Brian Eno Is So Over Israel
This past Saturday (1/3) Brian Eno gave a fairly impassioned speech regarding his thoughts on the current Israel/Palestine situation during the Stop Gaza Massacre protest in London. He titled his speech "An Experiment in Provocation: Stealing Gaza," and his thoughts are clearly also a provocation. Maybe the most divisive thing he's done since producing Coldplay. He begins:
It's a tragedy that the Israelis - a people who must understand better than almost anybody the horrors of oppression - are now acting as oppressors. As the great Jewish writer Primo Levi once remarked "Everybody has their Jews, and for the Israelis it's the Palestinians". By creating a middle Eastern version of the Warsaw ghetto they are recapitulating their own history as though they've forgotten it. And by trying to paint an equivalence between the Palestinians - with their homemade rockets and stone-throwing teenagers - and themselves - with one of the most sophisticated military machines in the world - they sacrifice all credibility.The Israelis are a gifted and resourceful people who fully deserve the right to live in peace, but who seem intent on squandering every chance to allow that to happen. It's difficult to avoid the conclusion that this conflict serves the political and economic purposes of Israel so well that they have every interest in maintaining it. While there is fighting they can continue to build illegal settlements. While there is fighting they continue to receive huge quantities of military aid from the United States. And while there is fighting they can avoid looking candidly at themselves and the ruthlessness into which they are descending.
He continues along these lines, which you can hear for yourself in this video footage.
(Text and video via Daily Swarm.)
It should be noted that this was not a collaboration with David Byrne.
Posted at 3:41 PM by brandon in Video
Tags: Brian Eno
Please please PLEASE, people, don't get all dumb about this.
PLEASE! NO DUMB SIMPLISTIC COMMENTS ON THIS COMPLEX AND SERIOUS ISSUES.
That said, I agree with Eno 100%
Score = 7
Haukur gets all smug and self-righteous about not being dumb, and then says something like "this serious issues."
The only thing dumber than Haukur is unwanted political articles on a music website. I don't care about Brian Eno's politics any more than Roger Waters', Ani DiFranco's or Bono's.
Score = -62
Sir, the only thing dumb around here are people that like to measure an arguments validity based on something so trite as spelling errors or typos.
Such as yourself.
Score = 20
Sir, spelling errors and typos are a measure of your education (or lack thereof) ergo a direct reflection on the validity of your intelligence, vis a vis your argument.
Ergo, you are an irrelevant dumbass and everything you say is invalid.
Score = -84
So you believe a person's intelligence is in direct proportion to his or her education.
Sir, it is most obvious that you are the dumbass 'round these parts. I suggest you retire to your epic tower of intellect and contemplate the meaning of it all. Perhaps you can "spell it out" for the rest of us.
Dork.
Score = 16
Sir, I apologize, I didn't realize until you used the phrase "'round these parts" that you were an ignorant redneck from the south, and ergo of course you're not going to have a satisfactory education. It's not your fault you're an inbred backwoods retard; you never had a chance in life. Carry on then, Deliverance.
Score = -42
Thank you for clearly illustrating to everyone that ignorance exists outside the South; also, please stop over using the word ergo. It does not make you sound intellegent, although you clearly think that it does. This is a forum for intellegent conversation not pithless, moronic comments.
Score = 17
Holy shit, please stop calling each other "sir". It's really creepy.
Score = 19
Typos exist.
Score = 14
If you're going to criticize someone's grammar, I'd like to bring up the fact that your sentence suggests you don't understand the meaning of validity, which describes reasoning, logic or arguments, not one's mental capacity, at least not in a grammatically correct way.
Score = 1
is anybody else thinking that shutup just watched the matrix scene with the architect? cuz i am. haven't heard so many phrases like 'appropo' or 'vis a vis' or 'ergo' since i saw that flick.
Score = -1
I preferred it when he channeled his political outrage into co-writing Life During Wartime.
Score = 3
I just thought it was funny you said don't leave simplistic comments and then stated "I agree 100%"
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/ 7819492.stm
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...and "That said, I agree with Eno 100%" isn't dumb and simplistic?
Score = 0
Taking Gaza Strip (By Strategy)
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awesome.
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count yourself in for end of 2008 'best of' comments, you dirty hippie.
Score = 5
i don't get it. What does that mean?
Score = 0
it means you don't know your musical history, bucko.
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Taking Tiger Mountain (By Strategy) is a solo Eno album from the 70s.
Hopefully that's more helpful than what that guy said ^
Score = 7
Are they using Warm Jets?
Score = 1
Why must these people take the Gaza strip from Israel, a tiny piece of land for the Jewish people, when the Muslim and Arab world has the entire middle east? It's because they want this. They think the Jews are evil and they want to make a stand. The Muslims are welcome in every country in the massive land that makes up the middle east. The Jews have nowhere but this tiny land.
I also saw something about the Muslim people placing civilians in places where they know they will be bombed so they can drum up sympathy. I don't know if it's true, but it's possible. We can't believe the news because it's impossible for it to be unbiased.
Score = -66
There's more to this than just the physical dimensions of the land we're talking about.
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Why must these people take the Gaza strip from Israel, a tiny piece of land for the Jewish people, when the Muslim and Arab world has the entire middle east?
It's because they want this. They think the Jews are evil and they want to make a stand. The Muslims are welcome in every country in the massive land that makes up the middle east. The Jews have nowhere but this tiny land.
No, they don't have this tiny land --they stole it.
What does the Muslim and Arab world has to do with this?
The land belongs to the Palaistinians. The Israeli people are invaders.
Is it OK for someone to come and take your home from you (killing some of your family in the process) because your extented family has some houses where you can go to?
The Gaza Strip is one of the last places the Israelis have left to the Palestinians, i.e that have not stole yet.
Score = 0
"It should be noted that this was not a collaboration with David Byrne."
LOL PEOPLE ARE DEAD!
Score = -23
Kudos to Mr. Eno for speaking up on this issue. It's a shame that so many people in our country, particularly media and politicians, are so scared to speak up to what Israel is doing in Gaza. He drew a great analogy between previous the abuse of the Jewish people and Israeli abuse of Palestinians. He's saying what we all are thinking, hopefully.
Score = 11
This is such a short-sided view. This particular conflict has little to do with religion (Jewish and Muslim). It's about a UN/ rest of the world-recognized country going after people who have inhabited that land for centuries.
If religion indeed has anything to do with this (it certainly does to some extent), that is more of a reason that religion must be done away with. It has caused nothing but strife, conflict, and division since its inception.
Score = 3
Hitchens --- God is Not Great.
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The muslim people's greatest defense is playing on people's sympathies. Israel just wants to exist. They don't want to take away more of the Muslim world. They provoke Israel to show people that Israel is evil when it's just trying to fight to survive. Israel knows the world is against it and doesn't to give people reason to hate the Jews. I am sure that Israel is trying to discourage "Palestinians" from striking and inciting violence by showing that it won't work.
Score = -17
I can't say I agree with either side 100%. On one side you have an organization that is dedicated to the destruction of Israel and the Jewish 'occupation' of the holy land. On the other side you have a right wing government who is too eager to engage in military action even at the cost of civilian lives. Both sides are wrong. But what is the better solution for Israel? There has to be one, obviously. But peace talks are irrelevant if one side doesn’t want peace. That said, the attacks on Gaza don't seem to be primarily for the protection of the Israeli people and there obviously are other motives and factors going on. Brian Eno is a great producer and I can understand someone being anti-Zionist, but I think he paints the picture a little too one-sidedly. Really it’s a tragedy all around. And I feel kind of silly posting about it in the talkback section of a music blog. I hope that first poster gets his/her wish and no one posts anything dumb, simplistic, or insensitive.
Score = 30
Actually, the comparison between the Israeli/Palestinian relations and the WWII genocide of the Jews is entirely, entirely, entirely off base. The history between these two people is extremely complex, filled with horrors committed by both sides. The explanation of how the Palestinians got into their current situation is long, arguable, and complicated, as is the reasoning for why they are still there. There are valid arguments for both sides, and if somebody chooses only one they are being closed minded and are probably undereducated on the subject (as 99% of people are, myself included).
The Holocaust, however, is not a two sided issue. The treatment of the Jews, homosexuals, gypsies, and everybody else killed in Ghettos and concentration camps, is not two sided or subject to argument or discussion. There was a right side and a wrong side. These two situations are not comparable, and would never be brought up in the same sentence if there weren't Jews involved in both situations.
Pop stars are not scholars, and Stereogum is not a political blog. Frankly, I just don't think this is the right forum to discuss things like this.
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"There are valid arguments for both sides, and if somebody chooses only one they are being closed minded and are probably undereducated on the subject (as 99% of people are, myself included). "
Your ignorance shows. He's not comparing this to the Holocaust, he's saying that the Jewish people know what it's like to be subjects of persecution and now they are running the risk of being persecutors themselves. There's no reason to refuse shipments of medicine, food, and cut off Gaza's electricity (thereby crippling whatever probably sub-standard hospitals they do have). Israel has no leg to stand on. Only a handful (literally) of Israelis have been killed by Palestinian rocket fire in the past 5 years but Israel has already killed over 400 Palestinians and injured countless more. It's not fair or justified.
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"Your ignorance shows"
As does yours. To look at this situation ONLY in the context of the most recent problem is short sighted and ignorant. To cite the number of Israelis killed in this particular conflict and compare it the number of Palestinians killed in this particular conflict is to ignore over decades of complex history that got both people in this situation. For that matter, to put things in terms of numbers, even in context of the bigger picture, and declare a right and wrong side as a result of those numbers is ridiculous. Both sides are both right and wrong, BOTH sides have "a leg to stand on," and we are all ignorant in some way or another.
Blah blah blah, preach preach preach.
None of us have any real clue what we're talking about. Let's get back to commenting about whether we liked Animal Collective's new record. I liked it. So there.
Score = 17
i seriously like your comment.
Score = -3
Stereogum is not the proper forum to discuss issues as important as this one. Look back at the most discussed articles of 2008 if you need any reasons why it isn't. I love this site. I love studying politics and world events, but let's keep them seperate.
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the worlds.... they're colliding!!
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Somebody alert Powerman 5000!!!!
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Stereogum is killing Independent George!!
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(figuratively)
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This isn't the first time art and politics have crossed threads Alex.
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This was in reply:
"This is such a short-sided view. This particular conflict has little to do with religion (Jewish and Muslim). It's about a UN/ rest of the world-recognized country going after people who have inhabited that land for centuries.
