AMERCIANS IS FRUSTRATED WITH THE IMAGES PROJECTED ON T.V. HOW CAN SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAPPEN IN AMERICA. HOW CAN ALL THESE PEOPLE,HISPANIC,ASIAN,MIDDLE-EASTERN, WHITE, BLACK, OLD, YOUNG, DIE .... ALL B/C THE MEN IN SUITS WERE JUST WAITING. THAT'S O.K. THOUGH CAUSE BUSH HAS A NICE HOT SEAT WAITING FOR HIM ALONG WITH SATAN, HITLER, REGAN, BUSH SR, AND EVERYONE ELSE IN HIS ADMINISTRATION. DO WHAT YOU CAN TO HELP AND FOR THOSE WHO ARE FUCKIN RETARTED HERE'S A AWESOME PIECE ABOUT NEW ORLEANS THAT ANNE RICE WROTE ABOUT:
_________________________________________
It's unfortunate that so many on this board believe that free speech means the right to say whatever you want, where ever you want, whenever you want, and to not be criticized while saying it.
The above language and attitude is typical of posters on this board.
I posted about 20 messages on this board and was called an atheist, a homosexual, a racist, all while being cursed at with the most vulgar terms, while I NEVER returned one vulgarity. Such outbursts are not legitimate criticism; they are symptomatic of inarticulate and infantile mentalities with no decent argument to prosecute.
If this is an example of 'intelligent' discourse in America, we have much more to fear than bad presidents, bad weather and foolish rappers.
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you can all cheer! This is my last post. You can go back to talking about important things like ,are the boys in Oasis fighting again," or is Robert Smith's hair falling out.
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Wow.
A bunch of niggers get upset and then BAM! The whole world should care?
Know what I say? Fuck you.
You have your celebrities, you have your mainstream, what more do you want? Everyone knows about racism, it's just that most people don't care.
Gain some sense and figure out that you can't do sweet fuck all when it comes to something that's on such a large scale as it is. If you're black, just hope that you end up in some posse rap group, because that seems to be the only way that you can be come successful -- well, that's what most of you seem to believe.
It's those that are anti-racist which increase the racism of those on the other end.
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Good for you Kanye. Everyone wants to place this racism under the rug, but reality is, there is no way on GOD's green earth that it should have taken the government four days to get the people out of N.O. Bush was looking like, what should I do? Common sense tells you that the first thing to do was get those people out of there and get them to safety. I feel like many black americans feel, if it was an all white state, there is no way that they would have had to endure what the black people in N.O. endured. Many of you do not want to face reality, but this was true wakeup call that there is still racism in the year 2005. Wake up and smell the foul water.
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No shit Laser_ICE, you idiots need to grow the fuck up, and quit making everything in this world a racial issue. It will solve nothing....but it will divide this country even further if you keep making it something it is not. The only racist people in this country anymore are the blacks.
You have BET, right? But if there was a WET (white entertainment television), someone would SCREAM racism.
You have Ebony magazine, right? But if there were a caucasion magazine sitting on the shelves of Barne's & Noble's, you all would, again, scream racism.
I'm not a supporter of Bush at all....but those people were not neglected because or there race OR social status. It was a breakdown in the governments infrastrucure and ability to be prepared for something like this. Our national gaurd and other branches are spread too thin, which is disgusting considering what happened to this country this month four years ago. What if this were a dirty bomb that went off? Would it have taken this long to respond? This falls under homeland security if you ask me. Hopefully this time, our government will learn from this, so whent the next disaster happen (and it will), they won't look like complete morons with their thumbs up their asses. I'm sure all the Iraqi militants are laughing their asses off at us right now.
And again, to all you idiots screaming Racism...grow the fuck up, and focus on what's really happened. I suppose the hurricane had racist intentions too? I got news for you, there are thousands of white/hispanic/chinese/indian/etc people who have been effected by this as well. What makes your race so special to try and make this a race issue? If this were a predominatly white town to get hit....and it took more than adequate time to respond, do you think we would be claiming racism? Idiots.
