The A.V. Club's 20 Acts That Peaked With The Debut Album
Here we are in the midst of '08, a year that will undoubtedly see debut albums by a few bands we won't know about next year. Or, on the other hand, bands we wish we'd stop hearing about next year. It's true: Sometimes a group crystallizes their finest moments the first time around, spends the rest of their career trying to somehow tap that early magic. The people at the A.V. Club are smart. They know this, too. In fact, they've given us a Top 20. Via A.V. Club:
20 Sunny Day Real Estate - Diary
19 Snoop Doggy Dogg - Doggystyle
18 Supergrass - I Should Coco
17 The Sugarcubes - Life's Too Good
16 Wu-Tang clan - Enter The Wu-Tang
15 Boston - Boston
14 Marshall Crenshaw - Marshall Crenshaw
13 Black Flag - Damaged
12 The Sundays - Reading, Writing, And Arithmetic
11 Taking Back Sunday - Tell All Your Friends
10 Television - Marquee Moon
09 Kanye West - The College Dropout
08 John Prine - John Prine
07 The Notorious B.I.G. - Ready To Die
06 Nas - Illmatic
05 The Modern Lovers - The Modern Lovers
04 The Strokes - Is This It
03 Richard Hell And The Voidoids - Blank Generation
02 50 Cent - Get Rich Or Die Tryin'
01 Rage Against The Machine - Rage Against The Machine
Actually, the list is pretty tight. We're not entirely sure we agree with the inclusion of The College Dropout. Since the pointing out of the ones they missed is inevitable, we'll get it started with a pair of roses: Guns 'N Roses, Stone Roses. Your move.
Posted at 6:26 PM
I don't entirely agree with the strokes and rage, but most are pretty accurate.
they're definitely missing bands like bloc party and clap your hands say yeah.
so disappointing.
Score = -2
Well I think Kanye is totally wrong for this list. It is very debatable which is his best album between his first two. Including the Strokes is a joke. I mean they only have two albums out. Artic Monkeys should be on there before the Strokes. If you just want groups that never matched their first album you could certainly include The Pixies. As for groups that peaked with their first album, number one should be The Sex Pistols. But, of course, they never realeased another album.
Score = -4
Well...lots of bands that peaked with their first album went on to do some pretty brilliant stuff later -- is this list emphasizing stratification between earlier and later material or just mentioning what bands' debuts were their best album? If it's the latter then add Pavement and The Velvet Underground to the list.
Lots of rappers.
Score = -1
Rage did not spend the rest of their career trying to recapture the sound of their debut. Evil Empire is a great album.
Score = 0
They forgot to include Arcade Fire.
Score = -4
The Violent Femmes. Duh.
Score = 5
God am I the only one that thinks Evil Empire is vastly superior to Rage's debut? It's less "hard" or whatever but it just musically sounds better.
Score = -2
i whole-heartedly agree with the kanye inclusion.
Score = -1
interpol - turn on the bright lights
Score = 16
so agree!! i though i would love interpol forever when i heard that album...not so much in retrospect.
Score = 1
Okay, first thing Bloc Party has only 2 albums out. little early there poalo. Also, Battle for Los Angeles was WAY better than their eponymous debut. Evil Empire was prolly better also.
Score = 1
why include bands that are in the middle of their career?
i think the strokes have a lot left, and i guess same with kanye, though i'm not a huge fan. as for bloc party, clap your hands say yeah, and arcade fire.... only 2 albums out by each, but i have to agree on interpol.
Score = 9
Add: Dead Kennedys, Ryan Adams, and probably REM
Score = -8
That's the most random list I've ever seen.
But I agree with Ralf, there's no greater example of this phenomenon than Violent Femmes.
Maybe De La Soul comes in second.
The Shins.
And Blood Sweat and Tears, but that might be a little too random, although not as random as Marshall Crenshaw.
Score = -1
De La Soul? That's a joke, right? "De La Soul is Dead" is tremendous ... and, hell, "Buhloone Mindstate" is equally amazing.
Totally disagree with Sunny Day's inclusion on this list. The pink album, for me, is tops.
Score = 1
the shins? definitely not chutes too narrow and wincing the night away are equal or better
Score = 9
Counting Crows - August and Everything After
You can say they suck if you want, but there's no debate that was there best album by far.
Score = 4
You can't be serious about Counting Crows! Recovering The Satellites was far superior to the debut. Even This Desert Life was great. They only lost it with Hard Candy. Amen to whoever said Ryan Adams. His solo career has been a steady downwards trajectory, similar to one of those vertical drop rollercoasters. It's also way too soon to judge The Strokes or CYHSY and anyway, Room On Fire was massively overlooked. And Mark BT deserves to be shot for including Big Star. Radio City is phenomenal. How about Son Volt, Fountains of Wayne or Ben Kweller? I know I automatically lose 3000 cool points for mentioning them but I think Third Eye Blind's first record was pretty great and they've been crap ever since.
Score = -2
Does it really count as being a one album wonder if you die after your second? I Think Life After Death is an amazing album. Biggie definitely didn't peak after Ready to Die.
Score = 2
Does Britney Spears fall into a special category for peaking with her debut single?
