Stereogum's Sneak Peek At Zune
Let the games begin. Today at 12 EST (right now), just two days after Apple's big press show, Microsoft lifts the veil on all things Zune. The Microsofties invited Stereogum (along with all your other favorite MP3 bloggers and old-school media) to Seattle to meet with Zune's lead marketers and developers, to play with one for a few minutes, and to be among the first to report. How could we resist? We love air travel!
So without further delay, a look at the first sanctioned image of Microsoft's new baby.
Looks sorta like an iPod, doesn't it? Well, there are some design differences (longer body, larger, vertically oriented screen, a direction pad in place of the patented click wheel) and some distinct hardware features (wireless!), but here's the real issue: How curious were you to see the thing? It's all about the look of the device and what it can do, right?
That's where Microsoft's challenge lies. Zune provides a few improvements over iPod but, as much as Microsoft acknowledges the inevitability of a device-based dialogue, its aspirations lay far beyond the unit itself; with Zune, the company wants to redefine the market for purchased music, going from the "closed" system of Apple to an open community -- an "army of promoters" –- changing the way music is discovered (via wireless-device sharing of songs and playlists) and purchased (via Zune's subscription service).
Before I elaborate on the Zune concept, the marketing strategy and, of course, a detailed report on the device itself, here's a quick breakdown:
SALIENT FEATURES (OR HOW ZUNE OUT-SPECS IPOD)
- 3" Color Screen (compared to 2.5" for iPod) with shifting orientation for music (vertical) and picture (horizontal) playback.
- Wi-Fi Wireless Technology, allowing Zune devices in the same room (distance specs TBA) to beam songs between units (a pillar of their "community" concept), to be used for the lesser of three days or three plays. Zunes can also beam pictures, but there is no Digital Rights Management (DRM) associated with picture files (i.e. yours to keep forever).
- FM Radio reception
- Personalization of screen and wallpaper with user-provided images and pictures.
- Dearth of options. True, it's the first generation, but having only one model ready for launch, while Apple diversifies to ever-increasing, niche options on every level (from the thumb-sized Shuffle, to the 8 GB Nano Mini [or as we like to say, "Ninny"], to the 80GB for just $350) is not gonna be pretty.
- Limited use of best feature. Zune brings the advance of community sharing, allowing devices to wirelessly share songs. But this won't mean much when you're the only early-adopter in the room.
- Weight. From my crude assessment, the 30GB Zune was roughly the same weight as my 60GB iPod (while wearing its hard plastic cover!).
- Loss of iTunes-purchased music. Microsoft has no plans to provide for the conversion of protected/DRM iTunes songs.
- No compatibility with Macs. Obvs.
"We will not look like iPod, nor smell, nor feel."
This came from the mouth of Chris Stephenson, the Director of Marketing for the Zune project and the owner of four iPods. I sat armed with the most obvious question to ask of someone entering the portable MP3 player (PMP) market: To compete with iPod, you must have identified some weaknesses in its design and function; what are those weaknesses and how did you exploit them with Zune?
The subsequent lecture preempted my inquiry.
"Our goal is to come into the market to create a brand or product in Stage One that competes on the current terms of digital music," Chris offered. "That is, to have a great device. But that's only a small part of the vision. We're much more about connected entertainment."The gamble is huge. Microsoft is attempting to transform the market place, to convince users that their approach of sharing and community is the future. It's a paradigm shift, at a time when the sexiness of iPod couldn't be greater.
But the Zune device does offer improvements on the iPod model and, according to Microsoft's numbers, the available market is surprisingly large. Stephenson cited that there are 50 million iPods in 32 million households (meaning there are many multi-unit homes). 20% of iPod users are deeply invested (with the full ecosystem of products, sizes, etc), but the remaining 80% are at a low level of investment; they use PCs, their iPods were gifts, they own an average of 24 AAC files (iTunes-purchased songs).
"Apple as a brand is very strong with media and artists, but the market is much bigger; it's hundreds of millions, where now only 32 million homes have them. That's only a small portion in the game, a tiny portion in the digital download space. While there is growth in digital music, there's only a small investment so far. There's a huge market opportunity. 95% of the OS base is still Microsoft, so it's quite robust."Microsoft's initial goal is modest; to be a strong #2, and slowly grow a Zune community to implement their new vision of music discovery and consumption, and their vision of the PMP less as a "device" and more as a "tuner."
Chris draws an analogy to Hotmail.
"If you have an account, you're not thinking that you need a computer for your hotmail account, you're thinking that you need a tuner to get your mail. Hotmail is about information and use, and my music is about my entertainment, not about iPod and iTunes."Fortunately for Microsoft, they have a working, successful model for connected entertainment; Xbox Live pulled off a similar marketplace transformation recently. We're no gamers (too busy with our MP3s), but here's the gist of what went down when Xbox came on the scene: Sony's PlayStation was dominant and the kids were content. Microsoft's solution was to give 'em what they didn’t know they were missing: a connected-gaming community, replete with online identities (or "tags"). This community thinking revolutionized gaming and, in time, PlayStation was forced to accommodate this new landscape with similar, competitive services.
Just as the first generation Xboxes were built with the hardware necessary to accommodate future advances and enhancements in service, Zune rolls out with the tech specs and updatable firmware to make it all happen. And the plan for Zune is similar. As soon as users access the Zune Marketplace, Microsoft will give them the opportunity to create tags, or identities, and ultimately be able to view friends' playlists and libraries in order to suggest and share songs with ease.
DEVICE DESCRIPTION
Zune's first generation is launching with one size option (30GB) in three colors (white, black, brown ... the first brown MP3 player?), each in a dulled plastic with translucent coating. The color screen measures 3" diagonally, and shifts orientation depending on whether you're listening to music (vertical) or looking at pictures and watching videos (horizontal). The device's weight is well distributed for each orientation, with a subtle, rear concavity to provide a natural finger-pivot point. The front has one four-way direction button (not a click wheel) and two other functional buttons. (The first thing I did when I got my paws on one was to rub the directional pad like it was a click wheel. Silly muscle memory.)
Zune's menu navigation is based on the standard hierarchical method that iPod utilizes; their tweak is called TWIST. The device strings the previous menu horizontally across the screen top, keeping everything one click closer (to avoid repeatedly pressing "back" or "menu" to get home). For example, once you've selected "Playlists" from the home menu, your playlist titles are listed across the top of the screen, while the contents of the highlighted playlist appear in the vertical space below. Having a larger screen – and having it oriented vertically – provides more real estate for lists and information, which makes for less scrolling.
The four-way directional button (center-situated circular button below screen) makes moving through menus and songs easy; press up or down to scroll. And if you hold the button down to speed through your song library, Zune displays a large image of the current letter for ease and speed of identification. And the UI has a cosmetic sheen that iPod has yet to approximate; screens fade in and out as you transition between menu levels. Quite smooth.
Walking through the Zune device will be a breeze to anyone who's had some experience with an iPod. I played a song (which sounded great, but it was "Saególpur" by Sigur Rós, and that shit would sound live on an 8-track), "flagged" it (as distinct from rating it on a five-star scale, which Zune also offers), looked through photos (which oriented themselves horizontally as I opened them), set one as my personal background, and adjusted the song's volume -- all without needing any hand holding.
WI-FI WIRELESS
Easily Zune's most distinguishing feature, each unit comes with Wi-Fi wireless sending and receiving capability. Gotta admit, this is pretty hot. With wireless, users can beam songs (or full playlists), album art and pictures to any Zune in the same room (specs TBA). The DRM associated with each music file (regardless of how initially obtained) allows the receiving Zune to enjoy the track for the lesser of three days or three plays. Pictures and album art have no digital rights management associated with them.
Microsoft is hoping to create (and corporately co-opt) the burgeoning network of music sharers and promoters the blogosphere represents; Zune's wireless capability is the first step.
"We think of Zune as a link to the world, where Apple sees it as closed," says Chris. "With all due respect, Apple is a very controlled brand. They don't really have any direct interaction with the consumer or artists. We're into Web 2.0. The YouTubes, the MySpaces, the user generated content, the creators. We want to facilitate that."They're hoping you'll grab a track from a friend, enjoy it, flag it (another simple-but-useful function), and buy it from Zune Marketplace when you next synch up. And all of this leads to their hope that you'll jump on board with their subscription plan.
ALL YOU CAN EAT
"Over time, people will learn to love subscription," Stephenson said confidently. "People haven't got it just yet, 'cause the brands haven't been able to build their brand strong enough. Subscription is a dirty word to some people. Think of it as flat rate programming. Like TiVO," he said, pausing for effect. "People don't mind that 'cause they think they're getting value. Flat rate plans allow people to discover new music at no additional cost."
That is, no cost in addition to the flat fee you pay per-month to have unlimited access to Zune Marketplace-affiliated labels' rosters.