If religion indeed has anything to do with this (it certainly does to some extent), that is more of a reason that religion must be done away with. It has caused nothing but strife, conflict, and division since its inception."
to this:
"Why must these people take the Gaza strip from Israel, a tiny piece of land for the Jewish people, when the Muslim and Arab world has the entire middle east? It's because they want this. They think the Jews are evil and they want to make a stand. The Muslims are welcome in every country in the massive land that makes up the middle east. The Jews have nowhere but this tiny land.
I also saw something about the Muslim people placing civilians in places where they know they will be bombed so they can drum up sympathy. I don't know if it's true, but it's possible. We can't believe the news because it's impossible for it to be unbiased."
Sorry
Score = 0
Right on, Mr. Eno.
He's also been involved in the ant-war movement in the UK, so I'm not surprised that he holds progressive views when it comes to the 'Palestine Question'.
Score = 1
I think I'm going to sit this one out.
Score = 23
God dammit! I don't care what any of you think - I will take this serious issue, pull my pants down, poop on it, eat the poop, poop it out again and use the turd on my wiener for masturbatory pleasures, lick my fingers, stick them in Al Frankens butthole, then in Hillary Clintons, create a new democratic poop bacterial infection, put my poop infected fingers in Brian Eno's mouth (and wiener hole), skin my dick and make the penis flesh a god damn blanket of love for Gary Coleman, Patrick Duffy, Step by Step, Steve Urkels ass, Barbara Walters, Dannis Quaid, his dick too.
Score = -31
Thank god for celebrities like you, Brian Eno. If it weren't for people like you using your use of fame to emphasize your points, I would have voted for McCain.
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Hi,
I'll start by saying i'm a 27 years old guy from isreal. i live what you read. now, let's move on...
on september 22nd 2005 israel comlpeted it's evacuation from gaza strip. including ALL settlements AND military bases, leaving an autonomy in gaza and surronding area. on June 2007 HAMAS (in a military coup) killed dozens of Fatah men (the palestinian government) and took over the Gaza strip. since then this terroist organizaion has fired hundreds of missles (yes, missiles. not stones not flowers - missiles - real live 40 kilometers in range missiles) to the surronding israeli cities.
Guys and girls. and of course Mr. Eno, pleae check your facts and think before you accuse anybody in anything.
Every country, and i mean every country in the world shold not, would not and does not accept this kind of violence towards it's citizens. NOT SOLDIERS - BUT CITIZENS. news flash - citizens are being killed in israel. this is not a matter of attacking military targets but a pure, simple attack on citizens. the next time you accuse an attacked person why he fires back, think about your mom being fired at EVERY DAY FOR YEARS. going to the shelter every day for a few hours, learining that her neighbor got kllled on her way from the grocery. finding out about your scholl buddy's new plastic arm
think about that and what you would have done to the person that fired at them.
I'm going back to listen to the new bronx cd. and you should too. it's awesome.
Score = 31
Well said, ariel80s.
Yes, the history of these two peoples is long and complex. But can any impartial person really believe that Israel would not lay down its arms and live in peace if Hamas were to do the same? Israel is consistently acting in self-defense. Hamas is consistently acting from a racist hatred of all Jews everywhere and the desire to destroy Israel -- a hatred and a desire that are widespread in the Muslim world. The only reason that anyone is even still alive in Gaza is that Israelis have a conscience--they don't want to kill any more non-combatants than necessary. If Hamas had access to the same weapons as Israel, they would use them to demolish every Jew they could find, women and children included.
Score = -1
It appears you are one of the very few who can speak with any authority on the issue. Most others here-including Eno- are just simply talking out their arses. A country the size of Belize is SOOO big, bad, and evil when it fights back after being pummeled with 6000 indiscriminate rocket attacks AFTER they GAVE BACK THE GAZA STRIP they were accused of OCCUPYING for so long? Good God it is so preposterous it defies imagination!!!!
Score = -2
"I'm going back to listen to the new bronx cd. and you should too. it's awesome."
Speaks volumes. Luckily the rest of the world won't merely turn up their i-pods. This isn't about politics. Two wrongs don't make a right. If they went in and specifically took out HAMAS leaders and resources, sure. But when you shoot the human shield to ensure a kill-shot of the terrorist, you lose ground morally and strategically. And when you have an Israeli MP calling to Nuke Gaza, Christians and Arabs believing Israel will be the focus point for Armageddon, and the US suddenly realizing that 'hey they really aren't all that different when you think about it', you come to realize that no good will come of this. None.
Hope for a miracle. But reality has a definite liberal bias. No one will see 'eye for an eye' as an enlightened response. Especially when it's billions of dollars in US military might vs rocks, and super inaccurate missiles purchased off of the Military-Industrial Complex's version of Craigslist. 900 dead Palestinians against 12 dead Israelis? And that's counting a handful killed by IDF friendly fire?
Boggle.
Score = 2
Every country, and i mean every country in the world shold not, would not and does not accept this kind of violence towards it's citizens. NOT SOLDIERS - BUT CITIZENS. news flash - citizens are being killed in israel. this is not a matter of attacking military targets but a pure, simple attack on citizens. the next time you accuse an attacked person why he fires back, think about your mom being fired at EVERY DAY FOR YEARS. going to the shelter every day for a few hours, learining that her neighbor got kllled on her way from the grocery. finding out about your scholl buddy's new plastic arm think about that and what you would have done to the person that fired at them.
====
They are not citizens. They are thieves --occupying land that's not theirs.
Those "citizens" came their since 1948 and killed, slaughtered and drove the Palaistinian people out of their homes and country to form the so-called "state of Israel".
Score = -1
like virtually all musicians, eno is an idiot when it comes to anything other than music.
an ill-informed idiot at that.
home-made rockets. geeeez.
he's been watching too much October Sky.
anti-semitism, the new trend in indie?
I hope not.
Score = -25
Selling records and being educated on world issues are not mutually exclusive. Just like I'm sure you work at Taco Bell/ Blockbuster/Public Storage but you still educate yourself about world events (or perhaps you don't). That is such a weak argument to dismiss a musician's thoughts as bullshit just because they have a platform from which to speak. It might sound a bit self-righteous (not to me, though) but you can't dismiss him as an "ill informed idiot".
Score = 13
Sure I can. I did.
Eno's comments betray a profound ignorance of both facts and history. Not sure why you are surprised. Most pop/rock musicians, with a few exceptions, stop their education fairly early on, and weren't that good at it to begin with.
A logically constructed and well-reasoned argument, supported by facts, could be made in support of the proposition that israel is mistaken in its current offensive against hamas. But that's hardly what eno is doing in his publicity-whorish comments. it gets him some press, plays well to the uk and european press, and distracts from the failure of his david byrne collaboration, but beyond that his comments are banal.
Score = -17
You lost me at "failure of his David Byrne collaboration."
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"anti-semitism, the new trend in indie?
I hope not"
Please. Getting melodramatic makes you look retarded.
Score = 8
I agree with Dean Wermer. Anti-semitism would be a terrible trend in indie rock. Anti-semitism has terrible lyrics and is hard to dance to. Eno should stick to less controversial activism like protecting baby seals from clubbing.
Score = 16
if coldplay didn't suck s**t, I would have read past line 1 of this Eno's stance.
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So you disagree with Mr. Eno. That's fine.
Personally, I disagree with Israel's treatment of the situation, and echo the concerns of Eno. Does this make me an anti-Semite?
Does a disagreement with a government's actions immediately lead to a hatred of the religion it is affiliated with, or the people within the country? I think not.
Please let's separate disagreement from prejudice, and stop throwaway accusations. It is only Stereogum, but let's be dignified about this.
Score = 15
I love that any criticism of Israel automatically makes someone anti-semitic. Ignorant accusations like that allow AIPAC to manipulate Congress into sending billions of dollars to Israel every year, regardless of behavior.
Score = 12
Very funny. Very pathetically funny and true. Shut up Eno and get back in the studio where you belong.
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The Jews did 9/11. FACT.
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Making comments like that on a blog won't get you the attention that you are obviously craving. FACT.
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dumb c*nt
your last name illustrates everything that's wrong with this world.
just look at the FBI's top 20 most wanted list. i am sure they committed all crimes with your last name in mind....
eno is clearly misinformed. the part about 'provocation' made me laugh. over 6000 rockets fired in 3 yrs - is that not provocation?????
let's dig a bit deeper: why do they fire said rockets?
a) bc they were handed a vacated gaza
b) bc their charter dictates the eradication of israel
c) bc they think rocket roulette is a new sport
d) all of the above
facts are facts. btw, eno did a lousy job with the last coldplay record. hope no line on the horizon is better...
Score = -30
Who let YOU back in the US??!
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This is a great place for this kind of discussion because it gives a different audience a chance to think about these issues using language that they can relate to.
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Eno is not saying Israelis citizens do not have the right to live in peace. He only says facts : Israel has some of the most sophisticated war "and security" industry in the world, topped only by the USA, and it is applying it full force to an underdeveloped and impoverished strip of land being denied access to international trade and a lot of basic goods for years.
Of course there are innocent civilians dying in both side, and there has been for years, and of course the Hamas is a terrorist, fundamentalist organisation who's commited to apply retrograde so-called "islamic" law on the Gaza people and ruthlessly fight Israel.
But starving, unemployed and desperate third-world people are not likely to make terrorism stop by seeing their relatives murdered by bomb, anymore than vietnamese farmers were attracted to the western side when their forest were burnt by napalm in the 70s. Quite the contrary.
Israel has a larger share of guilt here. They could have stepped back to the 1967 legal borders 20 or 30 years ago. They could have opted to accomodate the tens of thousands of Russian immigrant of the 90s in their UN recognized lands and not settle them in Palestinian Occupied Territories to create a de facto situation where peace in not possible anymore. They could have choosen not to asphyxiate completely the palestinian economy, and render the life of hard-working simple citizen impossible by submitting them to dozens of checkpoint every day to go to work.
It's too late. The only hope we can have is that this unwinnable, un-endable war, does not propagate to countries where Jews and Muslims live in peace.
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While I personally am not an expert on this history or current events of Israel you have to admit that the guy makes an effective and eloquent point.
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What's with the trend with throwing around the word antisemite? If anything, it's a seriously laden word, not to be taken lightly. If I disagree with Israeli policies, does that make me a jew hater?
Score = 18
It's ironic that the UN gave Israel to the Jews, but when the Israelis fight for the land they were legally given, the whole world condemns them.