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Dear Mr Bitch Ass Bush:
You know this is just FUCKING RIDICULOUS, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT AND DOING. I don't know why THIS MAN is in office of the UNITED STATES. All the SHIT we are going through now is because of this bitch (WAR, GAS PRICES, NOT FINDING OSAMA)etc. I believe he wasn't to be in the office for these next 4years I think it was another MAJOR screw up someone pulled. Now as far as Kanye West, you go boy!! It's about time someone said the truth, It's right smack in your face. He's sent all the troops over for war, and sorry to say but they are just dying off themselves, and what the FUCK are they over there for still anyway, you aren't looking for Osama who you need to been looking for, but I believe he is the DEVIL in disguise, because these things happening are in the book of Revelation in the bible, I think he knows where Osama is and he isn't trying to get him caught, I don't know if any of you are familiar with Farenheit 911, if not viewers get it and watch it, on there it shows his dumb ass reading books while the planes were being ran into the towers, let alone this PUNK MUTHFUCKA on vacation for 3 DAMN days while people are continually dying, without water, diseases, EVERYTHING YOU ALREADY KNOW GEORGE BUSH, it is all because of the people being BLACK, 9-11 you were there the next day with help, looking for the dead, etc...YOU ARE JUST A PLAIN DISGRACE to out country, and you should feel shame. Everyone plainy see's this point, that obviously you're racist, you aren't doing SHIT about gas prices, the statement you made "If you don't need gas, don't buy it" WHAT THE FUCK? You make the stupidist comments & you wonder why you are always the joke. I don't know who voted this man BACK in the White House, you haven't done anything but stir up BULLSHIT since you've been in office. And the "looting", people are doing what they have to do to survive for THEMSELVES, since this man George Bush isn't sending anyone in (or sending them when he feels like it) how the hell could they be portrayed like this. You have people supposedly coming over to send them food, why can't they just get food and water out of stores that are already there, i mean what is going to happen to it anyway but spoil and get thrown out? Come on..Look at the what the news is telling you, no water, no food, what are they all just supposed to sit and wait for everyone to die? Police offers are doing the same, everyone and I WOULD BE DOING THE SAME DAMN THING if I had to be in the same situation, and I'm sure YOU would TOO GEORGE. I hope you get everything written about you by all people around world. Why don't you move some people up in your "White House"..ever thought about that? NEXT ELECTION GET THIS FUCKIN JERK OUT OF HERE, should still be BILL CLINTON in office ANYWAY.
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RE: Yah'see Yah'mes Ben Yisrael
's comment above about "...Romanian war in the early 90s"
There was no such war involving my country of origin, Romania, in the '90s. It behoves you to get your facts straigth if you wish your argument to be taken seriously. This kind of misinformed half-truths sadly only perpetuate the stereotype of Americans as a nation of geographically and culturally challenged people.
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Most of you are truly ignorant.
It's really not worth educating you on the subject of emergency response and who's responsible because you have already allowed others to make your mind up for you.
This tells us a lot more about you than you think. Oh! WAIT. You don't think for yourselves. I didn't mean to confuse you.
And, by the way, I direct this to all races and all classes who are ignorant to the fact that the local and state governments have the primary responsibility when it comes to emergency aid for their citizens. Read the plan written by the Louisiana state government themselves. Vehicles were not provided as stated in the plan. Water was not. Food was not. And the list goes on.
The federal government saved their (Louisiana Governor and New Orleans Mayor) asses. Yet Louisiana officials immediately started pointing fingers because they knew idiots such as yourselves would believe everything you hear. They knew that if they spoke louder, you would believe them instead of doing your own thinking and research on the matter.
New York City was a successful emergency operation due to several reasons that differ from this tragedy. The most important was the fact that they had true leadership in the Mayor. New Orleans Mayor can think of nothing else but to rant and rave while New York City's mayor took charge of the situation and coordinated the efforts of several different departments.
Guess What?! There were black people in New York, Pennsylvania and The Pentagon too!
Take a look at yourself before you start calling others racists. Most likely it is you who has a prejudice towards others who do not resemble you.
Having participated in Humanitarian Relief efforts, I can tell you... the thought of race, religion or class is not even an issue. The mission at hand of saving and sustaining life is that is important.
You armchair Quarterbacks are the people who have made this about race, class and politics.
For that you should be ashamed.
If you do not like America, leave.
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And take Kanye, Michael Moore and Anne Rice with you.