"KCRW and KEXP are good 'cause they surprise me with their programming," he said. "Wireless sharing and subscription plans is just bringing that to life. It's the community aspect."The Zune Marketplace (i.e. the store and software) is similar to iTunes, with the primary differences being cosmetic (color scheme), organization (three primary information columns, as opposed to iTunes' two), and the Journal feature, designed to manage and track your Zune device's wireless activity. From the Journal page, users will have a list of the songs that have beamed or flagged, allowing for download from the Marketplace within the same screen. Assuming you're one that buys music, naturally.
And the Microsofties are self-aware; having seen (and acknowledged the hilarity of) the YouTube spoof of Microsoft's packaging of iPod, Zune comes in a simple and elegant box; still not as sexy as iPod, but a far cry from that video's hyperbole. Maybe they're learning.
ARTIST RELATIONSHIPS
Moving forward, Microsoft is intent is to portray itself as a music-first company. Richard Winn, the Director of Artist Development for Zune, sketched out the vision.
"There are a core group of major artists that sell a lot of music. We want to be in that, great opportunities with major labels and retailers, all very important. The other part is to be what we are – a real and authentic, connected music company – we need to be involved with up and coming artists, that mean something to people like Stereogum readers."Microsoft will cater to top-selling artists, of course, but they also want to be involved with emerging indie talent -- and do so without compromising their integrity. This means collaborating with artists like CSS or Band of Horses (and non-Sub Pop bands, too) and doing everything from providing exposure via track preloads in Zune, to promoting the artist on Zune Marketplace or Xbox, to providing road managerial and IT services (managing MySpace pages, answering fan mail, etc). In exchange, Microsoft hopes to get exclusive content (like concert audio and pictures) and, ultimately, to take some "cool" from Apple.
PARTING THOUGHTS
"You gotta come up with a thin and gorgeous 100GB Zune, 'cause that's what we music geeks want," I told Stephenson as we were wrapping up.
"That's what I want too, baby," he smiled. "You should sit in our product development meetings. That's what we all want."
We shared a laugh, but this jocular exchange highlighted Microsoft's main issue: for now, developers and consumers alike are united in their desire for the coolest gadget. Community is a great concept, but people gotta have the device in order to enable a community of users. That begins with making a dent in Apple's device dominance. And that's a tall order.
Apple is a runaway success; even those around Zune HQ acknowledge iPod's emergence as a watershed moment in PMPs, as Pong was to video gaming. What Microsoft hopes is that, as with Pong, that advance was only the beginning. The challenges for both brands are clearly drawn: Apple must retain the rogue spirit, fighting like the underdog it was when it launched its foray into the PMP market and continue to innovate, while Microsoft has to convince users that the game has changed, and theirs is the only device that can play it.
Microsoft has introduced features to which Apple must, and will, respond. Wirelessly transferring tracks – be it device to device, device to computer, or device to music store – is a logical evolutionary step. Making personal pictures into wallpaper? Sure, why not, that too. But realistically, Zune has a few-months window within which to advance the possibilities their new technology offers; with aggressive marketing and smart management, there is hope for Zune to grow into the profitable, user-friendly community Microsoft envisions. But, as it stands, Apple has the image, the loyalty, and the market share.
Zune is long on ideas, but may be short on time.
Again, I wasn't the only MP3 blogger out there to play. Check Coolfer, My Old Kentucky Blog, Scenestars, Music For Robots, 3Hive, and Tiny Mix Tapes for more perspectives and coverage.
What do you guys think? Is the 3" color screen, the radio, and the wireless capability enough to get you to give up your iPods? Do you think the Connected Entertainment Model will work? Will time run out? Does it blow your mind to think of Microsoft as an underdog?
Scott and I are soon departing to Austin for ACL (they still let you bring MP3 players on planes, right?) but, if you have any questions, feel free to fire 'em off in the comments. I'll do my best to answer them (or get the info for you).
UPDATE: Zune in action:
Posted at 12:00 PM
Some of the rhetoric from Microsoft sounds silly but you know...build a better mousetrap and maybe I'm in. Personally I don't give a shit about beaming stuff from someone else's mp3 player that I can listen to three times and I just don't watch stuff on the iPod - I'm there for the tunes and that's it. Of course, I realize I'm probably in the minority on that stuff but just sayin'... Now, the subscription idea isn't bad if there is a good library available. It's working great for me on eMusic to be able to pay $20 bucks and try out alot of new artists that I read about on blogs and whatnot (or in some cases, old stuff by artists that I'm not familiar with that I read about on music blogs, etc etc) so I like that idea.
Bottom line is that I'm getting older (35) and probably crankier and less understanding of technology (and I didn't have that far to go) but I love carrying around tons of my music on my iPod. If Microsoft's product seems worthwhile and I can somehow figure out how to transfer my library back into something compatible with their product (and I'm sure one of you young hipsters will be able to figure out some easy way to do that!) then what the heck...maybe I'll give it a shot.
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Hotmail is an interesting analogy because it backfires on Microsoft. Hotmail is hemorrhaging people to the better organized, cheaper sources like gmail! I like the way this looks better than I thought, but who would have ever thought that Apple would have the cheaper product. And I bet Apple is hard at work at a wireless device.
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Forgot to mention if MicroSoft can make their product more reliable (fat chance, right?) then that would be HUGE. The iPod has been a bit problematic for me at times...
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I think it sounds really good. I never bought into the whole iPod thing though, or personal mp3 players in general. I don't like the quality when it goes straight into my ears. Through speakers mp3s don't come across so bad as they're (in my case) being projected by cheap monitors, but when you have them playing next to your eardrum you need something with quality. You notice all the quality drops and realise how much better SACDs and vinyl are.
If the Microsoft store will have downloads that are in flac quality then there's a reason to buy.
They do sound like they've tought about it a lot though. I like the idea of the bluetooth style sharing, I actually like the look of the brown mp3 player, but can you please explain the wheel they've used. It looks as though it's the same as the iPods but you made it sound like its just four buttons around a wheel (^, >, v, < kind of idea - in my opinion much more useable).
When they bring out a 100Gb version for £230 or so then I'll be willing to buy, but if anything I'm still a fan of the iRiver over all the others.
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Will music purchased from the Zune store be mp3 or some proprietary file type? Nothwithstanding the DRM limitation on music acquired through wireless sharing, will music purchased from the Zune store have DRM that limits the original purchaser's use?
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What a shocker. The Zune is WHITE! It's also dorky.
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I really have to say that Apple is bumming me out.
I have spent a good chunk of money on the products and though I do love so much about them they at the same time are poorly made(or so has been my experience).They could really stand to boost customer service.
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you accepted a free plane ride? nice journalistic integrity
(i'd have done the same thing but you know real news people dont)
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can anyone say dell dj? the zune sounds like the same crappy product in a newer, wireless box. F-.
off the topic, the new shuffle? great? yes?
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Oddly enough, I know quite a few people who are tiring of iPod (though, I admit, it may just be my group of friends).
The LEAST the Zune can do is open up the marketplace so that other MP3 players can have a chance at competing against the iPod, too.
Because, with muscle like Microsoft behind it (instead of the comparitively small biceps of Samsung and Creative), people may start to realize that iPod is NOT synonomous with portable music device after all.
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I'm waiting for the FedEx guy to drop off my new 8GB Nano. Sorry Microsoft. Oh and that 100GB Zune? How about an 80GB iPod that's avaliable TODAY?
Day late/dollar and 50GB short.
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$300 for a Zune, and $250 for a Wii. Both higher than I expected. No digg.
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Brown is definitely NOT cool. And a word to those MS dorks who think that I as a consumer don't get subscriptions. I completely understand what the subscription based model is for online music services and here's a lesson for you that you don't seem to understand, I DON"T RENT MUSIC!!!
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what the fuck is this post?? when did stereogum become so....sponsored?
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According to The Digital Music Weblog, Zune means something "naughty" in Hebrew.
(http://digitalmusic.weblogsinc.com/2006/09/06/microsoft-wants-to-zune-you/)
Funny huh?
Yeah. Not really thinking this thing is gonna be a threat.
Next.
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This looks good so far, but I am really curious to see how it will fair in the marketplace. I plan on eventually upgrading my iPod, though I'll need something with more storage space than 30GB.
However, I am very interested in the streaming technology, and I hope that this idea spreads. There have been many train and plane rides where I'm sitting next to someone else with an iPod, and we end up sharing headphones as we introduce eachother to new music. If one could play that music a few times, and keep the name of the artist and song on the device, I think it would be greatly beneficial to the developing artist community. It could increase exposure of artists who have a stong, yet small following.
Whether or not the Zune garners enough of the market share to create this kind of community, at least the idea is now floating out there for someone else to capitalize on.