Score = 3
@ George:
REM? Are you kidding? Conventional critiques would probably assert that they peaked with Automatic for the People; being a fan, I believe Fables of the Reconstruction, Life's Rich Pageant, Document, AND Automatic are all on par with Murmur.
Score = 2
I've never cared for Automatic, but you may be right.
Score = -1
agreed, golden until Document--spotty after
Score = 0
I'm not the biggest Strokes fan, but I figure it should be obvious to anyone with ears that Room On Fire is an IMPROVEMENT of Is This It? Shouldn't this be common knowledge by now?
Score = 4
It should be! I agree wholeheartedly.
I also think they're wrong about John Prine, but I don't imagine screaming "WHAT ABOUT 'SWEET REVENGE'?" at the top of my longs will really spark much debate among stereogum readers.
As for the Modern Lovers, that's iffy. Yeah, The Modern Lovers were better than Jonathan Richman & the Modern Lovers, but I don't know of anyone who thinks of them as the same entity. Maybe a second Modern Lovers album would have been just as good, but there wasn't one, so it's kind of stupid to have it on this list.
And naturally the Modern Lovers peaked with their first (only, if you ask me) album: it's only got the greatest rock 'n' roll song ever(!) on it.
Score = 4
Room On Fire blew...
Score = -13
the alarm
Score = 0
BLOC PARTY.
and crappy bands like paramore and the academy is... great debut albums, bad,overhyped follow ups.
Score = -7
The Evens.
Not like Ian Mackaye really needs to vindicate himself any further....
Score = 0
vampire weekend.
Score = 15
VIOLENT FEMMES AND WEEZER OBVIOUSLY
Score = 0
VIOLENT FEMMES AND WEEZER OBVIOUSLY
Score = 0
Pinkerton is so much better than the Blue album
Score = 1
@ paolo
Pavement? Grow some taste: CR and Wowee were both incredible
also, an artist should have a minimum of 2 albums after their first to be included in this discussion, so guys like clap your hands say yeah are out
this list isnt terrible, but it's mostly a bunch of huge names...they didnt really go out on a limb or anything here. I agree with Nas, but only because illmatic is the best rap album ever made, and no one can be expected to top that
my two cents: clinic
i win
Score = 0
do the Sex Pitsols count?
Score = 1
do the Sex Pistols count?
Score = 1
I gotta call shenanigans on the Wu too
Score = 2
Definately don't agree with Kanye West. Graduation is a great cd, equally as good as college dropout for different reasons. He's developed a new style and its a great album all the way through, I can recall a few songs that I skip over when listening to College Dropout.
Score = 0
i agree. i think its awesome that kanye is doing what he is doing. Aside from maybe timbaland no other mainstream rapper is putting that much emphasis on musical experimentation and all that sonic bullshit...
Score = 2
Haha fuckkk, that wasnt @ paolo, it was Ralf
and you didnt exactly nominate pavement for the list, either, i read that too fast.
sorry for the rant :p
Score = 0
Foo Fighters--by far--should be number one. Badass debut, okay to mediocre albums since.
Score = 2
id...do you really want to include arcade fire into the sophomore slump category? i actually thought funeral was a pretty damn amazing album...
...yes, there was an album before funeral with a better version of no cars go.
Score = -3
that was an ep. doesn't actually count. or at least not in my book. which we all know is definitive. this list is all relative anyway.
Score = -1
that wasn't a proper album. it was an EP, wiz kid.
Score = 3
Neon Bible fucking blew, and if we're talking about debut ALBUMS, Arcade Fire EP does not count.
Score = -4
SERIOUSLY...what about Clap Your Hands Say Yeah?
Score = 2
I don't think it counts when the debut sucks.
Score = -1
They only have one record out after the first!
relax
Score = 0
Black Flag Damaged? I guess technically their third album, but they had enough recorded output with multiple singers before Rollins to make 2 albums worth of music.
And Modern Lovers.. that's ridiculous. All the Jonathan Richman & The Modern Lovers albums are AMAZING.
Score = 0
Honestly though, what the FUCK was going on with that Snoop Dogg cover art?
Score = 6
Clap Your Hand Say Yeah does not belong on this list. They aren't important enough.
Score = 0
minus rage, john prine and television, this is just a list of shitty bands/rappers.
i think AIR should be on here.
Score = -5
Supergrass' debut album was great, but most of their other albums (bar their brand new album) have been pretty great too. They definitely don't belong on this list. Personally I thought that Bloc Party's second album was superior to their first. But every Strokes album has sucked! The Stone Roses definitely belong on the list. What about Elastica?
Score = 2
Supergrass has been putting out consistently excellent albums for ten years man. That's a totally unfair and uneducated addition to the list.
Score = 1
Jesus & Mary Chain
Score = 3
uh, the title of the avclub's list specified rock/rap. I agree that bands with only one or two albums shouldn't be included, unless there's no chance of them releasing more material. Thus, we can include The Unicorns and The Libertines.
Score = 1
Weezer for sure should be on there.
Score = 1
Are you kidding? Pinkerton? Weezer definitely peaked on their second album.
