Calling All Sound Engineers
We know a lot of you have studio recording experience, so this discussion will be right up your alley. By calling its list "Top Ten Worst Sounding Records, 1997-Present," Stylus was able to include some of our favorite albums and artists. (One would imagine they'd say, "Hey, great writing, but shitty sound!") By their own admission, the list is "designed to infuriate you as much as educate you" and is limited to indie rock. Here's their list of lovable albums with "hideous sonics":
10. Keane - Under The Iron SeaAs always, we're looking to you for suggestions of records that would qualify for the list, and to tell us which of the identified records don't belong on there at all (shouldn't be hard!). And we'll grant their premise: Some records can have brilliant writing and yet exhibit poor sound production. But the deeper issue at play is this: If a record is critically hailed, personally loved, and flat-out incredible to hear repeatedly -- how could it ever be considered one of the "worst sounding"? In other words, doesn't an album's production value become part of what makes that album so highly listenable -- technical bullshit aside, superseding all auxiliary concerns? The floor is yours.
09. Massive Attack - Collected
08. Radiohead - Kid A
07. Bloc Party - Silent Alarm
06. Cocteau Twins - Heaven Or Las Vegas
05. Phoenix - It's Never Been Like That
04. The Shortwave Set - The Debt Collection
03. Arcade Fire - Funeral
02. The Flaming Lips - At War With The Mystics
01. Oasis - Be Here Now
Posted at 8:29 AM in Shit List
I had a seizure the first time I heard "This Modern Love" on Silent Alarm. I still assure people the absolute only way to listen to it is on a set of headphones or surrounded by speakers, and this all happened before I figured out that "Jump right" comes out of the right headphone and "jump left" comes out of the left headphone. All in all though, amazing album, amazing sound, amazing band.
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Radiohead sounds "cold, flat, inhuman, distant"? Could have fooled me.
Thank goodness my favorite album didn't make the list: Huey Lewis and the News, "Sports"
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i like that one pretty much every one he says its either 'too loud' or 'not loud enough' - genius.
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that's just silly.
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I wonder what they'd have to say about, for example, GBV's "Bee Thousand".
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Is Metallica's Saint Anger too big to be considered Worst SNARE sound EVER? It sounded like it was recorded up Lars' empty coked up naval cavity.
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kid a? godrich is genius , i think its one of the better SOUNDING records out there, and funeral??? are you kidding?> that record could not have sounded any different, actually i think both of those records are prime examples of what an album SHOULD sound like, also i loved the drum tones on silent alarm, thought they were very crisp and round, made my ears smile
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Pretty much anything recorded in a professional studio after 1989 sounds like utter shit to me. God I hate the 90s.
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Wolf Parade - Apologies the Queen Mary, & Sunset Rubdown - Shut up I am Dreaming: taking the dynamic out of dynamic range.
Somebody get Spencer Krug a good recording engineer and a decent studio.
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Is Metallica's Saint Anger too big to be considered Worst SNARE sound EVER? It sounded like it was recorded up Lars' empty coked up naval cavity.
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Pretty much anything recorded in a professional studio after 1989 sounds like utter shit to me. God I hate the 90s.
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The Shins new one. Everything "sounds" great, but the drums overpower everything, even the vocals which is what the Shins are all about for me. The songs of The Shins don't warrant huge drums and vocals with low volume. Quite the opposite.
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i loved the sound on arcade fire and i think the bloc party record is a good example of what a modern rock band SHOULD sound like - that record is a great new reference cd for a lot of the rock stuff i work on.
i really hate saying what sounds bad unless i can work on fixing it. there's a thousand indie rock bands out there that tried to make a record and even though it doesn't hold up to a big studio record, it's still an effort... bands like that aren't looking to make a good sounding record, they're looking to make a good record, period.
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kid a? godrich is genius , i think its one of the better SOUNDING records out there, and funeral??? are you kidding?> that record could not have sounded any different, actually i think both of those records are prime examples of what an album SHOULD sound like, also i loved the drum tones on silent alarm, thought they were very crisp and round, made my ears smile
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Bob Dylan tried to make a similar list, but it ended up being a 35,000-way tie for number one.
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Where the hell is the first Shins record??
