Sufjan Stevens: "Rock Is Dead"
In the current issue of New York Magazine, Dylan-friendly Sufjan Stevens talks about his new orchestral suite for 38 musicians (and one 16-mm film), The BQE, which premieres for a three-night stand at Next Wave Festival, starting the first of November. We get some great behind-the-scenes anecdotes about the trials and tribulations of what it's like to conduct such a massive project (hint: it's difficult), but just as interesting (if not more?) is Stevens' comment that rock 'n' roll's dead. Of course, as throughout the piece, he comes off incredibly charming even when proclaiming its demise...
"Rock and roll is dead,” he says, voluble again. “Rock and roll is a museum piece. It has no viability anymore. There are great rock bands today—I love the White Stripes, I love the Raconteurs. But it’s a museum piece. You’re watching the History Channel when you go to these clubs. They’re just reenacting an old sentiment. They’re channeling the ghosts of that era—the Who, punk rock, the Sex Pistols, whatever. It’s been done. The rebellion’s over.Any idea what year it died? Must've been sometime after he recorded "In The Words Of The Governor." The piece also reveals at least one of his parents work at Wal-Mart ("I know my dad does; I don’t know if my stepmother still does.”) Wonder if they like Band Of Horses? Anyhow, we're up for suggestions regarding when r 'n' r kicked the bucket. Perhaps Insane Clown Posse's to blame. Right, another John Wayne Gacy reference -- sorry.
Posted at 9:28 AM
Tags: Sufjan Stevens
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Because rock was always about rebellion?
Good one. Just because hippie folk isn't as big anymore doesn't mean rock is dead.
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in the words of the governor is the shit!
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Honeymoon Suite still rocks.
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While Sufjan Stephen's bland showtunes-eque albums are doing what they can to kill rock, it still lingers on and is stronger than it was at any point since the 90s.
Why doesn't he just go back to making another state-themed album all the while never referencing a single musical tradition from the state he's covering. An album called Illinois that does nothing with the blues or jazz? No thanks.
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Aw, I was hoping by that headline this would be a stream of Sufjan covering the Marilyn Manson song of that name...
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No way, In the Words of the Governor is catchy as hell. Great song.
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Just so you know Mariachi is dead too, as is the Polka.
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sex pistols didn't die!! they still operate under "the killers" moniker.
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As much as I might enjoy Sufjan's music, I think he and a lot of the indie "folks" really need to eat a piece of humble pie. Just because you can arrange a massively complicated orchestral suite does not give you the license to make such declarations, no matter how elequant your words...or how beautiful your music.
Let and let enjoy. The Stalin-esh way that websites like Pitchfork set musical trends makes me want to vomit. Can't music simply be enjoyed? The true key to enjoying music is not critical review, its what it makes you feel personally that makes it special
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So the only rock bands out there have Jack White in them? Does this guy live under a rock?
I saw Sufjan on Austin City Limits and seriously considered suicide. There were all these people standing around in angel wings playing the most boring, pointless music I've heard in some time. What a poser. He couldn't even make eye contact with any one in his "band", let alone the audience, what a sham. I was fooled by this guy for about ten minutes when first "came out". I can't wait for this turd to go away.
I hope this a-hole writes an album about Texas, then comes here to play it so we can Greg Dulli his ass (look it up, son). I know annoying little shits like spoofjan say provacative shit like that just to get reaction but to plug it into the saying of the day, "really????"
i'm gonna go listen to the D.C. Snipers...
Suf-Yawn.
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whaaaaaaa! somebody said rock is dead. boo fucking hoo. guess what people have been saying that for 20+ years and people Still cry and get offended that someone said that! the nerve someone would declare rock dead, how dare they.
just so were clear, what exactly DOES give one license to declare rock dead, ryan? i think somebody needs a slice of humble pie put i dont think its the indie "folks" but the ones buying into and putting so much weight into what others have to say about it.
everyone bitches about sites like p4k that critique music...if you don't like reviews, try not reading them instead of crying about when you like something someone declares irrelevant. imagine that concept.