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ignorant ass people. good at pointing fingers, but can't seem to be part of a solution. how come all neighboring areas were evacuated? kanye west is a freaking ignorant asshole who needs to have his ass doing the back stroke down bourbon street. "i've asked my manager to tell me what is the most i can donate"? what kind of bullshit is that? i'd give you more, but my manager told me all i had was a twenty. here ya go. ha. what a freak. you are all a bunch of chump son of bitches if you don't think the infrastructure within new orleans ISN'T to blame.
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FIRST I WILL LIKE TO SAY THAT EVERYONE THAT HAS BEEN EFFECTED BY KATRINA MY HEART GOES OUT TO YOU AND YOU ARE IN MY PRAYERS, AND KEEP YOUR HEAD UP. NEXT, THING I WANT TO STATE IS THAT I AM 22 YEARS OF AGE AND I DON'T HAVE MUCH BUT I AM DONATING THINGS TO THOSE IN NEED. NOW, I HAVE READ EVERYONE'S THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS ABOUT THINGS AND I FELT THAT I TOO HAVE AN OPINION THAT I WANTED TO VOICE. KNOW AS FOR AS KANYE NOT PICKING THE RIGHT TIME AND PLACE FOR HIS STATEMENT I CAN'T AGREE WITH. BECAUSE IF HE WOULD HAVE WAITED UNTIL EVERYTHING WAS DONE WITH AND FINISHED WE WOULDN'T BE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION AS WHOLE HEARTED AS WE ARE. AND TO SAY IT WAS NOT THE TIME OR THE PLACE FOR HIS STATEMENT, WELL YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT IT LIKE THIS IF DURING THIS MAJOR EVENT THEY WERE TELEVISING DEAD BODIES FLOATING IN THE WATER FACE UP TO WHERE EVERYONE COULD SEE, THIS COULD HAVE BEEN SOMEONES FAMILY MEMBER, FRIEND,OR LOVED ONE THAT THEY WERE SEARCHING FOR I MEAN WAS THAT THE RIGHT TIME TO TELEVISE THAT.
NEXT I WILL LIKE TO STATE THAT RACISM IS A FACTOR IN A MAJORITY OF THINGS IN AMERICA AND ACROSS THE NATION TODAY. NOW I KNOW THAT BUSH CAN NOT STOP MOTHER NATURE, BUT HE COULD HAVE BEEN MORE ENVOLVED FROM DAY ONE OF THIS EVENT LIKE HE WAS IN 9-11. NOW I WANT YOU THINK ABOUT SOMETHING, WHAT IF YOUR MOTHER OR YOUR DAUGHTER WAS TRAPPED IN A HOUSE IN LA AND YOU HERE THAT YOUR PRESIDENT IS ON VACATION AND NOTHING WAS BEING DONE AT THE TIME TO HELP YOUR LOVED ONE. WOULD YOUR FEELINGS BE THE SAME FOR YOUR PRESIDENT. SOMETHING ELSE, WHAT IF THAT WAS YOUR DAUGHTER OR YOUR SISTER BEING RAPPED HAVING HER LIFE FALL APART IN A BLINK OF AN EYE AND YOUR PRESIDENT IS FLYING OVER YOU DAUGHTER OR SISTER NOT DOING ANYTHING. YOUR FEELINGS STILL BE THE SAME ABOUT YOUR PRESIDENT
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So let me get this straight; President Bush conjures up this hurricane through his bad environmental policy, aims it at New Orleans, watches it unfold on tv, all because he doesn't care about black people. Are you fucking retarded? You know who doesn't care...Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton for starters. Where have they been. Jackson is one of the wealthiest men, not just wealthiest black men, in the country. He doesnt pop his head in front of the camera until days later and he is not even close to the site. This guy can't go away fast enough.
If you want to complain, here it is...The Mayor of N.O. has little or no power in these matters, that is just how the framework is written. The Mayor was waiting on the Governor, whom by the way received a call from the White House requesting they issue a "state of emergency" and let the federal government take over. She declined. The Mayor was promised school buses to transport the people out, remeber they where all lined up and ready to go but for reasons unknow, only 1 pulled out. Yes, there is plenty of blame to go around, but before you start criticizing, you need to understand what it is you are criticizing. It does not matter wheter it is a war, natural disaster or taxes, the government works in a very segregated way when it comes to separation of powers granted by a city, county or state. At the end of the day we need to learn some personal responsibility from all of this and work hard to keep it from happening again.