Completely agree with the TBS, Strokes, RATM and SDRE, though.
Score = -1
kidacomputerok I totally agree with you about the Foo Fighters! Glad to see some other people calling BS on naming Supergrass on this list.
Score = 0
Supergrass's 2nd album "In It For the Money" is vastly superior to their debut ...
Score = 2
What about RADIOHEAD?!?!
.... (kidding)
Score = 5
Biggie only released "Ready to Die" while he was living, any other album came out after he died, of course none of them were any good!
Score = 2
Weezer did not peak with the blue album. Even if you like it more, they obviously peaked with Pinkerton and it was down hill after that. I think they tried not to include bands that only had 2 albums to their credit, hence the absence of Bloc Party.
Score = 1
Arctic Monkeys
Yeah Yeah Yeah's
Amy Winehouse (and i stand by my prediction)
Band of Horses
Hot Hot Heat
Jack Johnson
Kings of Leon
Neutral Milk Hotel
some of these bands have had only 1 or 2 albums out but it's obvious that they're done
Score = -22
Hot Hot Heat is definitely a good one to include. Their major label signing pretty much put them into the "Whatever Happenned To..." pile and watered their sound down to par with Strokes B-Sides.
Score = 1
Right on, Mike. "Knock Knock Knock," the first E.P. they released (after acquiring their poodle-headed singer), is by far the best thing they've ever done. It's darker, heavier and has more of a Clash/ Punk sound. Dante De Caro's departure hammered the final nail in their coffin. I saw them in Toronto just before their first full-length came out; everyone left immediately after opening band "Pilate" performed (which made no sense because they sounded like Coldplay being raped)
Score = -1
So you're saying that Neutral Milk Hotel peaked with On Avery Island instead of In the Aeroplane Over the Sea? Or are you not counting On Avery Island since it was prety much just a Jeff Mangum solo album with a band name on it?
Or did you just not know that album existed?
Score = 5
Neutral Milk Hotel was a typo. I forgot at the time that Avery Island was first.
Score = 0
Jesus and Mary Chain were always spotty, but Stoned and Dethroned is a great fucking album.
Score = 0
Wait. Scratch Neutral Milk Hotel. I take that one back
Score = 3
How about Black Rebel Motorcycle Club ... Not that their first album is all that good, but better than the crap they've served up since
Score = -3
Howl was an incredible album.
Score = 1
radiohead - pablo honey
Score = -4
Anyone who says Weezer or Pavement is fucking idiot/joke
Score = 5
Slanted and Enchanted is Pavement's best album. It's debatable whether or not the Blue Album is Weezer's.
Score = 0
Yeah, but this is more a list of artists who had a great first album and went on to disappointing careers, i think. Pavement made at least two more incredible albums, and were still great even after wowee, though they werent the same
Score = 0
i fucking disagree with the richard hell inclusion. destiny street was amazing. it had 'staring in her eyes'. his stuff with the dim stars was awesome.
Score = 0
Only one thats debatable at all is damaged, my war is great and black flag had tons of other material before damaged.
Score = -1
I agree with whoever said Weezer.
Score = -1
People - give "Hallowed Ground" a chance. It is a true original and has some great ass songs on it.
sincerely, Mrs. Ground
Score = 0
Thank you for saying that jps! Hallowed Ground is one of my favorite records and I've loved it more than the debut....
Score = 0
badly drawn boy. he blows ass now, but that first album was pretty great.
Score = 3
agreed, kevin.
Score = 0
the beatles
Score = 0
Ha - on the flip side of this, it would be interesting to make a list of the bands who have aged the best over time, or improved like fine wines...
Score = 3
Murmur is the best thing REM did. One of the best albums anyone did. Thats not disrespecting the great REM albums that came after it.
Score = 1
YOUR OPINIONS ARE WRONG! MY OPINIONS ARE RIGHT!
Score = 7
Radiohead. Nuff said.
Score = 0
what about the killers? i kinda dug their first album, but everything else has been shite.
Score = 0
you're an adult. please stop saying shite.
Score = -1
i think all the hip hop albums should be stricken from the list since the output of most rap artists borders on assembly line frequency. also something should be said for bands that made a career of putting out their debut album over and over again (The Ramones and My Bloody Valentine). Check.
Score = -5
judging from that comment, there is no possible way you have ever heard MBV's debut.
Score = 6
Agreed. All of MBV's records sound radically different, and in fact almost everyone agrees that their final album was the best one. (If indeed it was their final album...we'll see about that.)
Score = 1
Let's all wait until the current fashionable causes anti-celebres release more than, say, two albums before consigning them to this list, yes? Although I was gonna suggest Vampire Weekend would be one of these in a decade, myself...
But for the record, Supergrass at least STAYED better for awhile (Road to Rouen is a damn good pop record), and Battle of Los Angeles eclipses all the Rage albums before it...
Score = 0
Anyone who said Vampire Weekend is a joke. If you didnt like their album (forst of all you dont know music), then there is no reason for you to say that they will be on this list in the future because you didnt even like the first. If you did like it, then you're retarded if you say a band you like is going to suck.
Score = -1
This is the dumbest list I've ever seen.