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So, humble pie, by the extension of that logic, critics should also just ignore things they don't like instead of critiquing them?
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Yup, it'd dead because it's cool to like classical music now. His new piece to a classical ear will probably be a piece of shit but to rocker kids will make him look so cool. Classical is dead.
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bret,
can we be friends?
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I have to say that my favorite part about reading/listening to people's opinions about someone else's opinions is how they (the reactors) can not do so without commenting on their (in this instance Sufjan) poor/non-existent talent. It is possible to dislike someone's opinion without disliking their music. You do not sound smarter nor do you have the power to denounce someone's integrity.
How American of you.
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I have to say that my favorite part about reading/listening to people's opinions about someone else's opinions is how they (the reactors) can not do so without commenting on their (in this instance Sufjan) poor/non-existent talent. It is possible to dislike someone's opinion without disliking their music. You do not sound smarter nor do you have the power to denounce someone's integrity.
How American of you.
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Is Sufjan Stevens a singer or something?
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As long as kids are still buying guitars and drums and playing in their parent's garage rock is not dead. It's only dead to Sufjan cause he's never really rocked before.
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rock n roll is not dead.
rock n roll will never die.
long live rock.
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although i love what you're doing, Sufjan - folk music has been around longer than rock has. is folk dead? classical music?
music cant die. it just grows into other things.
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^ see you guys, if rock was dead then how could he be making comments on stereogum?? also he said he will never die, oh good!!
i only like sufjan's christmas stuff.
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Why wasn't this posted as a "Bigmouth Strikes Again?"
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Is it just me or does a lot of this sound straight out of the mouth of Lester Bang's in Almost Famous. As for if he's right or not I'm not sure.
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what a hottie!
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Dude needs a swift kick to the groin.
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"While Sufjan Stephen's bland showtunes-eque albums are doing what they can to kill rock, it still lingers on and is stronger than it was at any point since the 90s.
Why doesn't he just go back to making another state-themed album all the while never referencing a single musical tradition from the state he's covering. An album called Illinois that does nothing with the blues or jazz? No thanks."
^
CO-SIGN
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yes ryan, we can be friends.
;)
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I think complaints about Sufjan's state-themed albums not adequately referencing the musical innovations of the states ("Illinois"-blues, "Michigan"-motown) are absolutely retarded. Sufjan has acknowledged that he uses the whole state-theme thing as a broad narrative construct. People who look to his albums for an exhaustive history of Illinois, Michigan, whatever, are missing the point. Can someone explain to me why Sufjan's failure to explicitly reference "a single musical tradition from the state" is so offensive?
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Cue the Steven Banks song:
"Rock and roll will never die, but: rock n' rollers do..."
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Bullshit. Rock never dies. It just sucks, sometimes.
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Punk rock died when the first kid said: "Punk's not dead. Punk's not dead."
-- David Berman, The Silver Jews
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If I have my rock and roll history correct, people were saying this in the early 60s before the Beatles shoved it up their asses.
Furthermore, what is the point of saying that "rock is dead"? Sufjan, god bless him, should know better than to care one iota about a limited classification such as "rock n' roll." Bands from 2 years ago are museum pieces in our hyper-nostalgic-sentimental culture. "In the Words of the Governor" obviously shows that Sufjan knows he is speaking bung.
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Finish this statement:
Sufjan Stevens is to Indie what John Mayer is to Pop; "_______", "________" and in over their heads.
and the Rock sure seemed pretty alive to me judging from the Wilco show I just saw the other night.
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I wish Sufjan Steven were dead, at least musically. I cannot think of anyone more boring to listen to, except maybe Radiohead ;) Hell yeah just I said that! So flame on youngster bitches!
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it's pronounced suff-jan, okay? just whatever, okay? geez.
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Forget about Rock n' Roll being dead... Music is dead!!! It's worthless repetitive noise made by retarded reprobates with no poetic skill. Doesn't matter what format you release it on... similarly poo is still poo, no matter what the consistency.
If you want to get into something life changing try and grab some silence. It's beautiful. Though knowing you f**knuts, you'll wait until Deerhoof do a cover of it and release it on lossless format and download it from iPubes.