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Ah well, it'll be of no use to me, or you, scott lol being mac users and all. I wish all these companies would make things Mac compatible, it's not apple preventing people, because the thing they need most is for their computer-user base to grow, so cross-compatibility is desirable. If microsoft did make it mac compatible, and i daresay there'll be hacks for it in the future, I'd give it a long hard look.
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With Zune, will you need to pay for the WiFi service or will it just come ready to go?
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Also, will you be able to share videos? And if so, do they expire?
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Wow! such a great ad! Stereogum has lost it
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Why was there NO mention of battery life????
WiFi is unnecesary, and will use up battery life like mad.
Wallpaper on this thing. Really not necessary again.
Too little to late. Too ugly. Too Microsoft. They should stick to spreadsheets.
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BOO.
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Idolator launched today. They already mentioned you in their Zune article.
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Hotmail is a great analogy!! My hotmail account has been hugely useful as my free giveaway garbage mail address for 6 years now. Most useful of them. I think I regard the Zune in the same way.
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You better turn off the wifi radio on the plane. The last thing we need is a bunch of jets falling out of the sky because you want to share your cool indie music with the hot 16 year two rows up.
This article is missing the most important detail. What color are the earbuds?
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I don't like the way Microsoft tries to co-opt every market it enters. Java, anyone? I despise them for splintering the market with exclusionary tactics. They're doing it again here by excluding Macs *and* its former Plays For Sure partners.
I won't rent music. Ever. Movies, yes, but music is much too personal a choice and I want the ability to retain it forver, even after I decide that the Zune Marketplace subscription doesn't work for me. So if all I can do is listen via subscription, then they've excluded me before they even start.
I could give a shit about wireless social connections. I'm 40-something and have well-developed musical tastes. I won't be sharing music in a roomful of Zunies anytime soon.
And aesthetically? Puh-lease. Put it in a paper bag, light it on fire, put it on some old lady's doorstep. It's the blockiest, ugliest thing I've ever seen.
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T he wirelesss/sharing thing is cool. But I dont trust Microsoft on DRM and not being compatible with Macs is idiotic. PS Bitter:Sweet, the band pictured in the label on the Zune are terrific and you can check out a live performance on KCRW's Morning Becomes Eclectic at the KCRW website
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Great questions. Here are a few I can answer off the cuff.
Files purchased on Zune Marketplace will be MP3s, and they will have DRM limitations.
Wi-Fi comes standard, and there's no additional charge to use this service in its present capacity (i.e. beaming songs to and from other Zunes).
For now, wireless inter-Zune file sharing is limited to songs (or playlists) and pictures. No word on video transfers just yet.
There aren't any official specs on battery life; I had someone unofficially quote 12 hours to me, but that has to be an exaggeration. Right? Wi-Fi is bound to be a battery killer. You'll be able to turn that off. I'm thinking non-Wi-Fi life will be in line with iPods.
(Speaking of, anyone with a new one care to share pros/cons?)
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I like the brown. I don't know why, and I would never get it (no Mac compatability anyway), but I like it. I think it's different, plus I'd probably just use a case for it anyway.
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Iiiiinteresting. Can't wait to see what the next iPods will be able to do, heh.
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Amrit, nice write up. Although I'm still amazed I saw the word "paradigm" on Steregum.
Anyhooters, I'm wondering: Ok, so Zune won't play iTunes' DRM-protected content. Fine. But what about regular old non-DRMed MP4/AAC files? I rip (or download from the russian site) all my music in that format in iTunes. Will Zune be able to play that format? Frankly, I think WMA and MP3 both sound like poop, and, like everyone else, think subscription is a deeply stupid idea. But if I can't play music in my choice of non-DRMed formats, this thing's a non-starter for me.
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this will fail on not having mac support alone.
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brown, it might as well be beige. oh well. I love when microsoft trots out marketing people who put the cart before the horse, and claim revolution without moving one unit. hilarious.
also, I am not so much interested in community in this manner. I open up my playlist to people in itunes, and I look at other people's libraries of music, and I just think, this guy likes the killers AND the doobies? wtf?
whatever. no thanks, my 2nd generation 10g ipod still works. still.
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the wi-fi wounds promising, but the incompatibility with macs is a TOTAL deal breaker for me.
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its like they didnt even try.
seriously, I'm not an Apple freak, but this is pathetic.
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I like that Hot Chip's "Over and Over" video is the featured image on the horizontal one.
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Interesting review. I really am not seeing the picture that Microsoft has a solid competitor here, but perhaps I'm underestimating them. I gotta say, those players are just ugly. Maybe that will appeal to a large group of rebellious people that don't want the "popular" or "cool" looking players. Me? I just think it looks ugly, and given everything else equal, I don't like ugly.
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this things gunna be DOA
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One thing I heard is that because Microsoft partnered with Toshiba to build Gen One, they had to build it on the Toshiba Gigabeat body and that they are building Gen Two themselves...in which I would expect to see much bigger leaps. That info however would cause me to wait until Gen Two.
Amrit, they quoted me estimates are at 12 hours, but didn't specify how much wi-fi affected that.
Anyway, this is news and you shouldn't trash Stereogum for reporting it. You would have done the same.
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No Mac support? Way to shoot yourself in the, well. In the toe, at least.
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an mp3 player w/ a radio.....it's about F*#king time.
there you go, microsoft wins.
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ok so microsoft flies you out to seattle, and because of this you're forced to make a post about it. AND THEN you're forced to keep it as the top post for the entire day?
WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT MAN? SERIOUSLY?
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Pretty much agree with all comments about Zune being meh. Also, XBox tried to take Playstation's thunder but it still hasn't, in fact, it loses money for every unit it sells. And out of all the shades of brown in the world, why would you pick a shade of poop? One more thing... anything that starts with the letter "Z" is doomed to suck. Like Zwan. Meh.
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God, I hate MP3 players.
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nick, they are on a plane on their way to austin you knucklehead. read the post.
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That was an excellently written review. Thank you.
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You whore. I expected better of Stereogum.
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I'm not incredibly impressed with this. Why WiFi? What's the point? It just seems superfluous. To me, it's like when Apple came out with that video iPod. I prefer the iPod as originally conceived - a straightforward mp3 player. Why do I need to watch tv shows on a 2.5" screen?
Also, I think Mac will win this hands-down given their willingness to create software and hardware that is compatible with other systems.
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The radio thing would be mad cooler were there anything on radio to want to hear.
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I seriously doubt the lack of mac support will cause a significant dent in Zune's marketability. Considering that 95% of the world runs Windows, WM-DRM is more secure and flexible than Fairplay, and that the Toshiba Gigabeat being a pretty freakin' good device to base a new player on, I'd say Zune's got a few significant things going for it.
iPod still has style. No one is commanding you to abandon it. Go ahead and keep using it. The rest of us just got another choice.
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thanks tom,
now go back to myspace.
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Mention a viable competitor to iPod and it's like you're talking about another God to a fundy. Even if you love the iPod, you gotta like the Zune coming out if for no other reason that it makes Apple actually innovate and probably get the price down as well.
Competition is good for us, people.
Great review, btw...
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Just to start off I wanted to say that i'm 19 so if you guys take my comments as childish thats fine I don't mind but just wanted to add my input.
Firstly I wanted to point out how not just negative but aggressivly negative people have to be when they reply about their impression of zune. I can tell you as an ipod user (about to be and ex) I hate the thing for so many reasons why i'm getting a zune upon release. Ipod's itunes really puts me off putting music on my playes and composing a playlist, I bought an ipod for my partner and the thing scratched even though it was kept in the case the whole time same as mines. I could go on.
The way people are tooting apples horn is almost as if their product is so well thought out and consumer friendly and can do no wrong. I for one am glad microsoft is doing this it's nice to break away fromm doing what everyone else is and do your own thing. As for the brown being ''tard'' I like it and think it looks great. And to the 40 yr old it really is depressing for someone of your age to be so analytical about a product that's trying to give option to people whats so wrong with that? and your analogy is so repugnantly childish. All in all i'm excited about it and am selling my ipod anyway and will get one when it's released here in the uk.
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I don't think people are tiring of the ipod I think the entire MP3 market is slowing... Music is so yesterday, everything out there games, video, nascar, flights to the moon... So, yesterday. I want something that excites the soul. I think this DAP is way to late, even the ipod today is to late to the party. But then again I bought my ipod nearly 5 years ago.
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____
At $199, yeah. At $300, no thanks.
btw, I've gone through 2 iPod HDDs. I'm done with Apple.
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"But Hanz...are we the bad guys?"
just fuck Microsoft, okay.
Fuck them and their history, and discount anything they're offering you now, snow white.
yeah, Apple's a corporation too, but quite frankly my ipod is now 3 years old and works fine. i bought it for functionality, nowt else.
and when it wears out, i'll go back to my portable record playing hat (with built in fan, beer holder and straws)
As Jarvis sang recently; "the cunts are still running the world". Don't let them run Stereogum too.