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Who the FUCK is the damn UN to be "LEGALLY" giving away land/ dividing territory? I wonder what other nations in the area and the Palestinians who were living there had to say about the UN "giving" land out. Granted, the Jewish people suffered at the Holocaust but that doesn't mean they get free land just because Palestinians never drew up the lines themselves.
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Hello.... IT'S RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALISM. THEY HAVE CONFLICTING PROPHECIES. THEY'RE BOTH WRONG... THE SYMPTOM---- ENDLESS WAR. DUH!
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Israel is defending itself in the same way that ANY other country would if it was attacked the way they are. BRUTE FORCE UNTIL IT STOPS. It is terrible and tragic but it is the only way for them to REALLY put and end to a group that does not want peace, but to see Israel totally gone. If you are getting upset over the Palestenians condition s in Gaza, well then why didn't any Arab countries (Egypt) them open their borders to their arab brothers? Because all the other Arab countries hate Hamas just as much and want Israel to take them out.
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It's too bad about the loss of civilian life but I couldn't be happier about seeing Hamas take it in the ass. Larry David said it best when he said there's a lot of meshugana Muslims running around out there. Gotta weed out the troublemakers.
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Larry Dickman, your (nick)name is well-deserved, and that is some fucked-up fascistic talk. People are not weed to be exterminated.
And to truth, just because other nations would react the same doesn't make it right. "brute force untill it stops"? Fighting violence with more violence, or if you will, waging war on terror, is equivalent to pouring fuel on fire. Really clever boys, keep on pouring till it goes out.
Score = 8
Totally agree. What an entitled, condescending view that Palestinians are trouble-makers. Hamas is just a patsy. Israel has been wanting to bomb Palestine and got a great excuse to do so when Hamas came into power.
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You're not going to change my mind on this buddy. I've seen Steven Spielberg's Munich 10 times and I kinda enjoy seeing Arab shitbirds get their ass kicked by Jews.
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Way to go, dickman!
Racism just won't die.
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i posted about this on williamsboard the other day
yeah, everyone in that region of the world has to buy some buddha machines or eno records stat and chill the fuck out (yeah right, they just love to continue the endless fighting and thereby screwing all their children who are the ones that get indoctrinated to perpetuate decades old grudges, keep the fingers and missiles pointing y'all, it's only the future generations that suffer more right?)
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If anyone is interested, Ive always since the movie Munich, as an "entertaining" way to understand the conflict. It is sad to say so, but this might never end. . .
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The greatest all-time crime against humanity; ROXY MUSIC
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um lolwat? It's the ottoman empire's fault because they decided to side with Germany, twice. Guess what? when you enter a war you subject yourself to losing land. They sided with the loser, tough shit.
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Yes, I wish celebrities would focus on other issues, non-political. They rarely seem to know what they're talking about.
If France were lobbing missiles over to the UK targeting civilians (Nothing against France. This is purely an example.), I hope the UK would respond militarily as Israel has done. I also hope that they would continue their operation until the problem was taken care of, no matter how long it took, and how much military might it took.
No country can put up with rockets being fired over their borders to kill their citizens. And, in this case, for Israel to put an end to these threats, it's going to take a long, serious military response.
The primary job of government is to protect its citizens.
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I was right there with you, Brian, all the way up to the point when you referred to yourself as a "middle class English person." Kinda lost some credibility there.
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Dirty Jew!
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I'm not be a big supporter of everything Israel is doing in this situation, but what if your neighbours (Hamas, a terrorist group) started shooting rockets into your country, and have been doing so for a very long time? You'd probably defend yourself. That doesn't mean I'm all gun ho on all of the innocent Palestinians being killed, but aren't their deaths the fall out of Hamas being elected? I may be wrong, but I think the (Muslim (there are Christian Palestinians in Gaza)) Palestinians elected Hamas as the ruling party.
This problem goes back thousands of years anyway, nothing is going to end it any time soon.
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The problem I have is the scope of Israel's response, not necessarily that they have responded. Same thing happened in Lebanon in 06.
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I love the "same thing happened in 2006" part. Criticize them for overreacting... when apparently the previous measures weren't enough and did nothing to stop Hamas from firing rockets into Israel's southern cities.
On the one hand, Israel has an obligation to defend itself and her citizens. On the other hand, no nation has the right to slaughter hundreds of innocents because you probably got a couple dozen terrorists in the mix too.
Maybe Obama will negotiate a settlement. I sincerely hope so. But Clinton's Oslo Accords didn't have to deal with Hamas...
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Typo! I know.
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http://www.newstatesman.com/middle-east/2009/01/pilger-israel-gaza-palestine
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These idiots have been fighting for about three times as long as I've been alive, I know innocent people are dying, but am I the only one - after all this time - desensitized enough to truly and genuinely not give a fuck?
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My name is Ron Golan and I am an Israeli citizen living in the southern city of Sderot.
My home town is being bombed by Grad missiles shot out of the Gaza strip for the past eight (let me repeat that - EIGHT) years. There is no country in the world that would stand for this. We made the awful choice of sending our sons to fight in the Gaza strip, to finally change this reality.
I'm not trying to speak on behalf of my country so I'll just speak for myself - all i want is to stop the bombing of our homes, and am happy we finally struck back like any sane country would have done eight years ago.
so yeah mr Eno, we're just like the Nazis.
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The Western media never reports on little things like a few measly thousand missile attacks on Israel by HAMAS. Ergo, they never happened. Ditto on HAMAS' penchant for hiding/firing their weapons in civilian areas.
Also, there's Eno's question of proportionality, the rock-throwers vs. the modern Israeli military. If the Western Leftist Elite know one thing, it's how to win wars. And the way they say to win wars is proportionality. The Palis fire little rockets into Israel, Israel should only fire little rockets back, ensuring never-ending... tit-for-tat... status quo... violence. Hmmmmmmm. Maybe not.
I hope the last civilian killed over there is the last, but I just haven't figured out how anyone can negotiate with a group which teaches their children that one group should be exterminated. I'd just remind Eno of the old adage: If the Palestinians lay down their arms, there would be peace. If the Israelis lay down their arms, they would be pushed into the sea.
Score = 1
That track "Help Me Somebody" always makes be think of a local news team on crack;Heraldo Rivera on a wild goose chase ...(not the words just the music).
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this guy is an idiot.....why the fuck did he have to say "middle class people like me"??.....probably he´ll go back to his mansion to scratch his balls while the conflict he yacks about goes on....and on....and on.
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You clearly have no understanding of British class politics. Eno was referring to his class background NOT the amount of money he has/does not have.
Score = 10
It's funny, there is an echoing sentiment that these sort of issues shouldn't be discussed in a music blog, yet everybody want's to give their two cents on the subject. I don't see the problem of discussing this in a music blog. It brings attention to the subject, and I think as a whole most readers of this blog are educated and thoughtful enough to discuss something like this.
Score = 5
Maybe they should use Oblique Strategies.
Score = 2
...."Emphasize repetitions"...
Score = -1
"...but what if your neighbours (Hamas, a terrorist group) started shooting rockets into your country, and have been doing so for a very long time?"
Typical short-sighted response. Have you ever considered WHY they've been launching rockets? For fun? Because Israel continues building illegal settlements, bulldozing Palestinian houses, and leaving military forces to police the ghetto that is Gaza -- which they've been literally starving into submission for many months now.
To paraphrase Jon Stewart: If my neighbor started shooting rockets at me...I'd probably stop forcing them to live in my outhouse.
Score = -2
a. Of course us Israelies bulldoze houses for fun. It's just a hobby completely unrelated to said house being used as a ammunition silo for a terrorist group that loves hiding behing children.
b. There are no settlements in the Gaza strip. The israeli pulled out of the Gaza strip in 2005, a process that cost millions of dollars and ruined many Israeli lives (forced by their government to to leavee their houses and farms and move to caravans in the middle of nowhere).
c. There are also no military forces policing the Gaza strip.
..And still our homes - civilian homes - are being bombed by missiles every single day for three years straight. Finally reacting against an organization that was elected domcratically to govern Gaza and is responsible for this obviously makes us Nazis (can't even tell you how offensive and offbase that comparison is for any jew, let alone someone whose lost most of his family tree in the holocaust).
Still, basing your political outlook on whatever was on the Daily Show this week almost makes you sound like you know what the hell you're talking about, so go ahead.
Score = 7
I don't think my response was short-sighted, maybe a little typical though. I'm just asking, what would you do? I didn't say let's support Israel in every military offensive (or defensive) either.
All Israeli settlements are in the West Bank anyway. Ariel Sharon forced the Israelis out of Gaza in '05.
I like Jon Stewart a lot, but he's got tunnel vision in the way he views things (as people on both sides of this discussion have). If you didn't have to paraphrase him, what would you say?
Score = 0
You should separate Hamas from Palestinians, Israel is fighting Hamas which is firing rockets into Israel, that's why most of the Palestinians in the west bank aren't protesting too much - they know Hamas has brought this on Gaza in the name of extreme Islam.
With that said I think the Palestinians should have their own country leaving side by side with Israel, firing rockets won't get them their.
By the way a man like Brian Eno would have found him self executed or in Jail under the fanatic Muslim rule of the Hamas. Just ask all the Phatach guys who got forced out of Gaza ,Jailed or Killed (I guess you can't ask them...) by Hamas since they took over Gaza.
Score = 4
THE GAZA STRIP WAS NEVER ISRAEL'S TO GIVE UP IN THE FIRST PLACE. they were there illegally.
THEY SHOULD HAVE EVACUATED DECADES BEFORE 2005, BUT CHOSE NOT TO.
TO THOSE IN ISRAEL RIGHT NOW: go ANDHIDE BEHIND YOUR NEW WALL
Score = -1
The Facts about Israel's War on Gaza
12.31.2008 | LATEST UPDATED Formatted Original (.doc)
By Adam Sheets
It is crucial that one has her/his facts straight about Israel's war on Gaza. What events brought about this dreadful situation? What needs to be done to make it stop? These questions will be answered in the content of this article, using concrete facts from a variety of news sources.
Let's first investigate the recent cease-fire between Israel and Hamas. The cease-fire began in June 2008. The terms were as follows:
1. Israel would drastically reduce its military blockade of Gaza.
2. Israel would halt all military incursions into Gaza.
3. Hamas would halt all rocket attacks into Israel.
From the outset of the cease-fire, Israel did little to ease its military blockade. As a result, Gazans continued to suffer from a lack of food, fuel, financial aid, electricity, clean water, medical supplies, and more. This has been, inarguably, an attack on innocent Palestinian civilians.