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wow... the responses here are basically split right up the middle. either the bush administration really has lulled americans into a state of apathy or they are a remarkably adept at handling their public image.
a lot of people feel the delay in federal response was beyond simple negligence and are crying racism. a lot of people are saying the federal government isn't to blame and that racism is a red herring. to those in the latter group, i would ask you this: are you saying that there is only one evacuation plan? even if the local governments were incompetent (which they clearly were), is that it then? there's no back-up plan? isn't that the whole point of FEMA, or is FEMA only allowed to deal with between state tragedies? the bottom line is this - blame is attributable all the way up the chain of command, including the bush administration.
but more generally, why can't people voice their opinions? a number of americans have claimed racism. a number have claimed classism. why should they be disallowed from doing so? why would you prevent these quesitons from being asked. why are you arguing that racism doesn't exist, or even more weirdly, that claiming racism exists is somehow tantamount to perpetuating racism (something i can't quite wrap my head around)? why care? just let the people go to the government with their questions and let them have their say. why can't americans ask tough questions of the bush administration? if people are saying FEMA abandoned them, let them start an inquiry (and please don't start that bullshit about it being a waste of government resources, when you have a president who has squandered a deficit and made slashing tax cuts for his wealthy buddies, not to mention wasted billions in iraq). thousands may have died in katrina - if now is the not the time for people to voice their questions and concerns to the administration - regardless of whether or not it fits with your world view - then when will it be? let the bush administration speak directly to the people on allegations of racism. if racism and FEMA response aren't the real issues, that will soon become clear and that will be the end of it. it's as though many americans are afraid of having a transparent government that is directly accountable to the people. isn't that the whole point of democracy? isn't that what the war in iraq is all about?
you cannot convince someone who has not experienced or witnessed racism to believe it exists. someone who has not been discriminated against, and who hasn't cultivated a certain degree of sympathy for other people, can never relate to that. that's fine, there's no law saying you should be sympathetic to people's cries of racism (once you don't actively perpetuate racist actions yourself). but in a democracy, people should be allowed to voice their concerns over how they're being ruled.
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oh, and for the record:
1. the hurricane was a natural disaster that devastated an area. so, no, hurricanes can't be racist. the real crime that has everyone up in arms is the lack of response and the people that died from lack of food and water - human (in)action.
2. bush cares a lot about black people. ask the thousands of black voters he disenfranchised in florida with his brother jeb and their sidekick katherine harris to steal the 2000 election. say what you want, but the man is clever...
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the "truth": i'm in the latter group. so i'll respond. no, there is no back up plan. the federal can not possibly react quickly. they're too huge, too full of beauracracy to do anything quickly. in fact, all of the disaster plans in every state explicitly say DO NOT EXPECT FEDERAL AID SOONER THAN 3-5 DAYS. most military experts will tell you that the response time for this disaster was actually amazingly quick, from a national military perspective. federal troops were actually on hand in 2 days, 3 at the most. but since nothing had been done by the local government up to that point, they were pretty much useless. getting the federal government and their red tape involved never improves things.
and i don't think anyone (at least any reasonable person...i can't speak for the crazy people here) is saying don't ask the race question. people understand that racism exists. but what good did kanye do by saying that this was purely a racial issue and the government and bush don't care about black people? none. he threw gasoline on the fire when he could've been more useful. by all means, hold a press conference. better yet, write a song. or if you must - say something useful on tv. not something slanderous and pointless. bush doesn't care about the people dying there? fuck you. he hurts for them as much as we do, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a partisan fuck. we can debate about tactics - kanye made it personal, and that was ignorant.
but what would you really like the federal government to do about racism? if you ask them tough questions are they going to outlaw racism? racism lives on in the hearts of ignorant people, and guess what? kanye fueled that fire. i'm sure he felt better about himself, but he didn't help.
and black and white voters are disenfranchised all the time by shady politicians. which makes me wonder again why you're asking those shady politicians to solve all of your problems.