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ONE OF THE LAST 54 COMMENTS IS FROM THE MICROSOFT EMPLOYEE THAT PAID STEREOGUM TO FLY OUT TO VIEW THEIR EMPEROR'S NEW CLOTHING RANGE!
BEWARE, KIDS, THIS SHIZZLE IS INFILTRATED!
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"Files purchased on Zune Marketplace will be MP3s, and they will have DRM limitations."
Amrit, are you sure about that? MP3, as a format, does not support DRM. I'm betting that Microsoft will use WMA files in its Marketplace.
According to MS documentation, "Zune software can import audio files in unprotected WMA, MP3, AAC; photos in JPEG; and videos in WMV, MPEG-4, H.264" but I doubt they'll be selling anything in the MP3 format. More likely, the marketing dipshits think that every sound file is an "MP3."
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"That's what I want too, baby," he smiled. "You should sit in our product development meetings. That's what we all want."
Who the fuck is this guy, Shooter McGavin?
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I hope they fail miserably with the Zune. I don't think it will touch Apple's marketshare in a significant way. The only reason I like the fact of MS and the Zune, is it will undoubtedly speed up innovation for Apple.
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as far as the paid vacation to go out there...
I left on Thursday at 7am, spent 6 hours on planes. Got to Seattle, was given the demo presentation and was back on a plane Friday morning at 7am, spending another 6 hours on planes to get home. Hardly a vacation.
Yeah Microsoft paid for the flight and the hotel, but they didn't give us a Zune. I have a 4 GB Nano, a Dell DJ (given as a gift), and no brand loyalty. I wanted to see if this thing was worth a damn, so I went out to there to see... Anyway it's news, especially in Stereogum's and my site's genre, that's why we all went and that's why three (Coolfer too) of us reported on it and that's also why you're talking about it.
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I will not buy this because it is only 30GB. Subscription based doesn't help at all. I seriously want a someone who will compete with Apple in digital media distrobution because right now they're running a monopoly even MS won't stop if they seriously think their target audience will swallow all the "subscription and limited listens" scheme.
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Wow, accepting free travel & perks from the devil. You've sunken to a new low...Goodbye Sterogum
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The only reason I would hope for Zune's failure is fear: fear that Microsoft isn't nearly as interested in what I want as Apple is. Whoever said WMA's DRM is more flexible than Apples - Ha!! Whatever!! What I'd really like to see is no DRM - but there's no way Microsoft would ever fight for that. They're "business" and "industry". Yeah, Apple's a Corp and interested in their own profits, but they're not fighting for DRM, they're fighting to make sure DRM doesn't interfere with me. That's what I'm interested in.
That said, I do have to say it looks like Allard has the right ideas, and does care about us and what we want. That doesn't mean Microsoft has turned the corner it needs to turn, though.
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First off, I am a converted apple/ipod user. Second off, listen to yourself.. do you have any idea about business or basic economics? Why are you so protective of Apple? It's as though you work for them or at least have some kind of emotional bond. With the introduction of Zune comes new techonology in a portable media player... how is that bad? If anything the success of it would be good for the consumer, especially with Apple products. It could force them to speed up innovation, add new features (or open up others) and at the least drive down prices on their seeming monopoly of ipod prices. Apple is a corporation, microsoft is a corporation. While I am a consumer working for neither... I want the best tech available at the lowest price. Think as a consumer, because Apples brand management and marketing is at a scary level of saturation... you no longer care what they charge, provide or restrict. Why is the EU up in arms about itunes restrictions, but here we're content to pump money into an ambigrous rental of music? Be for product design, innovation and progress but don't be blind to your consumer rights.
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Why are people so hostile to the music subscription model? I seriously don't get it.
People will pay $15 a month for an XM Satellite subscription. They don't own the music that gets played.
People will buy songs on iTunes for 99 cents a pop. If you think you "own" those tunes you are high. You "own" them as long as you only want to play them back on hardware purchased from Apple and/or do whatever other limited things Apple decides to let you do with them.
What about this example. Lets say I buy one CD per month and I will always buy one CD per month for the rest of my life. It costs around $15 per month.
For that same $15 month I can subscribe to Rhapsody or Napster or Zune (or whatever) and I can take every single album in their library and load it onto my MP3 player. I can listen to every single new album released (ok, limited to the library, but they're pretty inclusive now).
The only objection I hear to this is "but if you don't pay, you lose the music." so what. Why would I quit paying? I already know that I always spend at least $15/month on music anyway so why stop?
And it's not like I dont' buy CDs anyway. I use the subscription service to check out music much more conveniently and much more broadly than I would without the subscripton. If I really like something, I buy it on CD and rip it myself. You get much better quality and there's no DRM.
Makes a world of sense to me. I really don't get why people oppose it.
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It's funny that people are so concerned about Mac support. Does anyone remember how much Windows love the iPod got when it first came out? You try something out in your own backyard before you venture forward.
Those that think sterogum sold out are just silly. Just because Microsoft footed the travel bill doesn't mean bloggers are going to fall in love with their product. Maybe in the 80's that's how it was but these days when you fly bloggers into an event they are going to be *more* skeptical if anything.
I think the Zune has a chance. There are quite a few people that own iPods simply because they don't know that there are other DAP out there or that's the only one they've heard of. Hell, some people actually think Apple invented the DAP!
There are so many ways to utilize the wireless bit that it's staggering. What if you could put your Zune into auto-accept mode and walk around campus or the Warp Tour or whatever and come home to a stream of new music. What about when they open up the DRM a bit so if you hit up a show with your Zune you'll get an unreleased track that *isn't* limited? Heck, getting really funky you could set up a musical treasure hunt, hitting certian locations nets you new songs that have clues to the next location, etc. If Microsoft plays this right you could end up with something pretty viral and fun.
Of course other people have also nailed the fact that it can't just be a better/different player, it somehow has to become "cool". There are a ton of great DAPs out there but iPod has captured the teens need to have the "it" gadget. Of course Apple's success may undermine it because how mundane is an iPod now? Oh, you have 3 iPods? Yippy, I have a pile of them.
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I dunno, Microsoft's got Hot Chip. And apparently, PC's are a lot like John Hodgman. I think that's cool.
In other words, I'm an ironic dick and I have no preference either way.
And honestly, do you all visit Stereogum because it's a shining beacon of anti-corporate integrity? No. You come here to listen to cool new bands and bash Pitchfork. So this blog has lost total credibility because they took a free plane flight to cover something that its readers care about. Isn't that what journalists do? If they'd accepted an invitation Apple, no one would say anything. Go to hell.
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invitation *from* Apple
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Devin, either you didn't read my comment very carefully (likely), or I didn't express myself clearly enough (also likely). I was responding to nick's rather silly wish that Zune fail - with the only reason I could see making that statement. That's because, as a consumer I am interested in competition THAT RESULTS IN A BETTER AND CHEAPER PRODUCT FOR ME. So on the surface, wishing for Zune's failure is silly unless Zune doesn't portend the type of competition that will improve my experience.
I then explained why that might be the case - basically that Microsoft has only shown one case where they really care about improving the consumer's experience (XBox 360, which continues to lose money). So let's think about one key word from Allard in the interview (again, remember I like and respect what I know about this guy): "embrace". He lets it slip out. Of course, it's not like we didn't know that would be Microsoft's approach, or like they had options in that regard. They want the market, they don't want it owned by Apple. Fair enough, so far so good for us customers.
"Embrace, extend, extinguish" - I'm sure you've heard it.
So what happens if, instead of Apple, Microsoft were to own the market? Look at IE and you'll have your answer. I think it's a crappy answer, hence the only reason I can see for wishing for Zune's failure. That, or not liking the color brown. ;)
Note I still didn't say I wish for Zune's failure: on the contrary, I'm still evaluating, not to mention I haven't held or seen one yet. But I don't think they have much of a chance so far - at least in the next year or two. After that, who knows?
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I'm moderately impressed; the screen & menus looks very nice. I'm sick of scrolling until my thumb feels like its going to fall off!
I just wish the wi-fi was something other than ad-hoc. I really don't care what the hot 16-year-old has on her iPod; it'll just be a bunch of Paris Hilton and some awful rap music. It'd be far more useful to get RSS feeds (w/MP3s!) from blogs & streaming internet radio stations.
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yup, this site has just been deleted from my bookmarks
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It seems a bit wrong that all Microsoft has to do is wine, dine, and fly you around to get some el primo coverage on Stereogum. As much as you try, you'll never be able to write an objective analysis after that.
At the same time, i am curious about Zune, i just wouldn't expect such in depth coverage over here. It is a good piece.
But the lack of mac support means i'll never get one. Plus i don't like the fact they cripple the device by disabling wirelessly transferred files after a few plays.