* Gaza faces a humanitarian "catastrophe" if Israel continues to prevent aid reaching the territory by blocking crossing points, the head of the main UN aid agency for the Palestinians said on Friday ... Israel had restricted goods into Gaza despite the truce, which calls on militants to halt rocket attacks in return for Israel easing its embargo on the territory ... Israel also held up deliveries of European Union-funded fuel for the power plant, which generates about a third of the electricity consumed by Gazans... Ailments associated with insufficient food were surfacing among the impoverished coastal strip's 1.5 million population, including growing malnutrition.
--Haaretz Israel News, Nov. 21, 2008 [1]
* A former UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Mary Robinson, has told the BBC she was taken aback by the "terrible" conditions in Gaza on a recent visit. Mrs Robinson said it was "almost unbelievable" that the world did not care about what she called "a shocking violation of so many human rights" ... Israel tightened a blockade on Gaza after Hamas took control there in 2007 ... "Their whole civilisation has been destroyed, I'm not exaggerating," said Mrs Robinson ...Israel says the blockade, under which it has allowed little more than basic humanitarian aid into Gaza, is needed to isolate the militant group and stop it and other militants from firing rockets into Israel. Israel came to a truce with Palestinian groups in June this year, but Mrs Robinson said this had had little effect on people's lives and "just brought a bitter taste in the mouth".
--BBC News, Nov. 4, 2008 [2]
* The UN in the Gaza Strip says it will run out of food aid in two days unle Israel's blockade - which it describes as "shameful and unacceptable" - eases. The UN refugee agency UNWRA, which distributes food to half of Gaza's 1.5m people, called the blockade "a physical as well as a mental punishment". Israel is now allowing a limited amount of fuel acro the border, but it is still blocking food deliveries ... In a statement, UNWRA spokesman Christopher Gunne said food distribution operations would end on Thursday unle Israeli authorities allowed deliveries of wheat, luncheon meat, powdered milk and cooking oil without delay. "This is both a physical as well as a mental punishment of the population - of mothers and parents trying to feed their children - who are being forced to live hand to mouth," he said ... "It is a further illustration of the barbarity of this inhuman blockade." ... "It is also shameful and unacceptable that the largest humanitarian actor in Gaza is being forced into yet another cycle of crisis management," Mr Gunne added.
--BBC News, Nov. 11, 2008 [3]
* International aid agencies, including the International Committee of the Red Cross, have said virtually no medical supplies were reaching Gaza. --Haaretz Israel News, Nov. 9, 2008 [14]
* The UN has no more food to distribute in the Gaza Strip, the head of relief efforts in the area has warned. John Ging said handouts for 750,000 Gazans would have to be suspended until Saturday at the earliest, and called Gaza's economic situation "a disaster". Israel earlier denied entry to a convoy carrying humanitarian supplies... The United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) distributes emergency aid to about half of Gaza's 1.5m population. "We have run out [of food aid] this evening," said Mr Ging, UNRWA's senior official in Gaza. "Unle the crossing points open... we won't be able to get that food into Gaza," he told Reuters news agency ... Also on Thursday, Israel refused permission for a group of senior European diplomats to visit the coastal enclave. It has also prevented journalists, including those from the BBC, from entering the territory.
--BBC News, Nov. 13, 2008 [4]
* Since June 2007, Israel has allowed little more than basic humanitarian aid to enter the Gaza Strip. Many there hoped that policy would change, five months ago, when Hamas and Israel agreed to a truce. But while there were some increases in the amount of aid allowed in, Israel's strict restrictions on the movement of goods and people into and out of Gaza largely remained... Serious fuel shortages have led to widespread power cuts acro Gaza City. That, in turn, has caused problems in pumping water to homes, and sewage to treatment plants. Israel is preventing many aid workers, and all journalists from entering Gaza too ... "I never thought we would see days like this," says Monther Shublak, head of Gaza's water authority. "The water system was severely stretched even before this crisis, but now, things are much worse. For the last four days, around 40% of people in Gaza City have had no acce to running water in their homes at all." ... "But we are putting all of our resources into sewage pumping. The health consequences of that system totally failing are too worrying to think about, but it could happen unle things change."
--BBC News, Nov. 20, 2008 [5]
* Israel has refused to allow cash to enter Gaza in recent weeks to ratchet up pressure on the ruling Hamas militant group. With the supply of currency dwindling, banks have limited withdrawals over the past two weeks, and some have posted signs telling customers they cannot take out any more money ... The United Nations halted cash handouts to 98,000 of Gaza's poorest residents last week, and economists and bank officials warn that tens of thousands of civil servants won't be able to cash their paychecks next month ... "No society can operate without money, but that's the situation we are reaching in Gaza," said Gaza economist Omar Shaban ... Israel and Egypt have restricted movement through Gaza's border crossings since the Islamic militants of Hamas violently seized control of the coastal territory in June 2007. Since then, closures have been eased or tightened, depending on the security situation. But even in quiet times, when Gaza militants refrained from firing rockets at Israeli border towns, only limited shipments of food, medicine and commercial goods were allowed in... Shlomo Dror, an Israel Defense Ministry spokesman, questioned the seriousne of the currency shortage. "We are used to the Palestinians inventing things and we are looking into their claim," he said.
--Washington Post, Nov. 24, 2008 [6]
Despite the intense blockade against Gazan civilians, the cease-fire held until November 4, 2008. On that date, the Israeli military made an incursion into Gaza and killed six Palestinians. The Israeli government sought to justify these actions, saying that they suspected these Palestinians of plotting to kidnap Israeli soldiers. Palestinian fighters responded to the attack by launching rockets into Israel. Thus began the unraveling of the cease-fire.
* At least six Hamas militants have been killed after Israel's first incursion into the Gaza Strip since June's truce. Israel said its troops had uncovered a tunnel along central Gaza's frontier which had been dug by militants intending to abduct Israeli soldiers. Clashes ensued when troops were sent to thwart the threat, Israel said. One militant died, Palestinian reports say. A subsequent Israeli air strike on Hamas positions in southern Gaza killed at least five fighters, medics said. An Israeli army spokeswoman said the air strike targeted militants who had fired mortars at Israeli forces... Tuesday evening's fighting broke out after Israeli tanks and a bulldozer moved 250m into the central part of the coastal enclave, backed by military aircraft, says the BBC's Aleem Maqbool in Ramallah. Residents of central Gaza's el-Bureij refugee camp said a missile fired from an unmanned Israeli drone flying over the area injured another three Hamas gunmen. A truce between the two sides had held since it was declared on 19 June. Israel said the raid was not a violation of the ceasefire, but rather a legitimate step to remove an immediate threat.
--BBC News, Nov. 5, 2008 [7]
* An Israel Air Force air strike in the southern Gaza Strip killed at least five militants and wounded several others on Tuesday, Palestinians said. Earlier, Israel Defense Forces soldiers killed a Hamas gunman and wounded two others on Tuesday in the first armed clash in the Gaza Strip since a ceasefire was declared in the territory in June, Palestinian medics said ... An Egypt-brokered cease-fire agreement between Israel and the Gaza Strip was signed earlier this year, and went into effect on June 19. The IDF argued that the raid did not constitute a violation of the cease fire, but instead was a legitimate step to remove an immediate threat to Israel from Gaza, which is controlled by the Islamic militant group Hamas.
--Haaretz Israel News, Nov. 5, 2008 [8]
* Two weeks ago, an already fragile humanitarian situation resulting from the mounting effects of months of shortages, saw a dramatic downturn. The fighting resumed, with an Israeli army incursion into Gaza and a retaliatory barrage of militant rocket fire.
--BBC News, Nov. 20, 2008 [5]
As the cease-fire began to crumble, the violence from both sides intensified. Efforts to redeem the cease-fire ultimately failed.
* Palestinian armed groups in Gaza remain committed to a truce with Israel if Jerusalem reciprocates, Hamas's Gaza leader said on Friday, even as militants launched more attacks from the coastal territory ... "I have met with armed factions over the past two days and they stated their position clearly: they are committed to calm as long as (Israel) abides by it," said Ismail Haniyeh, Hamas's most senior representative in Gaza. --Haaretz Israel News, Nov. 21, 2008 [9]
* Hamas announced on Sunday that militant groups in Gaza have agreed to cease cross-border attacks if Israel opens crossings into the coastal territory, Ma'an news reported.
--Haaretz Israel News, Nov. 24, 2008 [10]
* After expressing contradictory positions on Sunday, Hamas' leadership on Monday adopted a united stance: The cease-fire with Israel, which expires this Friday, will not be extended ... Hamas' spokesman in the Gaza Strip, Ayman Taha, said the movement had concluded that there was no point in extending the truce "as long as Israel isn't abiding by its terms" - though he added that talks on continuing the cease-fire were still taking place. Specifically, Taha said, Israel was supposed to have expanded the truce to the West Bank - something Hamas demanded but Israel in fact never promised - and opened the Gaza border crossings, and "this hasn't happened."
--Haaretz Israel News, Dec. 16, 2008 [11]
Following the end of the cease-fire, Israel moved closer to an invasion of the territory. The Israeli government claimed that this was the only remaining option to eliminate rocket attacks from Gaza. However, as cited in the sources above, this was clearly not the case. Israel had failed to abide by the terms of the cease-fire. For the overwhelming majority of the six-month truce, Israel had refused to ease its military blockade of Gaza to any significant degree. In addition, it was the initial violator of the cease-fire when it sent tanks and aircraft into Gaza and killed six Palestinians on November 4, 2008. In fact, there is evidence that Israel was planning to strike Gaza even while the cease-fire was still in effect.
* Barak told the assembled lawmakers that the defense establishment spent months preparing for the Gaza operation.
--Haaretz Israel News, Dec. 29, 2008 [16]
In the interest of peace, Hamas, and especially Fatah, have firmly established that they are willing to participate in negotiations that are based on internationally recognized borders and rights.
* On June 6, 2006, Haniyeh met Dr. Jerome Segal of the University of Maryland in the Gaza Strip ... At the end of the meeting, Haniyeh dictated a short message he asked Segal to transmit to President Bush ... In the second paragraph, Haniyeh laid out the political platform he maintains to this day. "We are so concerned about stability and security in the area that we don't mind having a Palestinian state in the 1967 borders and offering a truce for many years," he wrote ... Haniyeh called on Bush to launch a dialogue with the Hamas government. "We are not warmongers, we are peace makers and we call on the American government to have direct negotiations with the elected government," he wrote ... In his own letter, Segal emphasized that a state within the 1967 borders and a truce for many years could be considered Hamas' de facto recognition of Israel. He noted that in a separate meeting, Youssuf suggested that the Palestinian Authority and Israel might exchange ambassadors during that truce period. This was not the only covert message from Hamas to senior Bush administration officials. However, Washington did not reply to these messages and maintained its boycott of the Hamas government.