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b -
i don't want to belabour an argument that has gotten off topic, but i thought i'd briefly address what you said, since it was directed to me.
no one is asking bush and his administration to solve racism. these "shady politicians" aren't being asked to solve all my problems. all i'm saying is that if people feel a certain way about an elected government they should be allowed to express those feelings. why should people be told not to raise questions of racism? these politicans didn't inherit their jobs (ok, bush excepted) and need to be accountable. let the onus be on the administration to prove to the people that they've done their job thoroughly. if FEMA responded within their mandate, and no susbstantive racism was at play, then that will be the end of it. if FEMA was incompetent, and racism is somehow demonstrated (for example, through increased budget cuts to health care and emergency medicine access to poor, urban areas that are not consistent with cuts across the state/country), then the administration (bush or anyone else) will have to explain. and if they can't explain, they need to move the fuck out of the way to get someone in who can do a better job. how can people know what they're voting for if their questions aren't answered? in a democracy, the government needs to be accountable to all people, particularly in a clusterfuck like this, and they need to face the strictest standards of scrutiny, and be able to explain their actions and intentions. if not, the entire democratic system is a sham.
the people who say don't raise race, everything is race, etc are missing the point. if racism exists, being silent about it will only perpetuate it. what are people afraid of? if race truly isn't the issue, the government will be able to demonstrate that race wasn't a factor(and maybe this country can get past race, and start working together). not only will they be able to, it will be their job to demonstrate that. if race is an issue, we can perhaps get the government to articulate where precisely it is a problem (i'm thinking social infrastructure here) and people can work together to fix it. unless of course, the bulk of americans like race relations the way they are.
as for kanye, there can be no agreement. if you believe race was an urgent issue in the katrina response you'll think he was right. if you don't believe it, then you won't. i guess we'll always wonder until those involved in the katrina response/clean-up address those questions. if they ever do.
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Well, where to begin. If this whole country isn't hurting from what's happened in the last week, there is a big problem. Bigger than race, class or politics. Of course there are ignorant biggots, as far as class everybody from the middle class on down is having a lot of hard times these days. Black , White or any other ethnicity $3 plus a gallon for gas is the same for everybody. We do need to deal with race problems, it's been an issue for how many hundred years now? For God sake there are children and old people and everywhere in between dying down there. No body needs to stick their head in the sand like there is no problems going on with the Gov. , race relations and the poorest in this country, they are real problems. We've all got to deal with this. Nobody is going to be left untouched by this total hell from Katrina. Wheather you pay more for gas, have no place to live, lose family and friend or even just have to pay more for that cup of coffe. We all will be paying for this horrible disaster on our country. We have enough people trying to pull us down outside this country, why are we doing it to our selves. I'm not saying everybody hug and kiss and make up. Just put things in perspective. Most of us are on our butts at home typing on the computer, while the dead lay in the streets. Wake up and if we don't like how somebody else is running the show, then get the heck out there and do something to help. Does it hurt to be judged by the way you look and the color of your skin, YES!!!! But NOBODY is gonna every keep me down. I have a choice how I allow others to treat me, so does everybody else out there. All that aside, the problem in the gulf coast remains, please just pull together long enough to help others who can't help themselves.
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I lied! I'm baaaaaaaccck!!!.
the 'truth' writes:
"if you believe race was an urgent issue in the katrina response you'll think he was right."
WHAT THE HELL DOES THIS MEAN???????
Doesn't 'truth' mean "lack of response," since that SEEMS to be where 'truth' is going in other parts of 'truth's' argument? And if race was an 'urgent issue' whatever the hell that means in this context, is 'truth' saying that Bush was urgently trying to kill blacks? If so, why? If not, why use the word, urgent? Or was it just urgent to use the word urgent?
You people love to talk without making sense. When someone comes in to try and have an intelligent discussion with you, (at least on their end) you call him a homo and an atheist and tell him to go blow Edwin, who BTW was one of the few people on this board who knew how to conduct an intelligent argument.
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JENNIFER,
THIS IS ADDRESSED TO YOU. I UNDERSTAND 100% THAT BUSH COULDN'T MAKE PEOPLE LEAVE THERE HOMES, AND YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT HE COULD HAVE HAD A QUICKER RESPONSE IN HELPING SAVE THEM. AND PROVIDED A WAY FOR THOSE PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T HAVE TRANSPORTATION TO LEAVE. IF HE KNEW THEY HAD TO EVACUATE HE KNEW THAT THERE WERE SOME THAT HAD NO MEANS OF TRANSPORTATION THAT DID WANT TO LEAVE. SO BEFORE YOU CALL PEOPLE OUT THEIR NAMES, THINK FIRST.