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i wouldn't have a problem if with the coverage but it seems like microsoft pr veiled as a post. yes microsoft flew them out because if they just emailed a press release it wouldn't have been posted. but interacting with a product, now there's an experience worth mentioning.
it's funny how this supposedly happened last thursday or friday, yet all the posts come out today in addition to the press conference. nice to see publicity can be groomed and coordinated on blogs not just in the form of blogads but now actual content too! replace the topic of zune with beirut or cold war kids and try it yourself at home!
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this is a sponsored post - as david said, a press release - on a BLOG. a BLOG, for christ's sake. you guys should be ashamed of yourself. fuck microsoft, i'll keep my rotting old ipod.
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Underwhelming. I really expected more, seeing as MS had their XBox guys on this project.
This weak product will not make a splash. MS tends to improve things incrementally, but byt he time they get to a decent 2nd or 3rd generation, they'll be out of the game.
And seriously - Hotmail!? Do they not even realize that Hotmail is a joke and everyone uses it as their spam-collector? So out of touch...
If they were in this to win, they would've had Mac (and Linux) support. But you just KNOW Ballmer wouldn't allow it. That's what'll kill them. Microsoft has too many enemies to dance around to be a true community. Redmond may not realize it, but Apple's 5% marketshare is not indicative of this market. Strip out all the office boxes and it's a lot more for this demo, and those who don't have Macs will soon, or at least want one. They blew it on that alone.
Their only hope is to lose millions and hobble along in the market long enough to figure out what people really want (read: copy Apple). That's what they did with Windows and XBox. But this time, I don't think it'll work.
P.S. I don't think the "Marketplace" sells MP3s. Please double-check. I'm sure its WMA. If not - well, that's ONE thing they did right. But no OGG!? WTF not?
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what a bunch of haters! Of course it's coordinated - they couldn't write about it before and post up pics! That's how it works with any journalists - shoot, with Apple no one gets to preview the products until Steve unveils them on stage.
Yeah, I thought the article didn't read as being objective enough, but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with Microsoft flying them out and back to get some reviews for the Zune.
Anyways, not a regular reader so I don't know what the normal flow is here, but if the regular readership is this hateful I'm glad I don't have to see the comments daily.
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'It's funny that people are so concerned about Mac support.'
Well, how else can a Mac person try the damn thing if it doesnt work with a Mac?
The criticism of Stereogum (and the other bloggers) for accepting a free trip from Microsoft is ridiculous. They reported as such (they didnt hide it) and there reporting was not only objective, but their forums are open to criticism without any censorship. I would have gone and I am a diehard Mac guy.
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umm...same as getting guest list for a show, or free cds for review. i have no problems with it. plus, seeems i have seen apple posts here before. same deal.
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BLOG FOR HIRE - Price: 1 roundtrip flight (first class?), 1 night of lodging, drinks with bloggers
Sold your blog to microsoft. WEAK. Take this post down and admit you made a mistake.
MS should've done a press tour to meet with bloggers in (or near) their hometowns. This trip was payola.
Apple announced new products on Tuesday, (products that are currently available in stores by the way), by posting this today you're playing into Microsoft's plan to compete with Apple's announcement.
Grab your cash and free trips while you still can Stereogum.
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You idiots whining and lamenting about journalistic integrity do realize that this is a fucking mp3, music and random gossip blog that focuses a considerable number of its posts on subjects like Kevin Federline, right? And you saw that they were completely up front about who paid for the trip, right? Grow the hell up, and save your lost innocence posturing for elsewhere.
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Amrit,
I think your review was awesome. Everyone here getting up in arms about the fact that you took the time to fly out to Seattle to review a product that many of us are very interested in is outrageous. I appreciate it because as an owner of a very outdated Creative Zen Jukebox, I am in the market for a new player. I haven't made up my mind yet, but Apple's press conference yesterday had me leaning toward the new 80GB iPod.
I didn't see price listed in your post. Several comments mention a $300 price tag...is that right?
Also, the most important piece of info, when does Microsoft plan to have the first gen Zune's available.
Like I said, my mind isn't made up, but I am pretty sure I'll end up with a Zune if they can release a 100GB model for a reasonable price.
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I definitely won't be a first gen adopter, but they could convert by the second. They're trying to build upon the market that Apple created, rather than just copy, which I like. If it ends up being more reliable than iPod it will definitely get my attention. In only three years of owning an iPod I'm on my 4th one (thank God for Best Buy warranties). I don't think they'll take much of the iPod marketshare, but if nothing else it pushes Apple to innovate more.
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For one, the Zune Marketplace will sell WMA files, not DRM-protected MP3 files, as there is no such thing. And anything you've bought from iTunes is a no-go (of course, unless you burn it to a CD and re-import it).
Also, realistically, it's more along the lines of 15% or so of consumers use Macs. Overall, sure, it's 5%, but you can't include the business world when evaluating this.
But most of all, gag me, Stereogum. You failed me, in reprehensible fashion. And Dodge, don't bother sticking up for ya boy. I haven't read your blog yet, but you're, evidently, just as guilty. This isn't a "review," and it's not "reporting," and it's certainly not "journalism." It's a fucking glorified PRESS RELEASE. I would actually be very interested in reading an objective review of your take on it; just link to the damn ress release elsewhere.
Ahem: MS: "We're into Web 2.0. The YouTubes, the MySpaces, the user generated content, the creators. We want to facilitate that." And that's precisely what they're doing here.
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You know what, Microsoft are always being criticised for having huge monopolies and I don't understand why Apple don't get the same flack when it comes to the iPod / iTunes. I'm glad there might be some real competition on the horizon and the wi-fi "community" concept is really attractive to me because for me music is about the best way to enjoy, share and spread the joy. It may not be cool to like MS or their products but personally I'm not automatically looking for sterotypically negative MS reviews and am gonna get over the ego associations and judge Zune on it's merit.
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I think that a lot of you who are on your fourth iPods or whatever must treat them like shit because mine is still going strong. And now that the new iterations have no moving parts? I think they are going last quite a while. I wouldn't look to Microsoft (360 anyone?) for reliability!
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Wow, when did Stereogum sell out?
And Chris: hope is not a plan.
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wISH i COULD WHORE FOR MICROSOFT
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I like the subdued colours, music is serious stuff.
Wifi support looks nice too, just think, you're at the gym (or wherever you use your MP3 player the most) and are bored of your music. Flick on the wifi and pick up a couple of dozen new tunes from your neighbours to listen to. You might even find some really great ones.
Subcription based music is also certainly the way forward for a relatively uninformed music consumer like me, Im always having trouble finding new bands to listen to and with CDs in the UK at about £10 each purchasing one isnt something Im going to do on the strength of one good song. Subscription music means I can try whatever I want.
Flaws? The screen is too big, noone really uses video on a MP3 player that much. The disk is too small, for a player that big.
They need a smaller version, with a smaller screen, 50 + Gb size disk etc. Just as others have said, however I wouldnt rule them out of the fight. The 360 marketplace and arcade shows how seriously microsoft can do things when it wants to be revolutionary. The company may have faltered in terms of innovation in the late 90s, but they are back in gear now.
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I'm not an i-pod user, and to a certain extent I feel I'm missing out on a lot by choosing a competitors product (lets face it i-pod is The MP3 player).
But... and its a BIG but... the closed access of i-tunes is farsical and a real turn off... plus is it me or do all Apple products look a little "FisherPrice"... even the I-Mac looks a little like "My First PC" ... anyone else get that?. So when I first heard about Zune, I was almost instantly sold on it (ok I'm a big Xbox fan too).
Even with all the added functionality and sharing capabilities... I have a more fundemental and basic question... How long is the battery life? For someone who commutes long distances daily, and travels a lot on business I need 24 hour battery life as a minimum. Its my gripe with my current MP3 player, and would halt any interest in the Zune, if they didn't plan on tackling this issue.
Any spec's on this?
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When I saw the headline to this post, Stereogum's Sneak Peek At Zune, I thought maybe that's what Brit named her new baby, and that Stereogum had pictures. Damn, I feel robbed.
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Well it'll flop due to that marketplace policy. Someone here commented that it does'nt make any difference, and said its similer to buying a CD every month.
When you buy a CD you own it, no matter you buy CD for a month or not, but those you have bough will remain with you and you can listen them anytime. While if you dont pay the 15$ to marketplace, you lose all you playlist. So the difference is there. You spend 15$ on CD containing 10-15 songs, on the same price you can download 15 songs from iTunes, and you own it. You buy for a month or not, the songs will be there. you dont pay for a month, and everthing gone, you have to do all over again.
And who care about that WiFi sharing, if one has still to pay for the song. Who says you are sharing songs at the first place.
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You can bluetooth tunes to your friends and then play them three times or for three days? Great! If you sit on the top deck of any London bus you will see legions of school children already busy doing that with their mobile phones and guess what no DRM. Their phones wil also no doubt have FM radio, oh, and a camera.