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what's wrong with phoenix. it's nothing groundbreaking, but it was a great recored and as far as i'm concerned it sounded fine. i strongly disagree with radiohead, bloc party and arcade fire being on there. i'm starting to wonder if magazines make shity list's just so it get's talked about.
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If you want a Godrich album try Beck "The Information". That album has no dynamics and showcases nothing but the mediocre run of the mill-costco-walmart sounding sh@t. Also, try the new Rapture "Pieces of the People We Love". Same thing. Too generic and no dynamics.
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Half those albums aren't indie. The other half aren't rock. Ah, lists.
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If you want a Godrich album try Beck "The Information". That album has no dynamics and showcases nothing but the mediocre run of the mill-costco-walmart sounding sh@t. Also, try the new Rapture "Pieces of the People We Love". Same thing. Too generic and no dynamics.
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Half those albums aren't indie. The other half aren't rock. Ah, lists.
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If you want a Godrich album try Beck "The Information". That album has no dynamics and showcases nothing but the mediocre run of the mill-costco-walmart sounding sh@t. Also, try the new Rapture "Pieces of the People We Love". Same thing. Too generic and no dynamics.
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Unwound-Leaves Turn Inside You...
I love the song writing but it sounds totally flat...
the drums sound like someone pounding wet leaves on tarp.
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If you want a Godrich album try Beck "The Information". That album has no dynamics and showcases nothing but the mediocre run of the mill-costco-walmart sounding sh@t. Also, try the new Rapture "Pieces of the People We Love". Same thing. Too generic and no dynamics.
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The writer is an idiot! He says that Kid A is "cold, flat, inhuman, distant," and that "they're electronic songs mixed and mastered like rock songs." Uh, isn't that EXACTLY the point of the album? Both those statements are true so I guess Radiohead achieved what they were aiming for.
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Half those albums aren't indie. The other half aren't rock. Ah, lists.
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I'm kind of surprised no one mentioned the Babyshambles album--arguably the production is supposed to invoke a narcoleptic stupor. I thought it hurt a potentially good album. I also think a lot of Queens of the Stone Age albums sound like shit--particularly the drums which is a shame, especially when Dave Grohl ends up sounding all muddy
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If you want a Godrich album try Beck "The Information". That album has no dynamics and showcases nothing but the mediocre run of the mill-costco-walmart sounding sh@t. Also, try the new Rapture "Pieces of the People We Love". Same thing. Too generic and no dynamics.
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amazing topic and discussion!
ok in vague on worst..most hardcore records...DYI ethic is great and all..but music is meant to be enjoyed and gladly listened to.
Past that.
A NYC/Brooklyn band called Miracle of 86 put out an album called "famous last words" terrible mix.
The tape hiss on the moldy peaches album was pretty bad.
umm...zwan - mary star of the sea
how can a major label put out an album from a major band where the producer decided to normalize all the tracks to make it "loud at any volume" which lead to digital distortion etc that is audible on the cd itself?
i have more..i will return!
tom.
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Come On Die Young by Mogwai. What should have been the height of post rock grandeur is muddied by the foul work of David Friedman. Also ruined the last Sleater Kinney record.
Silent Alarm is too slick sounding. I think they would have done well to have recorded with a more stripped down Albini style engineer.
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Absolutely ridiculous. This is like someone criticizing the cinematography in "The Godfather" for being too dark.
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I think Bloc Party should be closer to number 1. I like it a fair bit, but there is something unpolished about the sound on that CD. I feel like it was recorded with really shitty instruments that somehow managed to be in tune, or in someone's shitty garage.
It just doesn't have the sound I would identify with most studio albums.
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Die hard Rush fans complained to no end about how Vapor Trails sounded like shit. A fan ended up remastering the whole thing himself and even offered up a step-by-step method at a fansite on how to DIY the mix to kill off the excessive treble.
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pavement - slanted and enchanted
hands down
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IMO 'The Information' sounds great - it's 'Odelay' that sounds like butts. Or maybe that's just the copy I have?
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Libertines' "Up the Bracket," which is still great.
The Strokes albums, which aren't, because they think sounding shitty makes them "authentic." (That "hot mic" sound might work ONE time in ONE song.)
You know, I'm not sure Ted Leo's got it figured out yet, either, but he's still great.