First of all, it totally ignores the biggest debut peaker of all time:
The Stone Roses.
Weezer?
I agree with The Wu and Rage,
but Taking Back Sunday?
Really?
I didn't know they qualified for this competition, seeing as they are a terrible band, and always have been.
Im still shocked to see that no one has said ANYTHING about the Roses.
TSR was the biggest thing since the Beatles when they came out, then their massive fall was so prodigious that they have never been heard of again.
Score = 0
That's such a great point about the Stone Roses; I can't believe that one wasn't top of their list.
Score = 0
its only because they've only made 2 albums. and you know they waited 10+ years simply because there was no way they were going to top that first album, but they still don't really qualify.
Score = 0
the blue album is obviously the best, and the promise ring should be on that list as should modest mouse
Score = -3
I'd like to add Oasis to this list. And this is not to say I disliked their other records, but their debut was still their finest moments.
And for those who mentioned R.E.M or Pavement - you my friends are just not all there.
Score = 5
I think those people were under the impression that this list was "their first albums were their best albums" and not "their first albums were good but then they never did anything else worthwhile or nearly as good"
Score = 0
Interpol...
Score = 1
What the hell is with the lack of love for the Stone Roses' "Second Coming". As far as I'm concerned, it's their only album. Their first one pales in comparison. What's the deal? Breaking Into Heaven, Ten Storey Love Song, Tightrope, Love Spreads... that album is chock full of awesome cuts. Why the hate? Is it because of the one hit wonder? Who gives a shit, it was a great album.
I'll never get over the first time I saw the "complete" Stone Roses and it was all shit from their first album. I always thought it was some weird Brits vs. the world thing where they held the first one aloft because they were the ones who FELT it before they got some recognition across the pond, but you know... apparently I was way out to lunch on that one.
Score = -3
you are totally in the minority. second coming PALES in comparison to the Stone Roses "debut". sure, second coming had some great songs, but their debut is flawless from start to finish. one of the most underrated (outside the UK) yet greatest albums in history.
Score = 1
what about thunderbirds are now?
Score = 1
Rage??? Seriously???
Tom Morello's most innovative guitar work appeared on the next two albums. Zack De La Rocha's best lyrics are on those two as well.
The differences between all three Rage albums are subtle. They didn't go in a radically different direction with each album a la Radiohead. But that doesn't mean they didn't progress. Read interviews with them and you'll find they were in no way trying to "recapture" the first album. Listen closer to each album and you'll find they got tighter, funkier, and more creative with each one.
Score = -1
Rage??? Seriously???
Tom Morello's most innovative guitar work appeared on the next two albums. Zack De La Rocha's best lyrics are on those two as well.
The differences between each Rage album are subtle. They didn't go in a radically different direction with each album a la Radiohead. But that doesn't mean they didn't progress. Read interviews with them and you'll find they were in no way trying to "recapture" the first album. Listen closer to each album and you'll find they got tighter, funkier, and more creative with each one.
Score = -2
Rage??? Seriously???
Tom Morello's most innovative guitar work appeared on the next two albums. Zack De La Rocha's best lyrics are on those two as well.
The differences between each Rage album are subtle. They didn't go in a radically different direction with each album a la Radiohead. But that doesn't mean they didn't progress. Read interviews with them and you'll find they were in no way trying to "recapture" the first album. Listen closer to each album and you'll find they got tighter, funkier, and more creative with each one.
Score = -2
Vampire Weekend
Score = -4
Seems to be a matter of taste, so Im putting in my 2 cents as well, Interpol no way.
PEARL JAM yes way!
Score = 1
The Killers and Guns 'n Roses = my two cents. "New Adventures In Hi-Fi" takes the cake for REM, and Weezer's "Blue" is their best, so no joy there. We could also throw in The Darkness and The Foo Fighters.
Score = -2
Apologies. Weezer DID peak with "Blue".
Score = -4
Patti Smith anyone? I think she still puts out some pretty good stuff, but who's going to argue that any of her other studio albums topped "Horses"?
Score = 0
Something interesting is happening is Israel, a non profit project called "good enough for wembley" aims to take as many talented "good enough" bands to rock wembley stadium in England. Each band pays a few cents to sign up and the money goes to promote this concert. Log in and help spread the word? www.goodenoughforwembley.com
Score = -2
A lot of the bands I have seen mentioned here have a very novel sound... Clap your hands say yeah for instance, catch the listener more on their unusual sound than their actual talents and while the album happens to be awesome as well, once the novelty of their sound wears off, they don't really have any real selling points unless you haven't heard them.
The suggestion of Vampire Weekend while entirly possible makes me kind of sad. Not only does the person simply have no faith in the band whatsoever, but such an early judgement implies that the band only got to where they are on luck. Yes, Vampire Weekend is another band whose novel sound makes it seem that they are more recognized for being different than good. But they are also pretty damn good. Personally I have no idea what the future will hold, but let's keep in mind that this is not a complete list. it's the top 20. And even if Vampire Weekend does fail on their next release: In the Top 20? Really?...