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patrick gorse:
wow... let me say this. patrick gorse, you are a fucking idiot. and that is the truth. do you think before you say anything, or is being personally attacked on the internet some kind of perverse pleasure for you?
if you go through all my posts, you'll see that i said that bush is NOT proactively being racist. what i, and many other people said, was that the federal response has been hesitant to the point of being negligent. and that *maybe* race - whether consciously or not - structured that negligence. now disagree with that if you want, but why the hell are you attacking me?
from thefreedictionary.com:
ur·gent (ûrjnt)
adj.
1. Compelling immediate action or attention; pressing.
2. Insistent or importunate: the urgent words "Hurry! Hurry!"
3. Conveying a sense of pressing importance: an urgent message
do you see now you dumb fuck? it's an adjective, not an adverb. if you believe that race/racism is part of the federal government's *negligence*, then you'll believe it is an urgent issue (i.e. of pressing importance, compelling immediate action or intention). if, like kanye west, you believe that race is part of the immediate problem here (and you're free to disagree with him), then you'll agree that it is an urgent issue that needs to be addressed. don't change what i said, in order to disagree with me. it is the addressing the racist underpinnings of INaction that is urgent. not that bush is urgently trying to kill black people, you stupid fuck. don't misrepresent me in order to attack me because umpteen people attacked you for being a complete moron.
moreover, who the fuck parses people's sentences on an internet chatboard? this is a conversation, not a legal contract. if you want to parse things, then fine... but read all of that person's messages, and parse it correctly. i said repeatedly that bush is not being proactively racist (that would be ludicrous), but rather that in his failure to act, race *may* be part of the problem, and if so, then it's urgent to discuss it. don't take one thing out of context, mischaracterize the entire gist of what i said, and proceed to parse it wrong. i didn't think you could make yourself look more foolish than you did earlier, but somehow you surprised me.
before you respond, with your pinky on the caps-lock, please take a break from your computer, go for a walk, get some air, and think about what your intentions are. don't come in and re-post the same shit you've said 15 times over. you're so busy repeating yourself you're not listening to, or reading what, anyone else has to say.
you've hijacked what was a civil discussion about current events between myself, b, and other people long enough. fuck off.
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You know, I saw Sean Penn and Harry Conick, Jr. in New Orleans - actually trying to help people. Where was Kanye West? Oh, yeah. He was shopping and avoiding tv's because he cared so much. He didn't speak out because he cared. He just finally felt guilty for NOT caring. All he's done is criticize (dis) everybody who IS helping. And white looters? You mean there were white people there dying, too? There goes the racist theory. And remember people, New Orleans wasn't the only area hit. Four entire states were devastated. Dozens of towns and cities leveled and flooded, their citizens homeless, too. Stop the boo-hooing and just do whatever you can to help.
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Strange, but I thought that I saw white people, Asian people, Indian people and all other races down there when I lived there as well as on the TV crammed in the super dome, and waiting on rooftops to be rescued...
I was just waiting for some one to try to pull the race card out! I hate Bush, but his big mistake isn't racially motivated. It was putting an idiot like Brown in such an important position with no experience! Pulling the race card was a low blow not only to us African Americans, but to all Americans! I understand that Kanye was upset and I don't think any one has a right to censor any one else but Celebrities have a responsibility to think before they speak! If you can’t compose yourself and think before you speak you shouldn't be allowed to speak on TV. Impressionable children as well as other People from all over the world saw that and now I am sure they think the US is full of racist idiots! I am proud to be an American and though I don't agree with our president, it is this great country that gives me the right not to agree with him! So bash him all you want but just remember to think before you speak. People do more by helping than sitting around trying to play the blame game! Notice, Kanye was waiting for his business advisor to tell him how much he could donate rather than just donating. Every one I know, myself included, donated instantly. Money, time, supplies, their homes what ever we could and in some cases more. It’s your money do what you want with it. Even if you may have to go a week or so with out your limo or expensive designer clothes… Lets see how many of those survivors he lets move with him into his mansions!
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I know what "urgent" means. You do not know how to use it in a coherent sentence.
'truth' writes:
wow... let me say this. patrick gorse, you are a fucking idiot.....do you see now you dumb fuck?....fuck off.
I'll parse what you say because it proves you are an ignorant vulgarian with no other way to prosecute an argument than by spewing vulgarities. When YOU disagree with some one that is just you getting your point of view across. When I do I am "hijacking a civil discussion." CIVIL????? Any discussion with profane illiterates like you is UNCIVIL by definition.