Based on my slightly unscientific observations on London transport I reckon its phones that offer the real competition to iPods and thus Microsoft. You rarely see other brands of PMPs but you see an ever growing number of people listening to music on their phones. Its phones not the Zune that will snag the silent majority of none iPod owners Microsoft is targeting. Phones can be had for free and for people who don't want to carry round 20 000 tunes they're perfectly good. Also, with revenue from calls likely to disappear, music subscription services are exactly the sort of thing that the phone companies will be getting into. Unlike Microsoft they will be starting from a huge ready made customer base with the hardware already in their customers hands.
Zune - for so many different reasons it seems doomed.
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hehe... and microsoft will soon be giving Zune hotfixes, beacuse its microsoft way of doing things .. :)
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FM Radio ? In the UK, the government is turning FM radio off to replace it with high quality digital radio so the FM tuner is really not going to be of much use here !
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SELLING OUT SUCKS... Microsoft??? Accepting plane rides? Then keeping it at the top story of the day??
WEAK.
WEAK.
WEAK.
WEAK.
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Wow, Microsoft is getting close to take over the music and video industry. YA RIGHT.
If it says Microsoft on the box it will be a nightmare. Get the techs readys in millions and stack up on the lawyers.
Most of all folks, enjoy your viruses when you share your music on the ZUNE. Don't worry, there will be a patch.
So when do we really get to play with the Zune? Same time as the OS.
I know Microsoft says..yata yata yata.
I'll have to see it to believe it.
d
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Not enough difference? Are you joking? That means nothing. I'd say that the difference between Zune and iPod (or any PC v. Mac comparison) is more significant than the difference between Coke and Pepsi. And how many people do you know who are loyal to one brand?
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k, so, why is this still on the front page... fucking shills.
whoring out to microsoft... sad. kind of makes you wonder how much other bullshit you guys just push on us because someone is paying you.
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I have to side with the posters who are disappointed with Scott basically putting an infomercial for the Zune on the site. Yes, he was upfront about being flown in, and the article was objective. But still, this seems like a slippery slope...makes me wonder when he raves about new bands if it's his own opinion, or done as a favour to a record company. (Remember his raves on corporate rock band Morningwood late last year???)
Idealistic? Perhaps. But you gotta stand for something. The whole reason I read Stereogum, vs. Rolling ston is to get an unbiased opinion from a true music fan.
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Does it support .ogg? No? No good for me then.
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I think this thing is pretty sweet. And being able to send pics back and forth is something kids will love. It is a little blocky but not bad considering it has wifi in it. But I am very concerned with battery life. cant be good. Overall I say Zune looks like a sweet thing but won't seriously hurt Ipod I doubt.
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Microsoft should have mailed you the Zune or should have introduced it regionally in meetings, which you could have driven to. By paying for your flight and hotel, Microsoft lost its credibility; as though it had just zipped up its pants and handed you a "lemon" Sno-Cone. Can we really trust your telling us that it tastes great? Your description doesn't sound critical in the least.
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You can't say stereogum's "whored out" to M$, but it's hardly an objective analysis. It's just the same as sending out CD promo's to music mags, except this is more like "let's lure the bloggers into our nests!". I dont exactly fancy getting BSOD's while listening to my music either... All this will do is benifit Apple and the consumer, as Apple will be forced to lower prices and improve, whilst the Zune will burn out in it's 3rd reincarnation. Mind you, I like the idea of the whole marketplace thing, but they should let you keep the music, at a limit. I'm more likely to buy a cd of a band or an artist after downloading 3-5 tracks than just word of mouth. Something most people do, and the RIAA and their circus act of suing anyone who hasn't payed to hear a song will understand. Whats next, suing people who are forced to listen to twats playing their processed shit they call "music" on their phones too loud? Gah. I'm sticking with my iPod thanks.
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Dudes, the hate? Kinda weird. You can't fault the Sterogum folks for trying to make a little money. Really. Folks gotta eat and we all "whore" ourselves out to someone or something... but it's a living.
Yes, it read like a press release and YES the MS guys DO sound like Shooter McGavin, but can we have a semi-serious conversation about this? Better Stereogum & MYKB than the clueless journalismos over at Time, Newsweek, et al.
My question? How many posts in here are MS plants? More than a few it seems... and to them I say nice try kiddies!! Did you learn nothing young Jedis?
3 days, 3 plays? Arbitrary, restricting and marketing all rolled into 1! Brown? Uh, oh ok... did you guys leave that as the last decision and make it at 4 am? Wee WiFi!!! There goes my battery! (Hey, how about someone building that better mousetrap?) Web 2.0? HA! Just like fashion folks: fluid and gone the moment big biz buys in. Built in Radio? I have better taste than radio! What do you think my iPods are? DUDE.FM mofo's! (now I do get that folks want this, but from what I can tell just for the NPR) Zune a bad word in Hebrew? HAHAHAHAHAHA... f@#king Hilarious. need I go on?
Will it "succeed"... probably a bit, but time will tell. All the problems folks have with their iPods? I promise they'll have them with the 'Zune' (saying that w/ Hebrew accent). it'll be an uphill battle & MS has a ton of cash to throw down that well so we'll see... he who hath gets kids, he who hath gets (a little chaos/complexity theory for you there)
Oh and most folks don't know how to really use their iPods to their full extent anyways...
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man, fuck those of you whining about journalistic integrity and selling out. that shit is tired. enough already.
i'd take a free trip to seattle in a heartbeat without a second thought.
plus, the zune info is totally relevant and appreciated (by me at least). even so, i'm sticking with my trusty discman for the time being.
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Blogs = advertising. Doesn't matter if it's in a 'Premium Blogad' in the top right corner, an MP3 that some hip indie label wants us to hear or a plane ride (OOOOOOO! Decadent!) to look at a product only a handful of people will really care about.
I just googled 'blog paragon journalistic integrity' and nothing came up - weird.
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Hi,
Bill Gates here, I'm glad my new iZune has everyone talking. I like a mass debate.
Personally speaking I don't really like music, but I like to beat everyone's asses at everything.
By the way, I just bought the whole internet- not just stereogum, neat huh?
It's mine, all mine!
Good day.
Bill Gates
PS: I own you.
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There is supposed to be a difference between content and advertising. That's why the blogads are listed as such. I think the point we're establishing here is perhaps everything posted here, whether a review of an MP3 player, or a band to watch, should be taken with a grain of salt, especially since the line between information and advertising is being constantly blurred here.
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ooo lookie: Stereogum quoted by the BBC!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/5348674.stm
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If you're put in a room with a "Zune" and you get to use it, you can review it. The above is not a review, it's a disguised press release, as commented. Was the author told to not even attempt a "first look" criticism? So I'll give a shot. It's ugly, too big; the subscription model is a failure for music; comparisons to MySpace, XM, etc. are all taken out of context. Sharing in iTunes is done with playlists, and it works well. No problem listening to others' music, and corporate servers are doing it every day. 3" screen won't be big vs iPod in six months; and it's too fricking big, clunky, heavy looking, competing with fifth, sixth gen. And iPods work because of iTunes and iTMS, now iTS, and a review or press release of "Zune" that doesn't bring in the other two components is just...twisted or worthless. Oh, yeah, iTunes is seventh gen. Good luck, MS. Don't waste your money.
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Thx for the info.
The problem I see with subscription services is that they easily become outdated. What if, for example, I have illegally downloaded music on my Zune 1 and can't upgrade to Zune 2 (the service) because of that? What if a technological glitch screws up my subcription? I LOSE ALL MY MUSIC.
Other features seem ok. Not crazy about the design. Agree that 3 plays over the wi-fi network is not enough.
And people: Stereogum openly admitted they took Microsoft's invitation to review the Zune before the article began. I am sure they weighed the integrity pros and cons beforehand, and tried to honestly assess the product anyway. No, I do not work for Microsoft. I'll stick with iPod until Zune 2 or later.
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What I wonder is how would it work with your PC. One of the things I like the best about my iPod is actually iTunes. It makes it easy and clutterfree for me to play my music at home. What does this system have? I have a Mac at home so I would never be able to get this anyway.
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From Boingboing.net today:
"Microsoft's "iPod-killing" Zune player won't play music that's locked up with Microsoft's own anti-copying software. Music and movies sold through Napster 2.0, Rhapsody, Yahoo! Unlimited, Movielink and Cinemanow won't play on the Zune, even though these services are marketed in conjunction with Microsoft's "Plays for Sure" (AKA Plays for Shit) program. "
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Hi,
Bill Gates here,
Just wondering what you all look like naked, seeing as I OWN YOU.
Peace out, slaves, and don't forget to pick up a Zune with your groceries tomorrow.
Bill x
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I can't say much for the Zune until I get to look at one in my hands for myself, but who on earth doesn't think brown is cool? That is the most wonderufl hue of any pmp to date. Who ever came up with that gets an A+ (and hopefully, I guess, a raise, too).