Also, whoever said Radiohead needs to stop whatever it is that they are doing to punch themself in the teeth. (And if it was a joke, you should have gone for "That band that wrote 'Creep'" or Girl Talk)
Score = 0
The Pretenders' debut. Song-for-song, it smokes anything else they released
Score = 1
Lene lovich, Stateless
Score = 0
i think there's a huge difference between being annoying as fuck and having peeked .... i'm looking at you kanye
Score = 1
It's difficult to claim a band peaked with their first album when that band is still making music. While I agree that the Strokes' first record is their best they might come along with something surprisingly good. Who knows. A better list, and it seems the list they wanted to make, is a list of the top twenty sophomore slumps. (Oh, and Battle for Los Angeles gives Rage's debut a run for its money)
Score = 0
Seriously, I'm not a big Foo fan, but " The Color and the Shape" was awesome. And as for Weezer, Pinkerton > Blue.
Score = 4
Badly Drawn Boy should definitely be on this list. His first cd was brilliant. Everything afterwards paled in comparison.
Also, I don't think it is fair to list bands or artists that have only released 2 albums. It's too early to determine whether their debut will be their peak.
Score = 0
i think a band has to have at least 3 albums released to be able to judge
Score = 0
I peaked when I heard Anita Baker's debut "Rapture."
Score = 4
nice.....
Score = 0
Ryan Adams!
Score = -1
@dannyguts...do u live in a fucking cave? Have you heard Love is Hell? u gotta be fuckin me dude...theres not many better albums than Love is Hell period. discussion over
Score = -1
Art Brut
Score = 4
I got one...Toadies - "Rubberneck"....discuss....
Score = 0
Peter Bjorn and John
Score = 0
quick question jims - have you even heard their debut? i'll give you a hint, it's not "writer's block"
Score = 2
The Feelies "Crazy Rhythms"
Score = 0
Finally a list this year without radiohead on it
Score = 3
Ben Kweller
Score = 0
um, good call on Marshall Crenshaw, but Sundays and Supergrass and Sugarcubes? Wrong!! All bands surpassed their sturdy debuts with mega second albums. Supergrass did even better on their third.
Instead of those bands: REM, Seal, N.W.A, Mars Volta, Sanctuary, Spinal Tap :)
Score = -1
of Montreal.
Score = -4
@preston:
seriously, modest mouse? "long drive" was great, but "lonesome crowded west" was its superior in every way. & let's not forget "moon & antarctica", another masterpiece that completely departed from its predecessor.
Score = 3
@ zach: horses was def the most "important" release of patti smith's career, but i think she's put out too many high-quality albums since to get anywhere near this list. though entirely different in style, some of her "2nd phase" work -- most specifically "gone again" and "peace & noise" -- is just stunning, not to mention they arrived some 20-odd yrs afters her debut -- as opposed to, say, television, who pretty much gave it all on "marquee moon" and didn't have much left after -- though who can really blame them, seeing as how "mm" is one of the best rock records ever made? (that said, "adventure" is underrated, but obviously pales in comparison.) i think if we're looking at this as "bands whose first albums ruled and who never did anything all that special again," television might just take the cake. if we're looking at it like "their first album was best, even though they made some pretty good stuff later," we might have a very different list on our hands.
Score = 0
@ zach: horses was def the most "important" release of patti smith's career, but i think she's put out too many high-quality albums since to get anywhere near this list. though entirely different in style, some of her "2nd phase" work -- most specifically "gone again" and "peace & noise" -- is just stunning, not to mention they arrived some 20-odd yrs afters her debut -- as opposed to, say, television, who pretty much gave it all on "marquee moon" and didn't have much left after -- though who can really blame them, seeing as how "mm" is one of the best rock records ever made? (that said, "adventure" is underrated, but obviously pales in comparison.) i think if we're looking at this as "bands whose first albums ruled and who never did anything all that special again," television might just take the cake. if we're looking at it like "their first album was best, even though they made some pretty good stuff later," we might have a very different list on our hands.
Score = -1
Moby Grape. Big Brother and the Holding Company. Teenage Fanclub. Alanis Morrisette. The Doors.
Score = 1
Don't agree with Kanye or Rage AT ALL
Some additions:
Raekwon - OB4CL/ GZA - Liquid Swords/ Method Man - Tical
Big Star - #1 Record!!!!
The Avalanches - Since I Left You
DJ Shadow - Endtroducing
Score = 1
excellent addition w/ DJ Shadow....in his fairness, it's hard to follow up one of the best albums. ever.
Score = 0
Nah... I think "The Private Press" is pretty good. It seems a lot better now that it's had some distance since it's release and doesn't have the burden of fulfilling so much hype. I'd say it has only a few less great tracks than "Endtroducing". I could take or leave all the stuff with vocals, but the instrumentals are stellar. Much more orchestrated and thought out than before. And it's Shadow's method of operation to keep developing different aspects of his style with each release. Even "Endtroducing" was simply an extension of his previous work with break beats and sampling, as opposed to focusing on his DJ'ing skills, or focusing on formal theory.
But "Psyence Fiction" (though not a proper Shadow album) and "Pre-Emptive Strike" were pretty great, too. And the "Brainfreeze" series is considered classic in most DJ circles. And he's done so much production work for rappers before and since "Endtroducing", it's hard to really pinpoint that album as his "debut". I do agree that it was his best recording to date, though.