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Someday someone will look back at Sufjan the way the punks looked back at the bombastic virtuosity of some early 70's acts. A few more albums like Sufjan's precious little Illinois and Arcade Fire's ponderously pontificating Neon bible will lead to some rocker repeating Tommy Ramone's words "I knew that what was needed was some pure, stripped down, no bullshit rock 'n' roll."
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I think he has a point. Yes I'm defending Sufjan.
Music like all other art forms has movements or periods of stylized conception that reach a zenith of forward thinking and then at some point all of the art resembling it appears to have become kitsch or trite.
Think surrealism, dadaism, minimalism, modernism, most-Modernism... etc
Point is, rock really is dead. That doesn't mean there aren't musicians out there who still make great rock.
It just means that by definition rock isn't at the center of the current evolutional musical epiphany.
It's been done. So what's next? That's a good question. But rock has been explored... the goal now of any forward thinking musician might be in exploring different permutations and hybridizations of it all. Something more pastiche.
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uh yeah rock is a museum piece, as opposed to FOLK music. that's completely new and fresh.
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i don't think rock is dead, but i agree with the majority of what sufjan is saying.
as far as "innovation" in music, most of it happens outside of "rock" music.
as much as i like to "rock", i can't think of anything truly innovative that a "rock" band has done since "daydream nation".
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I wish Andrew Bird would kick Sufjan Stevens's ass. I think he can take him, break his little fairy wings, make him cry by smacking him with a violin... now that's rn'r.
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i don't think rock is dead, but i agree with the majority of what sufjan is saying.
as far as "innovation" in music, most of it happens outside of "rock" music.
as much as i like to "rock", i can't think of anything truly innovative that a "rock" band has done since "daydream nation". okay, maybe "american water" by the silver jews. but not much else.
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Forget about music being dead... life in general has no purpose anymore. I mean there's no one out there in the world doing anything of any good anymore. Why don't we all kill ourselves?
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I'll do it if you all do it
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You do realize that this statement was taken completely out of context in order to insite mass commenting and attention on the Stereogum website. It's shameless really.
Sufjan wasn't saying Rock is "dead" in the sense that there isn't anything good about Rock music anymore. He was just saying that there isn't any inovation in it anymore. Everyone is content to reexplore the things other bands from the 50s through the 90s already discovered. It's all still good, and we need fresh songs that don't challenge our understanding and what not. But as a creative outlet, it's limits are fairly well defined.
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Jeez, I didn't know that Stevens was such a totally pompous ass. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Now I've got one more reason for not liking him. Other than, you know, his music.
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"sex pistols didn't die!! they still operate under "the killers" moniker."
Wait, I thought John Lydon and the new "crew" were operating as "Good Charlotte" instead.
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Does anyone else think he's a penis? Just look at that photo.
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sufjan backlash? you don't say.
you guys are all so fucking predictable.
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Rock 'N Roll died when I took my cock out of Meg's cunt in our video.
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and shot a whole load on her backside.
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>>>Is Sufjan Stevens a singer or something?
most relevant statement posted here.
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i thougt that this was settled when pitchfork gave music a 6.8 last month...
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/pitchfork_gives_music_6_8
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wow glad you guys got so upset, go outside or something.
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Its only dead if you say its dead. Besides, theres plenty rock bands around, thing is, everything seems to be classed as "alternative" nowadays. Its weird.
Claiming a genre of music is dead is just about the stupidest thing someone can say. I would explain myself but i cant be bothered.
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Rock has always been interpretative. Is jazz dead too?
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Remember when people thought swing music would replace rock n' roll? Oh, the 90s...
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a rock can not die
a rock was never alive
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The cultural movement of rock is dead, that's what "rock is dead" means. This is all supported by the attitudes of those involved and corperate involvement. Look at clear channel, look at woodstock '99, look at the billboard charts, look at all of the demographics being targeted. Saying rock is dead doesn't mean that it is nonexistant. It just means that it's time to place it with blues, jazz, classical, etc. Those movements are in the past, but the music still exists. Yeah there are rock bands still around, so what? That doesn't mean the genre is still alive in the context here. People still play the blues, but the blues movement is dead.