I have merely discussed issues. However, you, when faced with a disagreeing point of view react like a spoiled child and unleash a polluted stream of expletives.
Look in the mirror.
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Well...
Did anyone check out Barbara Bush, indicating in a speech that this whole episode is "working out very well for them" referring to those who were displaced, as many have decided to stay in the placed to which they are being relocated? Her tone and message seem to indicate that the people who waited for up to 5 days in fetid water filled with corpses, human waste, disease and heavy metals contamination are being opportunistic in their desire not to return. Methinks it sheds some light on whether or not the Bushes, or their America, care about people of color. Of course, if you are even entertaining a doubt in your mind about it, it is most likely an academic issue for you (i.e., you are white).
Anyway -- that's not even what I wanted to say. Since this disaster hit -- and KNOWING that Bush doesn't care about Blacks, I have been in my home crying and lamenting the fact that there is no organziation of Black people for Black people. Not the NAACP, which can only champion causes acceptable to their purse-string masters. I'm talking about Buffalo Soldiers (the bike club), or 50 brothers pooling their cash and getting some trucks and taking care of our own people. Radical, ain't it? However, how long can we sit on our hands waiting for help from those who have not the inclination to help us???
Wake up Black man. Kanye's not the point (though he most def spoke truth to power). Rap is not the point. The point is survival, pure and simple. Are you up for THAT game? If we don't take care of our own, who's gonna? Ever heard of Boogie Down Productions -- how about Black Disaster Preparedness...? Don't trust the governor, the mayor or the president with your life -- can you see now how trustworthy they are? Let's get it together yall.
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As far as race not being an issue, anyone ever heard of MK-NAOMI (an acronym for Negroes Are Only Momentary Individuals)? This project spawned the Special Virus Cancer Program, the director of which "discovered" the AIDS virus (incidentally, he also applied for and received a patent for a means of continuous production of the AIDS virus -- patent # 4,647,773. I wonder why he would need to continuously produce the virus he is supposedly fighting, but I guess NAOMI explains it pretty well).
Let's not forget Tuskegee, where Black patients were not treated with a readily-available medicine for syphilis, but rather were given placebos (as well as toxic "treatments" like mercury rubs) in order to study the unchecked progression of the disease. These men went home to their families and procreated, passing on the incurable illness to their wives and children in many cases.
This is the government that suddenly cares about people of color? less than 150 years after they enslaved these same people, and less than 40 years after the end of the Tuskegee experiment??? Is anyone being fooled?
Please. Black people -- gain information and take action. Others -- believe what you want.
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sorry couldn't help myself....couldn't resist
There is this man named Gorse
Who hijacked a message board on his little white high horse
He paraphrased folks words in a way that suited him best
Returning over and over again without even a pause for some rest
His words were angry barbs and his fights were numerous
And at the end of the day the Gorse was not even humorous
A card carrying member named Kinky_Lola of the Atheist Parents Organization
Oh Gorse, Oh Gorse please spare us all your ignorant humilation
sorry just couldn't help myself
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“He paraphrased folks words in a way that suited him best
Returning over and over again without even a pause for some rest”
the truth :
wow... let me say this. patrick gorse, you are a fucking idiot.....do you see now you dumb fuck?....fuck off.
Call it ‘paraphrasing’ if you want, but they are all invectives used against me in ONE short post! Painting me as taking this out of context is ludicrous! If you don’t want to be critiqued for idiotic comments, don’t make them. Take responsibility for your own words!!!!!!!
“A card carrying member named Kinky_Lola of the Atheist Parents Organization”
This is how a moron prosecutes an argument. Libelous lies.
I know most of you have brains, but you DO NOT use them. You lash out with profanities and lies. Oh yeah, and with childish rhymes.
Finally:
“Who hijacked a message board on his little white high horse”
If anything this message board has been hijacked by vapid, vulgar children, incapable of discussing in a civilized manner.
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whatever happened to crazy?
maybe it's not ignorance, maybe it's not that some people argue like assholes. maybe some of these people are just crazy.
by the way, the truth, i appreciated your reply, and i'm completely fine with ending our discussion with an "agree to disagree" since you seem to have put honest thought into your posts. i just didn't have the heart to continue anymore with the nonsense going on.
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b, you are righteously committed to fighting racism, which puzzles me because at the same