Score = 0
sorry that got posted twice. you know how things go on the internets . . .
Score = 0
I definitely don't agree with Kanye. It is very debatable if his first or second album is better. I think The Strokes is a rediculous inclusion also. They are just starting out. Why not put Artic Monkeys on the list then?? If it is just a list of groups that never matched their first album, you could definitely include the Pixies (even though I love all their albums). If it is a list of groups that peaked with their first album, number one should be The Sex Pistols (yes I know they never offically put out another album).
Score = 0
How can you say Avalanches when they've only put out one album? Definitely agree with DJ Shadow, though.
Score = 0
I didn't realize that so many people were blessed with the power of clairvoyance and can already tell me that bands like Vampire Weekend, Arcade Fire, PB&J, Art Brut, Bloc Party and CYHSY have already peaked. I was going to listen to their future output and make an informed decision, but thanks to all of you, now I don't have to. Unless, of course, I'm mistaken and you're not clairvoyant but are, instead, exteremly gifted in the art of talking out of your collective asses.
Score = 3
I think practically the whole list is wrong...
The only two they got right (in my opinion, of course) were Snoop Dogg and Wu Tang (and I love the Wu, in full disclosure...). But if the list is to achieve a point, you've GOTTA be able meet the two simple qualifications for such...:
(a) was the debut album actually the BEST of their career, or is it just the most sentimentally adored by qualified scenesters?
(b) Does the band have at least THREE full albums published? If no- then they can't qualify as there's been no career.
So, yeah, bands like The Pixies and Weezer are entirely more appropriate... just because Pinkerton is your favorite album (mine too) doesn't change the fact that they truly really actually DID peak on their blue album, in terms of fan loyalty, sales and plain old social familiarity.
Also, on top of that, you can't count B.i.G. He died before all his other albums were even released. I mean, Tupac could make a better candidate for the list, if that's what we're goin by....
PS - Number One totally should have been NICKELBACK. And preferably with a bullet.
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can't agree, Nickelback were never, ever good. They started off sucking and continued in a similar vein thereafter. I would agree on Wu-Tang, but not on Snoop, as 'Doggystyle' was actually not very good either. He was just getting way hyped at the time because of his work with Dre. In that manner, I would sub in NWA, as 'Straight Outta Compton' was classic, and subsequent work all blew. but that's just me...
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"Straight Outta Compton" wasn't NWA's first album. And Efil4Zaggin has better beats, anyway. It's just sorely missing Ice Cube.
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jeff buckley lol
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I know I'm gonna get slaughtered and flamed by all the uber-indies and tragically dedicated emo-types but I think just about that whole list is wrong. the only two they got right (in my opinion, of course) were Snoop Dogg and Wu Tang. If the list is to achieve a point, you've GOTTA fit two categories:
(a) was the debut album actually the BEST of their career, or is it just the most sentimentally adored by qualified scenesters?
(b) Does the band have at least THREE full albums published? If no- then they can't qualify as there's been no career.
So, yeah, bands like The Pixies and Weezer are entirely more appropriate... just because Pinkerton is your favorite album (mine too) doesn't change the fact that they truly really actually DID peak on their blue album, in terms of fan loyalty, sales and plain old social familiarity.
Also, on top of that, you can't count B.i.G. He died before all his other albums were even released. I mean, Tupac could make a better candidate for the list, if that's what we're goin by....
PS - Number One totally should have been NICKELBACK. And preferably with a bullet.
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maybe i'm the only one who liked television's "adventure" and "the blow up" and all those "eno" bootlegs and... oh nevermind
how about a little old school geek love for Soul Coughing. Ruby Vroom was really fun and innovative but the joke was a bit flat the next few times around.
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I'm disappointed in you people, 138 comments and no one has mentioned Liz Phair.
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I have to conclude, really, that whoever came up with this list really doesn't know very much about music in general. Nearly all of these suggestions are terrible. John Prine? Are you nuts? Biggie? What? Hilarious. The Sugarcubes? Very consistent band, they don't belong either. I nominate - Pearl Jam, NWA as I mentioned above in a response, and another I've seen mentioned here - what SHOULD be the most obvious choice of the bunch - Guns & Roses. I mean, if Guns & Roses aren't at the top of any such list as this - the whole thing has to be considered crap. There is no greater example of a massive debut which stands head and shoulders above all subsequent work than them. Nothing even comes close! People claiming that either Pavement or the Pixies belong on this list are nuts. Jesus and Mary Chain however, certainly belong, Psychocandy is miles better than anything else they ever did.
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also, bands or artists with only two albums don't count. Art Brut is annoying and their shtick was old before they were even well-known, but they don't belong. Neither does Arcade Fire, or certainly Stone Roses. They never should have made that 2nd album, but its silly to count them.