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I'll weigh in:
I suppose he's right in a regard. Rock isn't at the frontier of music anymore. It's been diverging ever since we formed a concrete definition of what 'rock' was.
Although there are still many bands that produce great music within that genre, there's little innovation going on.
That said, I *am* glad to see that we're seeing a bunch of new genres spawning out of older stuff.
Look at bands like The Arcade Fire or The Arctic Monkeys. They're not exactly 'Rock', but their roots can very easily be traced back. I particularly like The Arcade Fire, because they use the traditional sort of rock & roll motifs, but with a much larger palette of instruments and sounds.
Then again, I can't really decide if Sufjan's music is all that innovative. He's an absolute genius as a musician and songwriter, but I'm wouldn't be all that sure that he's boldly exploring new frontiers.
All that said, I'm looking forward to hearing material of his that's specifically prepared for an Orchestra. His free orchestral performance at the Kennedy Center was hands-down the best bit of live music I've ever experienced. Listening to Majesty Snowbird performed by a full orchestra was the closest I've came to a cathartic experience at a concert.
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Man,
did someone just smash their guitar and put it through an amp? the angst in this place is so thick you can feel it. Guys, sufjan's not about writing off a genre... he's about making genre obsolete. He's saying this mentality, the rebellion, it's over. Not that playing some your guitar with some heavy distortion is lame, and not that it's no fun to hit your drum kit hard, he's saying that the mindset behind that art form in particular, it's dead. really, it is. I mean, what's punk nowadays? whose selling the most rock albums? nickleback, taking back sunday? he's got a point, this thing has been exploited. look at the album the who put out this year, c'mon. the eagles have some deal cut with wal-mart for their record on the way. paul mccartney signs with starbucks record label. take off your led zep shirts, strip down the kitsch, and pull the new devendra from your turntable (i think it sucks, by the way.) dont read into this out of context quote so much, sufjan doesnt take himself seriously enough to try and create a stink.
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read the article before shooting your mouth off. lots of ignorant comments based on the sentence "rock is dead."
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this thread is dead (and boring)
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Hey Humble Pie,
You don't see that I am saying that I could care less about opinion? I enjoy music. I tap my toes to it. I rarely criticize it because I listen to what sounds good to me. I am aware of the machine that spits out vile comments about this band or that band, and what makes them relevent or not. I choose not to be a cog in the wheel most of the time. So I opened my mouth and you jumped in. How cool is that! Thanks for setting me straight, young master pie.
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Right on Schmod!
It's all been done.
I think the next big thing will be subliminal space music!
You won't even be able to hear it but you'll feel like you love whatever it is.
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Sufjan Stevens is dead.
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Sujan's comment doesn't bother me nearly as much as people calling him a genius.
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Both Stevens and the people upset over his comments are fucking idiots. Stevens, for not realizing that this goddamn thing was gonna be taken out of context, and you asshats who think making fun of his music are actually saying something smart and defending rock from this "slight". And if this is your general attitude about anyone who tries to criticize "rock" as a concept, you might as well pose with a shovel.
BTW, the last sentence of the article: "So if rock and roll is dead, what’s classical? He laughs. 'Mummified.'”
This from the guy who's admitting to being a hack composer.
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Rock will never be dead as long as Billy Idol lives.
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what the hell does this even matter? whether one person believes rock is dead or not does not warrant attacking his masterful music or pigeon holing the people that listen to it. and yes i believe that sufjan is brilliant and his music a delight. since when did it begin to matter what a musical artist's stance on the origins of rock and roll are and when did it begin effecting his creative efforts in making music? grow up.
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But his twee shit lives forever...
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Give me The Hold Steady, Uncle Tupelo or Spoon. any of those bands are 10 times more relevant and thoughtful this guy.
and this just in, music can't "die." From a guy who is supposedly respected in the industry, this sounds like something a 9th grade white kid from the 'burbs would say.
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Wow, Sufjan is one cocky prick.