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The design is actually pretty cool considering it comes from Microshit but this mac vs. windows thing is so old. Guess what Bill, I have a Mac at home and a PC at work and I can use my ipod with both so why should I care about what u r selling?
Fer sure Apple is working on a wireless device, but I would love to see an apple pda/ipod cross someday.
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"We're into Web 2.0. The YouTubes, the MySpaces, the user generated content, the creators. We want to facilitate that."
Yeah - they're into killing them off. Is the Zune team just ignorant of what the rest of Microsoft is up to - or are they lying through their teeth?
"I think that a lot of you who are on your fourth iPods or whatever must treat them like shit because mine is still going strong. And now that the new iterations have no moving parts? I think they are going last quite a while. I wouldn't look to Microsoft (360 anyone?) for reliability!"
Amen. Five iPods here - no problems. My 3rd Gen still works perfectly.
And Microsoft...reliable? I'm so stunned I can't even laugh at that.
P.S. Brown = "Indie," dumbasses! I thought you liked "Indie." OK, well, that's what Team Zune thought.
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Furthermore.. re journalistic integrity, I can't believe anyone thinks that still exists.I don't have a problem with stereogum shilling for Microshit. At all. It's no different from Perez over at Perezhilton getting invited to all the scintillating parties he covers for our reading pleasure.
I went to journo school. How to write a story straight from a press release is one of the first things they taught us.
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Don't see myself buying one of these babies...but thanks for an intelligent, well-written, comprehensive review.
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Sad that Microsoft actually think this too little, tool late Zune will do something other than fail.
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Stereogum = ZuneLounge
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Thanks for the GOOD review (despite the haters). Mac blogs have been wishing for wifi for a while, and people mock MS for beating them to it? A little hypocritical. I like that at least one company will give me a chance to sample friends' music without having to plug in while they play it for me.
Personally, I like the appearance. It looks like an iPod with some trim, a bigger screen, and a better GUI. I agree that brown is bizzare, but the Black is pretty sweet. I'll consider upgrading to that.
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going wireless is not an option actually for Microsoft cause the next upgrade for the iPods will definitely have wireless capabilities. Problem with Microsoft's Zune is that it needs 'an iTunes like of service for the iPod'. If it can somehow integrate iTunes and actually get people to buy music through iTunes and then copy them to the Zune, then i think half the battle is won. As for movie or video downloads for that matter, Microsoft has got as much chance as Apple to succeed.
Another thing that come to my mind:
why not have the Zune ability to connect to the Web wirelessly ? It would be 'ultra cool' to listen to 'streamed radio' from such sites as Yahoo etc and listen it 'real time' on the Zune as opposed to downloading the music and then copying it to the Zune.
And one more thing:
The zune has got a nice screen. Perhaps in the future Microsoft would upgrade it to include a video input port ? Why ? Microsoft would then get someone to build a portable gaming console sans screen but with all hardware ability to play games. Think of it as a PSP or DS without screens. We would then connect the rig to the Zune via the video port to output all the graphics to the Zune and then play games on it ! That would be cool. Anyway that's my 2 cents worth of opinions.
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* 12 hour battery life is way to short
* WIFI is good only if it can connect to internet while I travel on the road
* Need document viewer
* Touch screen .....
Bottom line: PDA+100G at $250 is great
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More from boingboing on this piece of technoshit:
"The new Microsoft Zune player (their soi-dissant "iPod Killer") applies DRM to all the files you move onto it, even the Creative Commons-licened music. The problem is that CC licenses prohibit this. What's more, CC licenses are machine-readable and could, theoretically, be detected by Microsoft, if they cared enough about copyright to ensure that they were adhering to the license policies set out by creators.
There currently isn't a way to sniff out what you are sending, so we wrap it all up in DRM. We can’t tell if you are sending a song from a known band or your own home recording so we default to the safety of encoding. "
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I just cant understand why so many people are having a go at Stereogum...all they did, was bring u informaition, and you are are angry that they accepted a flight from microsoft. If you wrote one of those comments like that think to yourself, "would i accept a free flight?" its free, and its a trip. Id accept a trip like that; who cares who is paying. The journalism in this article is good; it is purely to tell people about the Zune, so how about comments relate more to 'zune' then to what you think of stereogum. if u dont like them, dont use the site, simple!
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So... am I still the only one who listens to cassettes on an original Sony Walkman? Sure, my Glass Tiger and Journey tapes are a little worn out, and there's no shuffle mode (unless you count my old Middle School mixtapes). But at least I don't have to worry about "upgrades" or "Linux support" or "Digital Rights Management". Portable tape players are TOTALLY the future.
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It's seems like people are using this as a means to vent about the current state of the blog world. Not long ago it was the bloggers pushing boundaries, saying fuck you corporations we have power in numbers with our independent voice online. Making posts purely because that's what they were interested in, or at least wanted to tell others about. Then a select few blogs attracted enough viewers to distance themself from the other also-rans. With the realistic ability to make some side money from ads on their blogs many put them up, no big deal. But now blogs are at the next step, they're so big that the owners can live off the money from revenues. It's a little dissapointing what has happened to blogs, from being one of the first ways to reach a global audience no matter who you are, but like anything, they have evolved. So if you're really that upset about this post, you could always move on to one of the other 10,000 blogs out there that don't have advertisements.
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Stereogum has jumped the shark.
Keep collecting those frequent-flier miles Scott. You lost one of your daily readers here.
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First the color: It looks like dropped out the back of a cow.
Last, the name: Zune? Maybe the thing should be called Zover.
(As in itZover)
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"I just cant understand why so many people are having a go at Stereogum...all they did, was bring u informaition, and you are are angry that they accepted a flight from microsoft."
Is Stereogum going to review new iPods in such extreme detail from now on? How about Toshiba, or Creative players? Sony?
Idolator was right...
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Do we really want another catalyst device/temptation [Treo] that satisfies neurotic urges to fidget? I'll pull out that badboy to check for potential cool samples everytime I spot a dude with weird bangs and a bad attitude within 50 feet of me.
I'll be carrying my blackberry and zune to the pharmacy to fill my increased Aderol prescription.
Best case scenario: "to zune" a term of endearment involving scaning a PMP within a designated distance of another person- de facto declaring that person culturally/socially relevant.
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Good Lord, those of you who think a brown electronics device is "cool" need to time warp back to the early 80s and have at it--everything was brown then. It was bad then, ITS BAD NOW. Sadly enough I'm sure you won't be able to jack your Zune up to that lovely brown Commodore 64 of yours and lovingly print out those lovely Zune pictures on your dot matrix printer. . . . .. . . .. .
X X O O
Miss Vicious Vixen (I-Love-the-80s-while-snuffed-out-on-Coke) Mission Stardust
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BOO
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WHAT? No click wheel? That’s the feature that makes the ipod such an user friendly player - it’s easy to use, intuitive, responsive and fast. MS will have to do something amazing to match that experience without it. It would be a hard sell otherwise for me. I’d rather wait for a second version of Zune.
(and I am not an Apple die-hard… I just choose what I like best).
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Yes, I have not seen it yet. My opinion is based simply in what I've read. It may change once I see it - and the only Apple product I have is an ipod.
Speaking of Apple, they should start moving more to consumer electronics area. I'd like to see Apple stereos, Apple TVs... bringing these closer to real software applications with killer UIs and simple to use. E.g. air tunes.
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not even going to bother with the rest of the comments.
all of you bitching about stereogum falling out or whatever for doing this review and saying you just deleted stereogum from your favourites, you dont deserve stereogum anyway. you guys do realize this is a music blog trying to deliver to you the latest in music? and zune is an mp3 device developed by microsoft, the strongest tech company in north america?
stereogum's here to deliver you news, and that's what he did. and i didn't see any of you bitching when stereogum did a whole thing about apple.
it's a great review. thanks for taking the pain to get on a 7 hour flight to seatle to get this info to us, scott.
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It's not a great review. A great review would have said: "It has DRM. It is shit."
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No one made any money out of MS and all you winers have obviously never had to fly anywhere for *WORK*. FFS get over it and grow up.
But if you really want a sneak peak at one of these or the battery life then get a Toshiba Gigabeat S series, cause that is basically what this is.
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As usual, this Stereogum post and it's comments have been both educational and entertaining. Keep up the good work SG!
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>>Is Stereogum going to review new iPods in such extreme detail from now on?
Might want to see this, Billy K (linked in the beginning of this review).
http://www.stereogum.com/archives/003356.html
Seens they already did.
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If the Zune was already on the market I wouldn't be cynical about this "blog." However, it's isn't and I am. This was a transparent attempt to steal some of apple's thunder with their new generation of iPods. "Whore" sounds like the right word.
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Well, not developing the software to enable Zune to work with OS X means I can't have one, even if I wanted... not a smart move when they need all the customers they can get; but then again we all know an iPod works much better with OS X than Windows, and Zune probably wouldn't convert many OS X/iPod users anyway.