--Haaretz Israel News, Nov. 14, 2008 [12]
* The Hamas leader in Gaza, Ismail Haniyeh, said on Saturday his government was willing to accept a Palestinian state alongside Israel within the 1967 borders ... Haniyeh told his guests Israel rejected his initiative ... He said the Hamas government had agreed to accept a Palestinian state that followed the 1967 borders and to offer Israel a long-term hudna, or truce, if Israel recognized the Palestinians' national rights... In response to a question about the international community's impression that there are two Palestinian states, Haniyeh said: "We don't have a state, neither in Gaza nor in the West Bank. Gaza is under siege and the West Bank is occupied. What we have in the Gaza Strip is not a state, but rather a regime of an elected government. A Palestinian state will not be created at this time except in the territories of 1967." ... "Our conflict is not with the Jews, our problem is with the occupation," Haniyeh said.
--Haaretz Israel News, Nov. 9, 2008 [14]
* The Palestinian Authority has placed a full-page advert in Israel's Hebrew newspapers to promote an Arab peace plan first proposed in 2002. The Saudi-backed initiative offers Arab recognition of Israel in exchange for an end to Israel's occupation of land captured in the 1967 Arab-Israeli war. It also proposes what it calls a just solution for Palestinian refugees. The Israeli government has noted "positive aspects" in the plan but has not formally accepted it ... Peace Now, and Israeli campaign group, welcomed the publication of the adverts. "On behalf of a majority of Israeli citizens who support peace with the Palestinian people on the basis of a two state solution - we embrace the Arab Peace Initiative and urge both governments to endorse it and negotiate the final status agreement in its spirit," a statement from the group said ... The text reads: "Fifty-seven Arab and Muslim countries will establish diplomatic relations with Israel in exchange for a full peace accord and the end of the occupation."
--BBC News, Nov. 20, 2008 [13]
* U.S. President-elect Barack Obama proclaimed himself "very impressed" with the Arab League's peace plan when he discussed it with President Shimon Peres during a brief visit to Israel four months ago, Peres said Tuesday ... The plan, originally proposed by King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia in 2002 and later adopted by the Arab League, states that Israel would receive full relations with the entire Arab world in exchange for a full withdrawal from all the territory it captured in 1967, including East Jerusalem, plus a solution to the refugee problem. The Bush Administration has said it views the plan positively, but its own road map peace plan and the understandings reached at last year's Annapolis summit have served as the basis of its diplomatic program.
--Haaretz Israel News, Nov. 19, 2008 [15]
Since Israel began its strike on Gaza, 4 Israelis and 391 Palestinians have been killed [18]. The White House said that Israel will cease its attack when Hamas has agreed to a truce. Hamas said they are open to any cease-fire propositions. A cease-fire has been proposed, but Israel rejected this offer.
* "In order for the violence to stop, Hamas must stop firing rockets into Israel and agree to respect a sustainable and durable ceasefire," White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe said.
--BBC News, Dec. 29, 2008 [17]
* Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has rejected international calls for a 48-hour truce in the Gaza Strip to allow in more humanitarian aid... The 48-hour ceasefire plan to allow more aid into Gaza, was proposed by French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner. Hamas spokesman Ayman Taha told AFP news agency that his group was open to any ceasefire propositions as long as they meant an end to the air strikes and a lifting of the Israeli blockade of Gaza.
--BBC News, Dec. 31, 2008 [18]
The international community must continue to demand that a cease-fire be implemented. In order to be successful, any agreement must call for 1) an end to Israel's blockade of Gaza, 2) an end to the Israeli invasion of Gaza, and 3) an end to all rocket attacks into Israel.
References:
[1] "UNRWA chief: Gaza on brink of humanitarian catastrophe." Haaretz Israel News 21 Nov. 2008. .
[2] "Gaza residents 'terribly trapped'." BBC News 4 Nov. 2008. .
[3] "UN warns over Gaza food blockade." BBC News 11 Nov. 2008. .
[4] "UN 'has run out of Gaza food aid." BBC News 13 Nov. 2008. .
[5] "Gazans despair over blockade." BBC News 20 Nov. 2008. .
[6] "Gazans using tattered notes because of cash crunch." Washington Post 24 Nov. 2008. .
[7] "Palestinians die in Gaza clashes." BBC News 5 Nov. 2008. .
[8] "Hamas: Six Palestinians killed in first IDF raid since Gaza truce." Haaretz Israel News 5 Nov. 2008. .
[9] "Haniyeh: If Israel abides by truce, so will Palestinian groups." Haaretz Israel News 21 Nov. 2008. .
[10] "Report: Gaza militants agree to cease rocket fire if Israel opens crossings." Haaretz Israel News 24 Nov. 2008. .
[11] "Agreement in Hamas: Cease-fire to end Friday." Haaretz Israel News 16 Dec. 2008. .
[12] "Haniyeh recognized Israel in 2006 letter to President Bush." Haaretz Israel News 14 Nov. 2008. .
[13] "Arab plan explained in Hebrew ads." BBC News 20 Nov. 2008. .
[14] "Haniyeh: Hamas would accept state under 1967 borders." Haaretz Israel News 9 Nov. 2008. .
[15] "Peres: Obama 'very impressed' by Arab League peace plan." Haaretz Israel News 19 Nov. 2008. .
[16] "Barak: We'll use every resource to stop 'criminal' rocket fire from Gaza." Haaretz Israel News 29 Dec. 2008. .
[17] "Israel vows war on Hamas in Gaza." BBC News 29 Dec. 2008. .
[18] "Israel rejects Gaza truce calls." BBC News 31 Dec. 2008.
Score = -18
maybe you could use this wall of text to surround the gaza strip and end the conflict once and for all.
Score = 7
Your arguments on proportionality are ludicrous. If Israel wanted a proportional response they would have blindly fired 3,000 homemade rockets into the gaza strip, like the hamas militants did in southern israel over the last 7 years. Imagine the damage then. Proportionality is a post modern concept that actually means nothing. Thousands of more Germans were killed in the British fire bombing of Dresden than the German bombings of London. Did that make the Germans right? What's wrong is using children and woman as human shields. What's wrong is booby trapping UN sanctioned schools with munitions. What's wrong is imprisoning civilians in buildings you're using as a rocket launching site. In short, what's wrong is HAMAS.
Score = 7
A pretty interesting defense of Eno and a call for more musicians to speak their mind (http://flavorwire.com/7355/unpopular-opinions-musicians-should-have-controversial-political-opinions)
Score = 0
imagine all the people
Score = 0
One hundred years from now, through the benefit of hindsight and thoughtful research and discussion, this conflict will be looked back on and seen in the same light in which the struggles between Native Americans and settlers in the American West are seen now, . The comparisons are readily evident now to anyone who cares to step back, achieve a bit of distance, and, first, look at the way the mass media, which has - and had then - the overwhelming power to report, and thus to define, both situations, did - has done so. In both cases, the native peoples were and are described (and therefore defined) as "savages" and "terrorists"; the first step in any attempt at destroying a people is always to dehumanize them, as this serves to justifiey treating them as things rather than as people. Once this is done, the next step is to take the most extreme and brutal actions possible against them on any and every pretext. In both cases, this means the deliberate raizing of entire villages and cities, thus making absolutely certain to include as many women and children as possible among the casualties. This guarantees not only the infliction of large numbers of casualties on the current population, but also a drastic reduction in numbers of the targeted population going forward - it worked quite well for the US' expansionists at the time, didn't it? Not so well for Native Americans, though, as is now overwhelmingly acknowledged by the vast majority of people the world over, given the benefit of a century of rational reflection. We must be thankful, always, for those with the clarity of vision to recognise what is going on as it is happening, and particularly for those who summon the the courage to speak out, when it is so very, very easy, to just practise blind hatred, or to remain silent for fear of becoming a focus of that hatred.
In peace,
Score = 1
your argument has some merit, but you're totally avoiding the presence of Islam in the current conflict. Islam (or "the Islamic extremists", as some want to call them) teaches to dominate all infidels until Islam is the global faith/global power. Read about Muhammad's violent life and what he "divinely" preached, and then tell me if Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance. My point in all this is that Hamas will never be willing to leave Israel alone, when Israel is willing to live in peace - most of the population in Gaza & Israel support a two-state solution anyway.
Score = -1
The description of Islam which you give is the one propagated by the mass media (who somehow never seem to mention any of the bloodiness that exists in the Old Testament whenever they report on Israel). Please, I ask you, go to your nearest research library and take a look back at the newspaper reportage (the mass media of the day) regarding conflicts between the American Army and the native peoples of the American West - I am quite sure that the parallels in coverage - not to mention the content and tenor of newspaper editorials, letters to the editor and public statements made by the politicians of the day - will prove to be startlingly familiar.
In peace,
Score = 1
BRIAN ENO IS AN ANTI SEMITE. THAT'S BEEN PROVEN BEFORE. ISRAEL IS ALWAYS THE VICTIM, AND THEY'VE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS BULLSHIT. I WOULD LIKE ISRAEL TO STOP ATTACKS ON GAZA, AND BOMB BRIAN ENO'S HOME. HE'S MADE ENOUGH MUSIC. TIME FOR YOU TO GO, YOU IGNORANT UNINFORMED NAZI DOUCHE BAG.
SUPPORT ISRAEL, PEACE FOR ALL.
Score = -12
yeah, what Israel is doing is strikingly similar to what the Nazis did to Jews. Remember when the Jews were launching missiles daily at Germans on the street and vowing not to stop until Germany was no more ? what about all the funding that Israel AND the U.S. have poured into Gaza ? Israel does not encourage insatiable hatred to its children in school, nor does it call people residing in the Gaza strip "brothers of monkeys" or "sons of rats" on their daily broadcasting outlets.
i LOVE Eno's music, but his argument is too simplistic. i feel like on an issue like this, we could all benefit from more history lessons.
Score = 13
Terry's Chocolate Orange is correct. The Jews of Germany were armed to the teeth with rockets, machine guns and mines. The Chief Rabbi repeatedly declared that the Jews would wipe out Germany and kill all Germans everywhere. They fired 8,000 rockets, missiles and mortars at German cities from their synagogues and schools but it was okay because they were home made and only two to three metres long.