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`ooh, ooh, and Le Tigre also. all releases after their first are crap by comparison
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uhhhh feminist sweepstakes was way better than the first album if you ask me and this island was a good commercial album. le tigre? your serious? go home
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uhhhh feminist sweepstakes was way better than the first album if you ask me and this island was a good commercial album. le tigre? your serious? go home
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SUBLIME
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100 percent! agree
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Fuck you bitches who said Arcade Fire. And/or Pixies. You don't fuck with the Doolittle.
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Jade N actually had the best point - any artist that only has two "real" albums - like Biggie or Television - shouldn't be counted. You need a third album to judge if the band recovers or continues to fail. Therefore The Stone Roses are out, unless you want to count Squire's subsequent terrible string of bad ideas (I prefer to forget).
Guns N' Roses are so obviously #1 because of the distance they fell, from the greatness of the debut to the bloated mess they became.
Arguing over artists that have more than one great album - whether you call them "classic" is your business - should be handled with care, because this could go on for all time. I personally feel that Weezer, De La Soul, Oasis, Sunny Day, and a ton of other bands peaked with their debuts, but really, how much better is the Blue Album than Pinkerton, or 3 Feet High over De La is Dead?? I actually think De La's first four albums are great, and that SDRE's How It Feels to Be Something On is just as good as Diary and the Pink Album, but in different ways. Lists are great conversation starters, but don't ever assume your opinion is going to end them.
Likewise, the opposite is true. In it For the Money is at least almost as good as I Should Coco, if not better. And have you listened to Rage ATM's debut lately?? And are you out of high school?? It's completely dated. Morello's guitar playing that once sounded revolutionary now sounds chained to the 80's, especially Living Colour's Vernon Reid, while Zach's "raps" come off as teenage redux of Public Enemy (no accident that Reid played on PE's debut). Evil Empire, while uneven, has their best few singles, and Battle of Los Angeles is the best album - the rhythm section is miles ahead, Zach learned how to flow, and "Maria" and "War Within a Breath" pack the power of 1000 "Fuck you I won't do what you tell me"'s.
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Whoever said Big Star.... Of the hundred plus comments and the original list, that is by far the most ridiculous suggestion. And I have so many dirty words that I'd like to call you, but I'll let you use your imagination.
So my additions to the list are...
Lloyd Cole and the Commotions "Rattlesnakes"
Mission of Burma "Vs." (a little unfair but true)
Mos Def "Black on Both Sides" (unless you consider "Black Star" his debut, in which case he peaked with that)
The Misfits "Walk Among Us" (I'm allowed)
The dB's "Stands for Decibels"
Nick Cave "From Her to Eternity" (I'm probably alone on this)
Joe Jackson "Look Sharp"
BUT! most importantly, Devo.
I suppose I COULD put more thought into this, but I won't.
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Well, if anyone wants to be a little more specific about rap, Nelly has got to be the glaringly obvious choice here. Fell off the map and/or created nothing but garbage after Nellyville. Sublime shouldn't count, the dude died.
I'm tired, so tired, of having sex. So tired.
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Didn;t sublime release a couple of albums before whats-his-face died?
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pinkerton: best weezer.
what's the story morning glory: slightly better but much more highly acclaimed oasis.
how about architecture in helsinki?
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=cAncWH6UwMo
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@esarn,
Yeah Brad died, but 40z to Freedom is definately Sublime's best album, thus a peak.
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@esarn,
Yeah Brad died, but 40z to Freedom is definately Sublime's best album, thus a peak.
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I love coming to Stereogum so in every thread (even unrelated) I get people reminding me they hated Neon Bible.
It was a good album people. Get the fuck over it. Take your elitist ass to the corner and be alone with your Captain Beefheart tapes.
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Sonic Youth
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Me.
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I know this comment area's supposed to be for vitriol only, but legitimately how can anyone add Arcade Fire and Vampire Weekend (or the Shins for that matter)? They only have a handful of albums between 'em yet. Give 'em time...
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1) Must have at least three records (Gotta Wait another year, Franz Ferdinand!)
2) Must have debuted with a brilliant record, then released nothing else above "pretty good" (So, like, Pixies and Oasis don't qualify because, like, Morning Glory was fookin' great, even if it weren't as good as Definitely Maybe)
This list is for artists that you thought could be artistic icons for fifteen years, but then they didn't, and you feel kinda silly for thinking they might. You bought the second release, and you were disappointed. You probably didn't buy the third.
That said, Liz Phair, Violent Femmes, Snoop, Shins, Kings of Leon, and Gomez make my list.
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Liquid Skin was just as good, if not better, than Bring It On.
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i love how uncontested boston seems to be.
i do agree with the sublime call.
electric six, perhaps? it’s tough to say, because i really enjoyed their first album, but once the other stuff came out, i felt foolish for enjoying them in the first place; their clever irony was turned into immature blah.
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I'd have to agree...E6 just started losing it after Fire...then again, I thought for the most part they lost it halfway through fire...
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Boston shouldn't be there. They produced the highest selling debut in rock history (still!), how could *any* band be expected to peak like that again? But Boston had numerous high charting singles from later albums: 'Don't Look Back' 'Feeling Satisfied' 'We're Ready' and who doesn't know 'Amanda'? All those Top20 singles were from subsequent albums. They were always selling millions of albums, every release went platinum several times over. Just not 18 times platinum like the debut. I think it's sort of a technicality to include them.