I see no use for the Wi-Fi features, and the community that Microsoft hopes to build from it; I never understood the MySpace movement; if I want to interact with my friends I'll go see them, ring them, email them, IM them... not leave a message on a webpage, and forums are a much better way of connecting to like minded people. Saying Microsoft wants to be a part of all that crap really puts me off what could be a good feature... but I won't lose any sleep over not having it.
I like my radio; I even spent a year working in radio, but I'd rather it be a low cost add-on (like the Apple remote) than built in, increasing the devices size and weight... but there have been worse crimes :p
Personalizing the interface: excellent; I don't see why Apple didn't include this option with the first iPod Photo, but on the Zune? Anything to make it luck prettier is a bonus, but I doubt it will change the fact the Zune is pretty harsh on the eyes. I know it's not much different to the iPod, with the minimal buttons, and wheel formation under the screen, but it just doesn't look right. The wheel buttons look tacky, and the lack of markings doesn't help the user one bit. The black border around the screen/wheel makes it look cheap and old fashioned, and why are the two extra buttons in a different style to the others? I think they need to pay their designers a bit more next time.
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If I recall correctly (and I do), everyone poo-poohed the iPod when it launched. It's refreshing to know that, six years later, uninformed opinion is alive and well :-)
My official position: Interesting. Let's see how it does in the market.
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Will the Zune come preloaded with anti-virus software? Or, will it be a "hit reboot" every few minutes like the rest of Microsoft's products?
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Whether Zune does well or not will depend, in no small part, to the media hype, Microsoft's ability to produce a quality (competitive) Zune ecosystem, and the public's perception of differentialtion between Zune and iPod.
As of now, the over 75% of the public has spoken, LOUDLY and Repeatedly, about the type of MP3 player it wants. Its called an iPod. No radio. No subscribtion service. 2.5" color screen is OK. Price points from $79 to $349. Capacity from 1GB to 80GB.
The public has also spoken about the way they want to download music and videos. That's, now, called the iTunes Store. In the US and the other 21 countries where the store is available, it is the #1 legal download site.
It remains to be seen if enough of the public will be as enamored with Microsoft's Zune vision.
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Microsoft Zune (F#@K in Hebrew) I am not one to say if something will flop or not. I agree that the music sharing thing is kinda' cool but knowing people who deal with Microsoft they will find someway to hack this thing and share music more than just to play it three times. I mean it's a Microsoft product. Can you say DLL hell and corruption. I can see artist having a problem with this thing in the long run if it really kicks off. To have a Microsoft product capable of communicating with another is just a bad idea. I don't want to have a network with a Microsoft product. I just don't... No!
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I half-expected an overblown UI on Zune, in the device and in the online store.
So far, from what I've seen, Microsoft has learned to keep it clean and simple.
How applish of them - they've learned what works for iPod, and added Wi-Fi, FM, and larger screen.
iPod will dominate for a while yet, but I think Zune brings something real and interesting to make it eventually a two-player market.
- frabgod
http://www.Zunerama.com
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c'mon guys some of you are ipod diehards. Ipod sucks. It can't even transfer music files from ipod to the pc unless you have a specialized software whereas other mp3 players such as creative, mpio can transfer music files to and fro functioning as a flash drive. The point of ipod ruling the mp3 player is more hype. MP3 formats still rule the market and not the aac format. Ipod is fast becoming obsolescent. I hope zune could do justice without limiting the capacity to transfer mp3 files to and fro. MP3 rules and not aac or wma.
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Gosh, some of these comments are ridiculous! Some of you just take this iPod vs Microsoft stuff too seriously.
Having said that, I really don't think Zune stands a real chance for mass market success. A few simple reasons account for this ...
1. Microsoft, a company which produces software with relative success, has a tendency to want to muscle in with competing products in other markets, often spending millions of dollars and gaining very little other than the ability to say "we offer something for that market too." But do they develop killer products? Is Microsoft's own core Windows market very content with Windows and very loyal to the Microsoft brand itself? Not really, when many die-hard Microsoft Windows users I know are just as happy to own an Apple iPod or shun MS's XBOX 360 for a Sony PS2 & PSP.
2. Microsoft preaches openness and freedom from controlling formats, but has never practiced what it preaches. The Windows Media format itself is a closed format - it's just that because 95% of the world have Windows Media Player on their Windows PC that it APPEARS to be open. (And as for Windows media file format quality?? I say Apple's cross-platform free-to-use QuickTime media offering wins hands-down!) Being dominant is Microsoft's greatest weakness, in my opinion, as the company rarely takes any risks on its own. When has Microsoft last been the FIRST to take a risk with an entirely NEW device in the marketplace? Since DOS itself all those years ago, Microsoft's strategy has been to copy other company's successes with poorly researched "me too" products with very little innovation. And remember, it was a fatal mistake on Apple’s behalf that was mostly responsible for Microsoft’s success with DOS and Windows.
3. Independent research says it time and time again: People want to OWN their music, not rent it. That's what the spirit of the iPod is all about. Carrying the music you OWN with you wherever you are. Are people really willing to trust yet another company who is hoping that in a moment of weakness, the greed of thinking having access to unlimited artists at once beats the ability to own forever just the music one likes? Are people REALLY willing to commit to pay for music every month, and lose all access to it if Microsoft's high ambitions turn out to be over-hyped and the company's strategy focusses elsewhere in years to come? (Where’s mycokemusic today?) The strength of the iTunes store at present is, I think, that people get to keep what they buy and they know they can at least burn tracks they buy to CD with reasonable audio quality if all else fails. The quality of tracks from the iTMS isn't excellent, but it's good enough for the majority to take a risk, knowing that should Apple abandon the iTMS one day, they still have something left that they own and can burn to CD. Plus, the iTunes Store is cross-compatible with Macs and PCs, unlike Microsoft's Zune offerings that keep people tied to Windows only. Now I ask you, who is preaching openness and who is actually practicing it?
4. Apple's iPod offerings are in market maturity, offering Apple the advantages of increased brand loyalty and trust (people who buy one iPod are more likely to buy another), high market share and the company’s ability to further innovate in software and hardware technologies already established on a solid base. While many people hate DRM, most people think Apple's DRM policies are fair enough. And besides the ad-supported free music business models recently in the news there really hasn't been anything out there that has been a true alternative.
5. I think Microsoft's Zune will cause an initial media flurry as with the crop of products the company released in other established markets over the past few years. And there will be those who jump ship to these products, in the belief that big companies are seemingly on their side and it's better to go with the biggest company because the risks of product failure is smaller. That may, to an extent, be true. But, I think people who opt for this way of thinking shouldn't expect the products they buy to be the most innovative or having the biggest concern for end-user satisfaction. This is because history constantly shows companies who get too big become elephants in a sense, often lacking the agility and energy to remain innovative. Buy a Zune if you must, if you're happy with what it offers you for the foreseeable future. But if you want a product that will continue to lead in innovating the market with newer technologies, Apple's next iPod is a safer bet. It may cost more, but you'll be paying extra for a better product overall.
It all depends on what people want their products to be for them and how loyal they are to the brands of the companies that produce the products …
Apple iPod (high brand loyalty associated with innovation, risk factor moderate as iTunes is cross-platform and tracks can be burned to CD, research shows people prefer owning music)
Microsoft Zune (brand perceived as 'me too' with unimaginative products outside core markets, people don't like renting music, "open format" company spin can be challenged in practice, Microsoft brand is way un-cool in perception because it rarely produces killer innovative products and is often willing to sacrifice product design quality for dominant market share and control, produces 'me too' products that are okay for some people who seek no more)
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There's nothing weak about it, check out the side by side stats and comparison. Zune is ahead by margin
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I read from bbc website that Zune players will be able to store music ripped from CDs stored in iTunes. Is this true?
Amrit, of all the writeups I've done research on, yours the best and the comments that followed were awesome.
Thanks!
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I've had a video mp3 player for years now - it's called a pocket pc and it does far more than Zune or any iPod to date. I guess I just don't get all the hype over such limited trendy products.
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To drop a bucket into an empty well. Dudley.
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To drop a bucket into an empty well. Dudley.
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Classical singer Russell Watson postpones his forthcoming UK tour after undergoing brain surgery...
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First off, Zune marketplace works like Xbox Live marketplace, you use points not dollars, you purchase a set amount of points and then buy music or whatever, 79points = 99cents.... $5 gets you 400points i think. Microsoft has already stated that they want there system to be used for all digital media and they are going to do whatever to get to that end.We all know that if gates had his way mp3s would not exist, instead WMA would be the standard, and i dont think that has changed, I would love to know if the new zune supports it and when and how they are going to phase it out.
This all seems to be Microsofts way of getting a piece of a pie they had know idea was this profitable . may they stumble just as bad with this as with MSN music store.
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