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Rock N Roll Will Never Die
http://www.mybrightestdiamond.com/rocknrollwillneverdie/
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OiNK! Oh precious OiNK! Gone. :'(
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its kind of really funny how offended many of you are.
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thank you david for your comments defending the "states" albums. you are right on. i think if he were to make albums referencing the states' musical traditions, it would be more insulting than omitting them as he did.
sufjan is pretty amazing.
his job isn't to cater to blog nerds like us. he is a guy making music who is always trying new things. he was commissioned to do this project. he didn't think it up because he thinks he is better than you. someone saw his ambition and thought it would work in this context. i think it will work wonderfully. pitchfork will give it a 6.0, but whatever. like it's been said on here before, it's pretty sad how these music sites can determine musical trends.
the quote is taken out of context. subsequently, the majority of these commenters took it out of context as well. sufjan was saying that there is no innovation anymore, it's just repackaging old ideas to nieve audiences. there was nothing arrogant in his comments, nor have i ever read anything arrogant in an interview. he seems to me a very humble person who loves to write, learn and play music.
people cannot seriously still believe that simple stripped down rock and roll is the highest form of expression. i do not believe you. it may make you sound more rock and roll to say it, but as great and amazing and life-changing as rock is, it is a limited form of expression. that's why ambitious music like sufjan's or the more odd [from a pop perspective] side of ambition like animal collective/panda bear, grizzly bear, deerhoof, etc. gets so much attention. they don't settle for the messy, sloppy, been-done-before motif of "rock."
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If Nas said "Hip Hop is Dead" and Sufjan is telling us "rock & roll is dead" and Britney showed us bubble-gum pop is dead... does that mean Country is so hot right now??
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As much as I enjoy Sufjan's music, lyrics, live shows, etc... I don't agree with his opinion. I don't believe rock will ever die. It's been around for 50+ years and will always be played. Maybe right now it's in a decline, but it's definately not dead. Over the years rock has evolved and taken different shapes, currently it's in an indie rock stage. And it seems like there's a new band out every week...
Anyways, back to Sufjan's statement...... it's just Sufjan's opinion. He has just as much a right to voice his thoughts as anyone does (perhaps in lyrics to a new indie rock song)... We just take notice and poke at Sufjan's because he's famous (at least on an indie scale).
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But rock IS dead.
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aren't we forgetting something here?
boobs.
rock can't be dead, because boobs still exist.
and i like sufjan.
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I like Sufjan, nice to see he is a Jack White fan, but i would say he only somewhat right. Rock has moved so far away from its roots it no longer has any semblance of its roots. (Unless you hear folk/rock/blues influences in Fallout Boy or Atreyu. Doubtful). I wouldn't even call Sufjan rock. He makes good music without doubt, but its hard to call it rock. Jack White is the last of breed. I hope thre is someone to pass the torch to.
Bob Dylan begat Jack, who will Jack begat? I also think Conor Oberst deserves a lot of credit. Is it safe to see him live now? I saw him a couple of years ago and his show was flooded with teenagers.
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He should write a song about Vancouver and then my triad boys will chop him up and throw him in the harbour in hello kitty baggies
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http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/1026072mugs18.html
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as much as i admire his work, i think SS copped this line from someone else's conversation about the state of jazz music in today's world. in fact, i'm pretty sure i've heard the EXACT same phrase as applied to jazz. rock music is just another way of calling music LOUD. so, rock and roll will never die...unless we all go deaf.
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Wow, around 200 comments, not one single mention of Lenny Kravitz's "Rock and Roll is Dead" (1995). Why is it always the least qualified people making these proclamations?
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Bleh. Bleh. Bleh.
So he says "rock is dead." So what? Who cares what he says? Listen carefully. Your ears will tell you otherwise. . . rock is alive and always will be. Seems to me many had the same message to sell when Cobain offed himself. "The last of the Rock Starz" "The end of the genre we knew as rock." Party over. Get out yer easy listenin muzac. Notsomuch, as Neil Young said some thirty years ago "hey, hey my, my, rock and roll can never die"
I can imagine that some 10 year old kid uninspired by the 80's pablum his parents li