Beyond that, I don't know where the blueprint came from for all these teen-emo bands with nasally, auto-pitched vocals and that gurgly "Cher" effect--but that is BAD SOUND.
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two dicks to il for the fridmann diss! How about My Chemical Romance, Fall Out Boy, Panic! etc.. ?? That genre sounds ridicules, the compression makes me want to vomit, and the autotune? Takes a page from the book of Cher.
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Seriously, dudes, you've got to fix your comments. The thing acts like it's not doing anything, so you hit it again, and they you've triple-posted and annoyed everybody like a tool.
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Chris, we must reading each other's mail.
And, seriously, dudes, you've got to fix your comments. The thing acts like it's not doing anything, so you cancel and hit it again, and then you've triple-posted and annoyed everybody like a tool.
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two dicks to il for the fridmann diss! How about My Chemical Romance, Fall Out Boy, Panic! etc.. ?? That genre sounds ridicules, the compression makes me want to vomit, and the autotune? Takes a page from the book of Cher.
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I would say the new Neil Young album Living With War qualifies as a poorly "sounding" record, and Neil would actually agree,no doubt!
That's why he has remixed it and is ready to release the remixed version, this month, I think.
I know he's not INDIE, but so what. He's a legend, and still relevant after nearly 40 years. It's also a great record all the way through (whether you agree with the political stances/satire of it or not).
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This critic fails to discern where the non idealistic quality of the sound was inentional (Radiohead, Flaming Lips) and where it was not (Oasis, Cocteau Twins)
I think this guy's attack on Radiohead was a bit uneducated. In terms of sound, it is perfect, almost sterile, but that was the point I thought. The concept of techno songs mixed like rock songs is ingenious, but I don't think Thom nor Nigel would agree with that assessment.
He is right on the money on the Cocteau's Heaven or Las Vegas. I've always noticed bits of distortion and muddier sounds that are probably the result of Robin Guthrie's drug intake at the time. I also have the remastered version and its not a lot better. BUT i still love that album no matter what.
Be Here Now is awful sounding for the same reasons (cocaine).
I'm not sure why he singled out the newest Flaming Lips. All of them have that lo fi quality. Once again - I thought that was the point.
I've never read Stylus, and now I doubt I would ever consider picking it up. I've hated most Top Ten lists in most magazines, but they at least had decent arguments even if they did not include albums I thought should have been included. Stylus just proves they really don't even know what they're talking about.
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"Is Metallica's Saint Anger too big to be considered Worst SNARE sound EVER? It sounded like it was recorded up Lars' empty coked up naval cavity.
Posted by: krist at November 21, 2006 10:01 AM"
For Metallica's worst snare sound ever, I would nominate "And Justice for All." No midrange at all on the drums.
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I HAVE THE DEFINITIVE ANSWER TO THIS: Either of the last two Twilight Singers albums. Not like you can still make Dulli's voice sound good (and I LOVE the guy), but these things sound atrocious -- muddled, no dynamics, everything treated in some horrible echo effect (sorry, don't know recording terms...). Is anyone with me on this? I seriously feel like there is something wrong with my stereo, or ears, every time I put these on (and I do put them on pretty frequently, hoping they'll somehow start sounding better...)
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"What's the Story Morning Glory" definitely has some shitty, thin production (that was probably intentional), but especially when compared to "Be Here Now" which by comparison sounds like a million pounds. "Nevermind" has some real glossy sounding production that sounds a little awkward now, but sounded awesome at the time. And "Pinkerton" probably has some of the best lo-fi production in recent years.
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Well, The Flaming Lips have said that they purposely fucked up the sound on their last album, so that it would sound just as good in "those shitty iPod headphones" as it would in a home stereo.
Personally, I find that albums on the other end of the spectrum, ones that are too glossy and pristine, are the worst-sounding. Albums like John Mayer's "Continuum," which had some really solid tracks, just sounded too polished off. It's one of the reasons I didn't like DJ Shadow's "The Outsider," among many other reasons.
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Every Strokes album sounds like crap. But they're a lousy band so it works out.
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"Is Metallica's Saint Anger too big to be considered Worst SNARE sound EVER? It sounded like it was recorded up Lars' empty coked up naval cavity.
Posted by: krist at November 21, 2006 10:01 AM"
For Metallica's worst snare sound ever, I would nominate "And Justice for All." No midrange at all on the drums.