And Brian Eno is yet one more ignorant, prejudiced musician whose brain is a minim.
Score = 2
Terry's Chocolate Orange is correct. The Jews of Germany were armed to the teeth with rockets, machine guns and mines. The Chief Rabbi repeatedly declared that the Jews would wipe out Germany and kill all Germans everywhere. They fired 8,000 rockets, missiles and mortars at German cities from their synagogues and schools but it was okay because they were home made and only two to three metres long.
And Brian Eno is yet one more ignorant, prejudiced musician whose brain is a minim.
Score = 0
Honestly, the entire Middle East needs to shut up and sit down. Palestine, Israel, whatever. There are American cities with murder rates high enough to be considered " at war". All your shitty gods haven't shown up to prove either side of the story so just have a knish, hummus, whatever the fuck, and live for the weekend like everyone FUCKING else. Seriously. If every culture on the planet pulled out their gripe sheet, all we would have is war, all the time, damn near everywhere.
Score = -3
with the keffiyeh trend at a feverpitch, i guess eno just mistook all the indiekids for palestinians and wanted to show his support. i can see why stereogum weighed in on a topic which is important to us all.
Score = 5
Israel has the right to be secure within its borders. The Palestinians have a right to be secure within the borders of their own state. Iran-backed Hamas has continued to pursue a failed strategy of acts of terror in reaction to Israeli suppression. And yes, the Israelis have viciously suppressed the Palestinians. Unfortunately, Israel has foolishly allowed itself to be suckered into this Iranian scheme to foment a war between Israel and the Palestinians again. It will solve nothing, not make Israel more secure, only cause the world to condemn the slaughter of innocent Palestinian civilians (justifiably), and hinder any hopes of peace in the region. War never brings peace.
Score = 4
Yup. I'm real glad I sat this one out.
Score = 5
I just lost a ton of respect for Eno.
I thought Israel were the bad guys for being the 'occupiers'. "End the occupation"! they cried.
So they did. And they gave them Gaza. There you go. It's yours. Complete with FULLY FUNCTIONING MULTI MILLION DOLLAR GREENHOUSES THAT SHOULD SHUT UP THE WHINING ABOUT 'POVERTY'.
So what do they do? DAY DESTROY DEM DIRTY GREENHOUSES DEM DIRTY JEWZ BUILDED. Ain't no proud Palestinian gonna actually make money off something no dirty jew built right?
And what else did they do?
THEY LAUNCH DAILY INDISCRIMINATE ROCKET ATTACKS INTO JEWISH NEIGHBORHOODS FOR 3 YEARS. 6000 ROCKETS.
I live in San diego. Can I imagine my government allowing people in Tijuana launching daily attacks into NEIGHBORHOODS in National city, Chula Vista and wherever else?
No. I couldn't.
But Brian Eno could.
What a completely moronic and retarded fool.
I feel bad for the minority of Palestinians that DO NOT support Hamas.
Problem is, THEY ARE THE MINORITY.
Score = 6
Right on keef. and the fact is, there are no parallels that you can draw between the plight of the Jews and the plight of the Palestinians. These "freedom fighters" are launching rockets into neighborhoods, yet they are the oppressed? The Israelis are only protecting their people, they could care less about Gaza. Hamas is the enemy, and they are teaching their children that they should hate Jews first, then follow the rule of law. If hating jews causes you to spew rockets into hostpitals and schools and homes...then yay!! Horray muslims. Whatta buncha of ignorant neanderthals.
Score = 3
I just wish the Jews would respond equally, fire 3000 of their rockets at random targets into Gaza over the next year or so, and call it even. Thats how Hamas like to do it so what is fair is fair.
Score = -2
EVERYONE: SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Score = 5
i am in an israel history class.
that doesn't make me an authority, but it does mean i probably know more than anyone else here who just watches the news.
that said, that land is rightly israel's,
the way they are getting it might be wrong,
but the land is rightfully theirs.
Score = -5
Do yourself a favour and study World history instead. And while you are at it , give your country back to Americas righfully owners.
Score = 1
I loved the part where he says he is middle class. Oh, please, Brian, I didn´t know you were such a comedian. You were in Roxy Music, you´ve produced U2 and Coldplay. You are NOT middle class. I even think he had this little smirk on his face when he said that.
Score = -4
?
Score = 0
Ah shit looks like I'm going to have to come down from the heavens and open up a can of whoop ass on everybody
Score = 2
You have no power here, old man.
Score = 6
Hello all ...
So yet again the people of the virtual-concentration camp, known officially as 'Gaza', are being bombarded from the sky and from the ground by the bully-boys of Tel Aviv.
State-of-the art Israeli jets and tanks, paid for by the United States, strike civilian targets in this tragic, poverty-stricken wasteland which acts as a holding camp for the human beings the Israeli government would rather be dead.
The world watches as a nation of people, the Palestinians, is systematically crushed and destroyed by the tyrants who call the shots in Israel on behalf of that country's real power structure - the House of Rothschild.
And, taxpayers of America (and elsewhere), you are paying for this calculated slaughter.
American aid to Israel accounts for something like a third of all US overseas aid when Israel is home to just .001 per cent of the global population and has one of the highest incomes per head in the world. This is without all the 'private' donations from US corporations and individuals which are tax-deductible even when given to the Israeli military, unlike any other foreign power.
According to 2007 figures, the United States government gave more than $6.8 million to wealthy Israel every day while to the desperate and devastated Palestinians of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank they gave just $300,000.
US military 'aid' to Israel increased by more than a quarter to an average $3 billion a year in 2007 - a figure guaranteed for ten years. This and other support makes Israel the biggest recipient of United States foreign military funding since the Second World War.
The United States is also Israel's biggest supplier of fighter planes, weapons and other military technology. As a result, Israel has the world's largest F-16 fleet outside the US Air Force. In their book, The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy, John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt write:
'Since the October War in 1973, Washington has provided Israel with a level of support dwarfing the amounts provided to any other state. It has been the largest annual recipient of direct U.S. economic and military assistance since 1976 and the largest total recipient since World War ll. Total direct U.S. aid to Israel amounts to well over $140 billion in 2003 dollars.
Israel receives about $3 billion in direct foreign assistance each year, which is roughly one-fifth of America's entire foreign aid budget. In per capita terms, the United States gives each Israeli a direct subsidy worth about $500 per year. This largesse is especially striking when one realizes that Israel is now a wealthy industrial state with a per capita income roughly equal to South Korea or Spain.'
Why do they do this? Because the House of Rothschild controls Israel and the House of Rothschild controls the political system of the United States. The network that links the two is called 'Zionism', a Rothschild creation - just like Israel itself.
The might of this Zionist cabal spanning Israel, the United States, Europe and beyond is yet again, like the playground bully that it is, attacking the little kid in the callipers - the people of Gaza.
At the time of writing the death toll is more than 800 Palestinian men, women and children with thousands injured, many disabled for life. They are bombing the unarmed innocent knowing there will be no credible response - the way all bullies operate. Oh, brave men of Israel; oh how Yahweh would be so proud:
'When the LORD your God hands these nations over to you and you conquer them, you must completely destroy them. Make no treaties with them and show them no mercy.'
Deuteronomy 7:1-4
What we are seeing in Gaza, and have seen so many times, both there and in the Lebanon, is merciless Old Testament slaughter: cold, calculated, heartless slaughter.
'So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin".'
Judges 21:10-24
'Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all - old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple".'
Ezekiel 9:5-7
'So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told.'
Ezekiel 9:5-7
The parallels are endless between the bloodthirsty 'God' of the Old Testament and the actions of the heartless, soulless, Artificial Intelligence that controls Israel, most notably the biological robots of the House of Rothschild who thus have no soul, no empathy, no more mercy for the consequences of their actions than a desktop computer.
Imagine if Iran or anyone else outside Israel and the United States (both Rothschild assets) was doing what the Israeli military is doing in Gaza. There would be global condemnation, not least from Israel and the United States, resolutions passed in the UN Security Council fiercely attacking the country involved and talk of the need for sanctions or military intervention to 'save the innocent'.
But when Israel does it we have vacuous calls for a truce, an end to the violence while 'understanding Israel's position', and, in terms of soon-to-be President 'Change' Obama, silence. It's all a fraction of what others would face because Israel is a wholly-owned asset of the Rothschilds and so is not subject to the same rules as anyone else. As former Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, said:
'Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial.'
And Prime Minister Golda Meir betrayed the same Zionist arrogance:
'This country exists as the fulfilment of a promise made by God Himself. It would be ridiculous to ask it to account for its legitimacy.'
Ah, it's all in the Old Testament? Gotcha, right, well do as you like then.
The 'Jewish homeland' was from the start a Rothschild fiefdom orchestrated through the global secret society network of interbreeding families known as the Illuminati.
During the Israeli military attacks on the Lebanon in 2006, the Israeli writer, Barry Chamish, told of a meeting with Evelyn Rothschild's grandson, who abandoned the family to be a Mormon (so actually he didn't, even if he thought he did).
Chamish said he learned that just seven families were enjoying the 'fruits of the war' with the Lebanon. The grandson had said of the Rothschilds: 'They created Israel as their personal toy. It makes them richer and gives them more control. It's not going to be destroyed.'
The Rothschilds funded the early European settlers in Israel, manipulated events in Germany that led to the horrific treatment of Jewish people and others, and then used that as the excuse to reach their long-term goal - a Rothschild-Illuminati stronghold in Palestine using the Jewish population as fodder to be used and abused as necessary.
They called their plan 'Zionism'. This term is often used as a synonym for Jewish people when it is actually a political movement devised and promoted through the House of Rothschild and opposed by many Jews.
The Israeli bully-boys spend most of their time condemning the terrorism of others and yet their very State was created through terrorism of the most grotesque kind via groups like Irgun, Haganah and the Stern Gang, which bombed and terrorised Israel into being and from which came the Israel Defence Forces, the IDF, which is bombing Gaza today.
Among the leading lights in these and other terrorist groups were Menachem Begin, Yitzhak Shamir and Ariel Sharon, butchers who became Israeli Prime Ministers and had the nerve to condemn Arab terrorism. And to this day the butchery goes on with the goal of destroying the Palestinian people.
After the Rothschild-controlled Zionist terrorists had bombed the State of Israel into existence in 1948, an estimated 800,000 Palestinians were made refugees and fled what had been their own country. Their descendents are said to number some four million.
And the world simply looked on - just as it does to this day - because Israel is a law unto itself and so terms like justice, fairness, decency and mercy do not apply.