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Nirvana's 'Bleach'?
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Nirvana's 'Bleach'?
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Destination Goa, volume 1.
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The Shins? HELLO? if u think u could add them here, u ahve seriously not heard their latest album....
and RADIOHEAD?RADIOHEAD?!?!?! so u think pablo honey is BETTER than OKCPU???
one word: OHMYGODNESS.
ppl need to listen to the labums first before putting their input here!
and agreed with the killers, bloc party thing.
and do i dare suggest Blur? i dont like any of the others album they released (except 13...it was okay)
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Oasis never peaked, they just sucked less on certain albums. And are you talking about Leisure for Blur? Because that was a god-awful album. Hell, Blur may have peaked with Think Tank in '03 (underrated!)
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I have to say Belle & Sebastian, the two albums (tigermilk and if you're feeling sinister) were recorded together and in the same year, so it counts as one album for me. and afther that period they sucked as hell. I mean... Dear Catastrophe Waitres... are you serious?
Other inclusions:
The Field Mice (Everything after 'Snowball' is lame)
I Am Kloot
Death Cab For Cutie (srsly. The first one is far better than any other dcfc-Album)
Rogue Wave
and probably
Morrissey... 'Viva Hate' is his best - for me... although... with "You Are The Quarry" he came pretty close to VH.
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There's certainly a bit of alphabetical laziness going on here, snoop doggy dog, sunny day real estate, strokes, sugarcubes, supergrass, and sundays (6 out of twenty? hmmm). I'd take both Supergrass (there's always a few good tracks on their albums, and their second album is every bit as good as their first) and Sundays off the list (their sadly infrequent subsequent albums maintain the same level of quality, though you wouldn't want to hear them all back to back for fear of an overdose of wistful).
Although I love all her work, I'd say Aimee Mann's first album is better than any since, but I think the slant of the list is to suggest an overrated début followed by rubbish.
I'd also bother to disagree with the Belle and Sebastiane basher, Boy With the Arab Strap (3rd album), Life Pursuit (latest) are both excellent, Dear Catastrophe Waitress, despite its awkward title track has cracking tunes Step Into My Office, Wrapped Up in Books and I'm A Cuckoo.
And who put in Amy Winehouse? Her second album is an improvement on her fine debut. Or didn't they release Frank in the states?
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What the F_ck!! Its a great one!! lol
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This list makes no senseand if iit did make sense G n R would be a no brainer. I agree with snoop dogg and 50. Wu's first probably their best along with NAS but both continually put out phenomnal records. Kanye in my opinion gets better each album. Thats that with rap. Anyone on this thread that wants to throw around the idea of arcade fire being on the list is obviously a fucking idiot. Rage on this list makes no sense whatsoever especially at #1. You could easily argue that Evil Empire was their best. This list is too random and unclear...
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Think hard before you reply, ladies and gentlemen, or you run the risk of looking like an absolute fool who has missed a blatant joke. This applies to lots and lots of people.
I'm gonna say Radiohead, The Beatles and Hanson.
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Shut the fuck up, Karl Rove.
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I don't understand how you could say Pablo Honey deserves to be on here.. as if it was good.
I wouldn't argue with The Strokes being #1....
And, out of the indie realm, Third Eye Blind... who could refute that
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Let's dig a little deeper...
Presidents of the United States of America (have realized I think 3 or 4 more albums since their self-titled debut)
Smashing Pumpkins
Ben Folds Five/Ben Folds
Toadies
Dave Matthews Band (regardless if anyone on this board likes any DMB, i still listen to under the table and dreaming on a sunny day)
Queens of the Stone Age (tho' debatable)
Superdrag
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@Mikey Mel -- I agree with you on the Toadies for sure, but QOTSA is (as you mention) definitely debatable. While Rated R is damn near perfect, I would have a difficult time placing it over Songs for the Deaf. C'mon man -- Dave Grohl is behind the kit on that one!
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Going to correct myself here -- My brain isn't awake yet. The self-titled QOTSA debut was awesome...But I don' think it beats Rated R OR Songs for the Deaf.
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Bryan, you're right QOTSA is definitely just a preference choice becuase I like the self-titled so much. Also, I totally forgot about Gish with the Smashing Pumpkins being their debut CD, so that one prob doesn't count either unfortunately. Got some others though
Badly Drawn Boy (gah every album after the first is so bad)
Kings of Convenience
N.E.R.D.
No Doubt
Phantom Planet
The Shins have been mentioned multiple times, but yea, huge letdown
Spacehog
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I completely disagree with Supergrass and Sunny Day Real Estate. In the case of the former, 'In It For the Money' was their finest hour, while SDRE peaked witih 'How It Feels to be Something On.'
And I really liked 'Late Registration', if it was a bit too long.
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There is no way Pearl Jam should be left off of this list. Ten always has been and will be their most defining album.
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Oh man, whoever said Third Eye Blind is a genius, I can;t believe I didn't remember them. Their self-titled debut is one of the most underrated albums of the nineties, and althougn their later albums don't suck, theyre nothgin comared to their s/t.
i still stand by clinic, btw
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