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How about every made-on-the-cheap-with-Pro Tools album since the start of the home recording era?
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"For Metallica's worst snare sound ever, I would nominate "And Justice for All." No midrange at all on the drums."
And the bass is pretty much nonexistent.
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Richard, I'm with you on Twilight Singers. I love Powder Burns, but most of it is a sonic mess (the drums are especially horrible). Dulli needs to stop recording with his friends and hire an outside engineer/mixer.
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"Is Metallica's Saint Anger too big to be considered Worst SNARE sound EVER? It sounded like it was recorded up Lars' empty coked up naval cavity.
Posted by: krist at November 21, 2006 10:01 AM"
For Metallica's worst snare sound ever, I would nominate "And Justice for All." No midrange at all on the drums.
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couldn't be more right on with the flaming lips choice. every song clips. i can't imagine what they were thinking.
disagree with the comment here about the new shins album. i actually think the vocals are more prominently featured and distinct than in the previous two albums. yes the drums are in the forefront, too, but i think they sound great.
regina spektor's latest album needs an honorable mention. horrible vox clipping at times. see "on the radio" (1:07).
go! team, too. horrible sibiliance and overloading.
in general, i'm continually amazed at the amount of sibiliance and distortion indie producers allow into their mixes.
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Most of the records on this list have actually been recorded at top studios by top engineers.
The Bloc Party record breaks ground in recording and mixing...it sounds AMAZING sonically. For nerds, a little brand called Neve is definitely in use.
Whoever wrote this list is deaf and dumb.
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Most of the records on this list have actually been recorded at top studios by top engineers.
The Bloc Party record breaks ground in recording and mixing...it sounds AMAZING sonically. For nerds, a little brand called Neve is definitely in use.
Whoever wrote this list is deaf and dumb.
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Most of the records on this list have actually been recorded at top studios by top engineers.
The Bloc Party record breaks ground in recording and mixing...it sounds AMAZING sonically. For nerds, a little brand called Neve is definitely in use.
Whoever wrote this list is deaf and dumb.
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I love Source Tags and Codes, but the production is terrible. Half the time you can barely hear Keely's vocals. But then I listened to So Divided, and I wished I couldn't hear his vocals.
Anyone else think the production on Mastodon's new one is kinda shitty? Pretty weak for a metal outfit. I love the band, but the record is not very crankable. Kinda muddy.
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Most of the records on this list have actually been recorded at top studios by top engineers.
The Bloc Party record breaks ground in recording and mixing...it sounds AMAZING sonically. For nerds, a little brand called Neve is definitely in use.
Whoever wrote this list is deaf and dumb.
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obs many of you have never worked with a producer before. most of them have a single idea of how things should sound, i.e. "perfect" i.e. just like everything else. try asking most producers to put reverb on vocals, for example.
this list is for idiots. they'd probably want to redo the Velvet Underground in the style of Richard Marx
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So far as recent indie albums are concerned, I was disappointed with the production on Sufjan's Illinois album and Beirut's Gulag Orkestar. Also, after seeing the Decemberists perform The Tain live I could never listen to the recording again. In most cases that tends to be my measuring stick at least for rock music - comparing the live performance to how they're able to capture it on disc. Although by those standards, Silent Alarm is amazing...
Radiohead and The Flaming Lips set out to achieve a certain sound and created albums that were unique, difficult to imitate and dare I say timeless. I'm sure many people who aren't fans of MBV would say that Loveless sounds like crap, but anyone who knows anything about production will tell you it's a masterpiece.
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Every single Broken Social Scene record. Those guys gotta tell their mix engineer to go easy on the compression and to bring the drums and bass up in the mix. Oh. And for Christ's sake, more cowbell!
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I feel there are much better examples than were chosen.
Surprised no one has mentioned PJ Harvey's Rid of Me. Flood's mixes on To Bring You My Love really resonate with me, to the point where I feel Rid of Me could have been a much better album had it not been for Albini's muddling.
Absolutely agree with Powder Burns in others comments. It's barely listenable.
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Damn it, there is nothing wrong with that Phoenix record!
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gotta love how they limit it to indie rock since 1997 so they dont have to pretend to know about anything else.