The idea was always to destroy the Palestinian people step-by-step long before Israel was even created. The Balfour Declaration of 1917, in which the Rothschild-controlled British government supported the establishment of a 'Jewish' homeland in Palestine, said that 'nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of the existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine'.
But the Rothschild sidekick Chaim Weizmann would later say: 'With regard to the Arab question - the British told us that there are several hundred thousand Negroes there but this is a matter of no consequence'. Nor have they been ever since and the goal of destroying them is closer today than ever before.
The first Prime Minister of Israel, yet another terrorist called David Ben-Gurion, made no secret of this fact within his inner circle. Former Israel Prime Minister, Yitzhak Rabin, said in an uncensored version of his memoirs, published in the New York Times on 23 October 23rd, 1979:
'We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question - What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said "Drive them out!"'
The current bombing campaign against the Gaza Palestinians is just the latest step to that end. They have forced Palestinians into a Gaza Strip that is little more than a massive concentration camp in which they control all that goes in and out, people or supplies of food, medicines and other essentials.
When the Israelis close the border posts, that's it, the Palestinians are trapped and at the mercy of the soulless and heartless that control the Tel Aviv government and military under Rothschild direction.
One writer recently described conditions in Gaza:
' ... Israel nails shut the coffin that is Gaza under a siege that has lasted nearly three years, steadily intensifying so that malnutrition rates rival those of sub-Saharan Africa, sewage runs raw in the streets and pollutes the ocean, homes are still being bulldozed to super-add collective punishment upon collective punishment; men, women and children are still being sniped at and killed; children are deafened by continuing sonic booms, the vast majority of them suffer from post-traumatic stress syndrome, and many of that majority have no ambition other than becoming "martyrs" ...'
And it's a whole lot worse now.
How can anyone inflict such a lack of mercy on an entire people? The question can only be answered when we understand that Zionist extremists really do believe they are God's Chosen People and that therefore the Palestinians are little more than cattle.
The Israel Prime Minister and terrorist, Menachem Begin, described the Palestinians in a speech to the Israeli parliament as 'beasts walking on two legs'. Another Prime Minister and terrorist, Yitzhak Shamir, told Jewish settlers in 1988 that the Palestinians 'would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls.'
Prime Minister and terrorist, Ariel Sharon, then Israeli Foreign Minister, confirmed in 1998 what the plan really was for the Palestinians:
'It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialisation, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands.'
The plan is to kill or drive out the Palestinian people using poverty, hunger and war and so allow the Zionists to expand into 'Greater Israel'. That plan is now well advanced.
In early 2008, the United Nations' leading humanitarian affairs official said he was 'shocked' by the 'grim and miserable' conditions in Gaza. Undersecretary General John Holmes blamed this on Israel closing the border crossings and so limiting the supply of food and other materials - just as they are doing today.
He said: 'All this makes for a grim human and humanitarian situation here in Gaza, which means that people are not able to live with the basic dignity to which they are entitled'.
But they are just 'beasts walking on two legs', right?
Richard Falk, the UN Human Rights Council Special Rapporteur on the occupied territories, has also condemned Israel for its actions in Gaza. He is Jewish and therefore much more dangerous to the Israel government because he can't be dismissed as the old favourite 'anti-Semitic'. Or maybe he is a 'self-hater', the tag given by these sick people to those Jews who speak out against Israel.
Falk's punishment for daring to criticise the Promised Land as a UN official was to be held for 20 hours and then denied entry to the country and so he is prevented from doing his job of reporting on conditions for the Palestinian people during the current air and ground attacks.
His entry was denied in mid-December - perfect timing not to be there for the latest bombing that they knew was coming.
The Bush administration for the last eight years has been dominated by the Neo-conservative, or 'Neocon', network which is, itself, dominated by US/Israeli duel citizens and/or Zionists like Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Pearle, Dov Zackheim, William Kristol, Robert Kagan, Elliot Abrams, Douglas Feith, John Bolton, Robert B Zoellick, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and others. The neo-con godfather is the late Leo Strauss, a German-born Jewish 'philosopher', who believed that people must be governed by a 'pious elite'.
But surely those days of Zionist dominance are over because 'Mr. Change' is coming to 'power' now. Er, if only. Barack Obama has packed his 'new' administration with Zionists like Rahm Emanuel, his White House Chief of Staff.
Emanuel's father, Benjamin, is a Zionist extremist who was a member of the Irgun terrorist group in Palestine that I mentioned earlier and we can clearly expect the Obama administration to be balanced and fair on its Israel/Palestinian policy. No wonder Obama has kept quiet on the Israeli bombing of Gaza.
Obama speaks out on Gaza crisis: 'Hey, I got nothin' to say, I got the chance of a par here ... ask my Chief of Staff, he's a rabid Zionist and his dad helped bomb Israel into existence. He'll know what's goin' on.'
The Obama government is going to be slavishly pro-Israel because he needed the sanction of the truly massive Zionist lobby in the United States to secure the presidency. His vice-president, Joe Biden, is a long-time bag-carrier for Israel. He said on Israeli television: 'I am a Zionist - you don't have to be a Jew to be a Zionist'. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is another Israel puppetess who pledged to 'obliterate' Iran if it launched a nuclear attack on God's chosen country.
Would she say she would obliterate Israel if it launched a nuclear attack on Iran? No way.
The Palestinians have never had a chance because the table is weighted, the game is rigged and it always has been. At the time of the First World War, the Rothschild-controlled British government told the Palestine Arabs that if they fought the Ottoman Turks and forced them to leave Palestine and other lands they would be rewarded with an independent Palestine.
The Palestinian Arabs agreed and with support from the British through Lieutenant Colonel Thomas Edward Lawrence - 'Lawrence of Arabia' - the Ottoman Empire was defeated. But their reward was not independence. It was first rule by a British 'Mandate' and then occupation by Zionist Israel.
The Arabs were lied to, as Lawrence later admitted, and they have been lied to ever since. All these 'road maps' and 'peace processes' are always designed to lead nowhere. They are just holding positions to maintain the status quo until the Palestinians are basically no more.
The Israelis always say they are killing people in 'retaliation' for attacks by the Palestinian group, Hamas, which officially controls the Gaza 'authority', although control is hardly the word with Israel deciding what and who goes in and out.
Hamas operatives are firing seriously low-tech rockets that have so far killed four people. Terrible, yes, and it should not be happening. I have no brief for Hamas, which is another tyranny in its own way, but ask yourself this: What would you do if you were faced with the situation the Palestinians are in after sixty years of oppression and persecution while the world does nothing?
If you remove the injustice, you remove the motivation for a violent response to that injustice. Put people in a position where they either accept their pathetic plight or open fire and some are bound to choose the latter.
But instead of tackling the root cause, injustice, Israel responds with a state-of-the-art bombardment that kills more than 800 and injures thousands in a few days, at least 90% of which are men, women and children who have nothing whatsoever to do with the rocket attacks. In 2007, 25 Palestinians were killed for every Israeli. That's more than just 'protecting yourself'.
As Jewish UN representative, Richard Falk, said in the last two weeks even before the ground offensive:
'The Israeli airstrikes on the Gaza Strip represent severe and massive violations of international humanitarian law as defined in the Geneva Conventions, both in regard to the obligations of an Occupying Power and in the requirements of the laws of war ...
Those violations include:
Collective punishment: The entire 1.5 million people who live in the crowded Gaza Strip are being punished for the actions of a few militants.
Targeting civilians: The airstrikes were aimed at civilian areas in one of the most crowded stretches of land in the world, certainly the most densely populated area of the Middle East.
Disproportionate military response: The airstrikes have not only destroyed every police and security office of Gaza's elected government, but have killed and injured hundreds of civilians; at least one strike reportedly hit groups of students attempting to find transportation home from the university.'
This savagery towards Palestinians has been going on since the Zionist terror groups began their campaign of violence to secure the State of Israel and the scale of this ongoing evil has often been suppressed by the fear of being called 'anti-Semitic'.
The Rothschild dynasty has created a highly-funded network of 'anti-hate' groups, like the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) and so many others, to label as 'anti-Semitic' or 'racist' anyone who dares to expose or condemn Israel or its networks of manipulation within the United States and elsewhere.
Politicians (though all but are a few are terrified or rewarded into silence), university professors, people like me, and anyone with any kind of public stage, are immediately condemned by the ADL and smeared as 'racist' with support from the Robot Radicals of the Robot 'Left' if they expose Israel or anyone who happens to be Jewish.
The irony of those claiming to be the chosen people and above all others accusing anyone else of racism boggles the bloody mind.
Jewish people who challenge the tyranny, like the superb Norman Finkelstein, are dubbed 'self-haters' and often lose their jobs and livelihoods as a result. The Rothschild 'anti-hate' groups put any Big Brother to shame.
But we can't - and MUST NOT - stay silent on the plight of the Palestinians because we fear the consequences for ourselves. What are we, mice??
This is not about racism; it is about fascism and the daily onslaught against a helpless and tragic people. I don't give a shit what the ADL thinks about what I say, nor those on the 'Left' who parrot its propaganda like the juveniles that they are.
It needs saying and therefore someone needs to say it.
And, by the way, those that are running the Zionist agenda, which is part of much bigger global agenda in league with the Illuminati families, don't give a damn for Jewish people in general. They, too, are just an expendable irrelevance to the greater goal.
As the first Israeli Prime Minister, the terrorist, David Ben-Gurion, said:
'If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.'
What kind of sick mind does it take to say that? The kind that has run Israel since 1948 would appear to be the answer.
We need to drop the ludicrous, childish, labels of Jew and Gentile and Muslim and all this illusory crap and come together in the name of peace and justice for all. There is not a Jewish injustice or a Palestinian injustice, there is simply injustice.
Justice for one and no justice for another is 'justice' for no-one. For justice has no meaning unless it applies to all, and it will never apply to the Palestinians while the world stays silent and looks the other way.
Score = -5
hey, could you condense that into soundbites?
Score = 5
hello All,
Thanx for the enlightenment David,
Maybe I can add something with my testimony.
Even if you take off all the political side of it whatever that might be, the fact is that there are hundreds of innocent people dying, massacred everyday with the use of non conventional weapons like white phosphor bombs, cluster bombs and many other, in a way the defies all rules and conventions.
Don't forget people that the habitants of Gaza are human beings just like you, with hope, dreams, and disappointments, and no one deserve to die like that, to be treated like that, there are massacres goin on everyday, Israel is even shooting on Ambulances, and letting the wounded die slowly without help.