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Devendra Banhart - Oh Me Oh My The Way The Day Goes By The Sun is Setting Dogs Are Dreaming Lovesongs of the Christmas Spirit
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My pick (sorta a cop-out) is the Velvet Underground's (indie-ish?) self-titled 2nd record--but only on CD! Any CD or MP3 version you can find sounds so muddled and crapped out that it actually hinders the enjoyment of the record. 2 years ago I found a vinyl version of the album, and it actually made it one of-if not my top-favorite album of theirs. Lo-fi does not mean muted!
And Pavement purposely meant to be "rag-tag", and the reissue makes the album sound just fine to me. Kid A--uhhh deep bass on idioteque? That would change the whole song, no? At War with the Mystics I think i agree with though...
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Since I'm listening to a song from the album I'll include it now: New Pornographers' Twin Cinema. Was it really inteded to sound like an AM radio broadcast of a performance in a tin can?
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My pick (sorta a cop-out) is the Velvet Underground's (indie-ish?) self-titled 2nd record--but only on CD! Any CD or MP3 version you can find sounds so muddled and crapped out that it actually hinders the enjoyment of the record. 2 years ago I found a vinyl version of the album, and it actually made it one of-if not my top-favorite album of theirs. Lo-fi does not mean muted!
And Pavement purposely meant to be "rag-tag", and the reissue makes the album sound just fine to me. Kid A--uhhh deep bass on idioteque? That would change the whole song, no? At War with the Mystics I think i agree with though...
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My pick (sorta a cop-out) is the Velvet Underground's (indie-ish?) self-titled 2nd record--but only on CD! Any CD or MP3 version you can find sounds so muddled and crapped out that it actually hinders the enjoyment of the record. 2 years ago I found a vinyl version of the album, and it actually made it one of-if not my top-favorite album of theirs. Lo-fi does not mean muted!
And Pavement purposely meant to be "rag-tag", and the reissue makes the album sound just fine to me. Kid A--uhhh deep bass on idioteque? That would change the whole song, no? At War with the Mystics I think i agree with though...
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Leonard Cohen -- Songs from a room
At least on the cd version, there is little (if any dynamic range, a muddy sound quality.
Plus the damn jew's harp.
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I'm sure if you guys were in the studio when these were recorded, the records would sound amazing.
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I would agree with the Kid A thing. I love that album to death, but it (as well as Amnesiac to a lesser extent) have this constant low drone that just muddies up every song. It makes all the other parts sound shitty and muffled. I don't understand how no one noticed it.
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Fuck, every album released since '97 sounds like shit because they've all had the life compressed right out of them and been engineered for iPod headphones and treble-y computer speakers. Isn't the new technology just so great? Er, no, acutally...
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'Silent Alarm' is simply one of the BETTER rock/indie albums in terms of production in the last 10 years.
Production is now an integrated aspect of song writing & dynamics... a track like "Banquet" was improved upon from the original EP version. The drums punch you in the fucking face. It's how that song SHOULD sound.
This is a hilarious topic.
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Neve?! I assume you mean Neve pre's. There's no fucking way to tell what kind of preamps they used unless you were there in the studio looking right at them. The whole point of preamps is that you don't even notice them. As long as they're not noisy or hell even just passable, it doesn't matter the brand. You can make a great sounding record with shitty pre's just like you can make a shitty sounding record with awesome pre's which is exactly what Bloc Party did. It's all about what you do with what you have.
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"How about every made-on-the-cheap-with-Pro Tools album since the start of the home recording era?"
- I partially agree with you, but what about Dungen? That guy made some really fucking great sounding records at home on like Cubase or something even shittier than Protools.
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"How about every made-on-the-cheap-with-Pro Tools album since the start of the home recording era?"
- I partially agree with you, but what about Dungen? That guy made some really fucking great sounding records at home on like Cubase or something even shittier than Protools.
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Foo Fighters - One by One has to be the worst sounding record since 2000
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Why's the Cocteau's on this list, first it came out in 1990 and secondly it's Trevor Horn's favourite album. If anyone knows about sonics it's him.
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What a completely subjective and worthless list.
A new low for music journalism.
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Sugar. All their albums had far too much treble and nowhere near enough bass.
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This list is worthless...
How about Metallica-...And Justice For All?
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