I am Lebanese, I know how it feels to be bombarded day and night by F16, Helicopters, tanks, boats etc they did that to us in 2006, and it was the most horrible, traumatic experience I ever went through, you feel that you have no control whatsoever on your faith, bombs are killing blindly everywhere around you, you can just pray or sing for the next bomb not attain your house.
It gives you the feeling that life is absurd, nothing has a meaning, why were we as the Gaza people are now being attacked so blindly and so savagely, I have nothing to do with terrorism, I am totally against it, I"m actually an indie rock composer/signer...
I listen to Portishead, Vampire week end, MGMT, MIA or whatever, I like to read musical blogs like this one, as are a lot of people in Gaza, what I"m saying is that they're just like you, and nothing justify that such people get so brutally attacked, and killed, and no Nation seem to react to that as they should be!
So in that mass of silence, more and more people are speaking out, journalists, some political figures, and people with influence like Brian ENo. I appreciate their courage, at least they are trying to make the opinion aware of the reality, and it is creating a debate like here which is good~
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I'm not Jewish, but I fear for the life of Israel. Arab countries have initiated 5 wars against Israel, and lost every one. Hamas calls for death to all Jews, destruction of their houses of worship, and in every instance, Israel extends offerings of land and pleas for peace, which they will not accept. If you believe in God (which I don't) you have to understand that in every circumstance where Israel was the underdog, they fought for their country and won. What does that tell you?
If you have never been to the Middle East, and spoken to the people on the street, not only are you at a disadvantage, but your opinion is worthless. You can't read the truth, you have to see it. Egypt & Jordan grew to see the light. Now it's your turn.
Agree with what Eno says, and there may not be an Israel tomorrow.
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You are clueless, really the rest of the world doesn't compare. Go live in a neighborhood where all your neighbors hate you, and want to kill you.
Wake up.
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The Real Protection for Israel would be Peace.
What Israel is doing now, with war, massacres of people and continuous violations of human rights, is what is creating hatery and extremism toward the Jewish state as well as the ones who are sponsoring it, not only in Palestine and people like the Hamas but in all the Islamic world and beyond. Which reminds me of the question All Americans were asking themselves after 9/11 'Why do they hate us'?
The question is legitimate and The answer is there, look on all the atrocities that are committed everyday, look at the indifference and the carte blanche that the Bush administration and others are giving to those violations of human rights.
How much would you love your neighbors if they come to your home, destroy it and kill you family? Have you experiences smthng like that? to know what you're talking about?
I am totally against terrorism and extremism, the use of violence to achieve a puruse, what Hams is doing is totally condemnable and Israel is doing is exactly the same but with a power x10000
Score = 1
I do NOT agree.
For 3 years Hamas has been attacking Israel and now when Israel finally responds
they are seen as the evil aggressors. It is Hamas that does not want peace and they will NEVER stop until there is no more Israel. And that will never happen.
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(1) live in peace with all men, (2) be pure, (3) take no oaths, (4) do not resist evil, and (5) renounce national distinctions.
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I'm surprised at the sympathy Hamas has given their singular objective is wiping a another race. But the real reason I'm rooting for the Jews is because they make funny television shows.
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dear brian,
i like you when you make ambient music but you certainly have a strange morality that i find somewhat questionable.
you should move down to the south of israel for a year or so, stare in the face that which you seem to hate, and look at those you seek to defend then comment on what you feel is moral. that way i'd respect your political sentiment. otherwise it's just another opinion, unqualified and distorted and sadly filled with hate.
regards
gary
Score = 1
what brian eno failed to discuss is how hamas has been attacking israel for years. just because it was not always on the front page of the new york times does not mean it was not happening. so yes, israel took action in response. it is awful that innocent lives have been lost, but that is just another example of the carelessness hamas can have in regard to civilians. and while hamas missles are often random, israel has targets.
Marc (from 1/13) -- it is terrible what you have to go through, but it is not as though israelis do not go through that as well. With eight cousins having gone through (3 currently involved with) the IDF, another who suffers from PTSD because of his experiences in gaza a few years ago, and another who recently relocated his children temporarily because he lives within range of the missles, i can tell you that israel feels the consequences as well. but again, this warfare is a response to years of attacks.
everyone else -- even the NYT, a widely celebrated publication, is slanted when it comes to this issue. haters, perhaps you should get another perspective. http://haaretz.com/
Score = 0
ultimately?
http://nightdoktor.wordpress.com/2009/01/06/1-06-art-time/
...i have to agree with that.
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Hamas TV show for kids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ExZVimjST8
Score = -1
Hamas Booby Trapped School and Zoo 11 Jan. 2009 :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHhs9ihSmbU
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Marc - I think you made the most powerful statement of this thread: "It gives you the feeling that life is absurd, nothing has a meaning." It doesn't take much thought to see how that leads to rationalizing more violence - on both sides. Multiply that by the length of this conflict and you have a self-fulfilling rationale that leads to an endless cycle of violence. It's heartbreaking since so much has been lost on both sides with little hope of a resolution.
If this isn't the place for the kind of discussion, try Indieoma.com. It's a new site that's taking an independent look at life through the lens of art. The idea is to have these kinds of conversations from outside the mainstream and through artists' commentary on issues (although nothing on this topic to date).
Score = 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTGbP55HGi8
Real Face of Hamas, the Murderer Of Palestinians:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_OGhj43GAE
Score = -2
ThanX Bill
To answer the anonymous post, yes of course the Israelis are suffering a lot from the terrorism that is Hamas, that should totally be condemned and fought, but what's happening in Gaza is a collective punishment where the people are being killed for who they are, most of the victims are as we see civilians, and children, not fighters
.
Same thing happened here in Lebanon, it was a collective punishment, they even bombarded many christian regions, where no Hezbollah has ever put a foot (they are not welcomed over there), to destroy all our infrastructure which took us years to build and many innocent civilians were killed that way also.
you can of course blame Hamas to be responsible for the war, but to understand a bit how things are over there, you have to acknowledge the fact that Gaza has been totally surrounded by Israelis for the past months. Conditions of living there were very very bad, as all the humanitarian organizations witnessed, where you can't live decently anymore as a human, and again extremism and fundamentalism comes from those situations where people are left without a choice, without anything.
Unfortunately what Israel is doing now can only feed those extremists all over the world, as we are seeing, so it doesn't serve the Israeli purpuse, nor the jews purpose nor the purpose of European countries and the USA, it's important to understand that.
Score = 5
"shutup": these "political articles on a music website" should be welcome, as they should be discussed everywhere. everyone should be concerned, whether they like their indie blogs or their Cyrus blogs or their klezmer blogs.
i ended up here because i get the newsletter and followed the link to Fleet Foxes on SNL. and because i am interested in politics and social justice...and criminal prosecution of those in power who commit war crimes/crimes against humanity.
i am with you marc and bill. btw, i am not jewish or muslim, but simply someone affected emotionally and offended personally by this unconscionable but tragically human behavior...
the irresponsible and cruel Israeli government (not unlike the irresponsible and cruel Hamas, et al) is behaving like a Monster, with no care for any human life.
it is like a sick and deranged yet unrestrained child, foaming at the mouth, seething with pure hatred for and resentment toward their age-old enemies. they are chomping at the bit for palestinian/muslim blood. but they are stupidly digging themselves deeper into the mire. peace will NEVER come about this way.
i don't in any way claim to be educated enough on the subject to know or gauge a way out (a one-state solution seems a hopelessly idealistic, impractical, utopian idea). but it is clear that Israel began this again by setting up the blockade—a blatant act of aggression—and instigated the rocket fire that was their sought-after justification for this new round of bloodshed. "One of the terms of the ceasefire was that Israel would lift the blockade of Gaza, yet Israel failed to lift the blockade, and that is one issue that is also overlooked or ignored by official Israeli spokesmen. So Israel was doubly guilty of sabotaging the ceasefire, A, by launching a military attack, and B, by maintaining its very cruel siege of the people of Gaza. –Avi Shlaim, professor of international relations at Oxford University, served in the Israeli army in the mid-1960s (http://www.democracynow.org/2009/1/14/leading_israeli_scholar_avi_shlaim_israel)
...and now evidence of the use of illegal D.I.M.E. weaponry and white phosphorus? burning and maiming innocent people, women and children? why is this being tolerated?? (http://www.democracynow.org/2009/1/14/white_phosphorous_and_dense_inert_metal) Israel will stop at nothing to extinguish as many Gazan lives as possible. they must be stopped.
i do not sympathize with groups like Hamas. i sympathize with the innocent people who cannot escape with their lives and their childrens'. all limbs intact would be nice.
i am sad to admit my pessimism on this subject: i have come to accept that we as human beings will always kill and hurt one another...by our innate bestial nature, we will inevitably kill. not i personally, but collectively, as selfish, immature, and base creatures.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FABqq_jjRRo&eurl=http://a-mother-from-gaza.blogspot.com/2009/01/bomb-ghetto-raise-cheer-pro-israel.html
+
http://www.alternet.org/story/119372
Is it just me, or should religion itself be obliterated? Maybe then there could be peace? maybe? hmph. more idealism talking.
Score = 0
"Bombings, rocket attacks, blockading medical supplies and military invasions will not lead to peace and security but will perpetuate the cycle of death, destruction, fear and insecurity among the people of all countries, including the U.S....tens of billions of our tax dollars provide Israel the military means to wage a vastly disproportionate attack on Gaza, a district with particularly dense population. That attack, plainly condemned by nearly all of the world's nations, has killed many hundreds of civilians, injured hundreds more and set off a humanitarian crisis where the wounded are dying from lack of transport to aid centers and many more face death from lack of water." http://www.veteransforpeace.org/National_vfp_statement_crisis_in_gaza.vp.html
"Unfortunately, the media, except for Democracy Now! and Pacifica and a few other places, are obliterating the message that many, many American Jews and other religious leaders, spiritual leaders and just American citizens are outraged at the immorality of what is happening...the Israel lobby, combining extremely right-wing Jews in this country with a powerful Christian Zionist movement, have blocked out of public discourse all of the moral sentiments of the American public, which would be outraged at what’s going on in Gaza at this moment and, more generally, understand that the best interests of Israel and Israeli security lies in reconciliation with the Palestinian people, not in trying to wipe them out." –Rabbi Michael Lerner http://www.democracynow.org/2009/1/15/us_rabbis_urge_obama_to_push
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AMY GOODMAN: "Dr. El-Haddad, why don’t you leave your home? How far are the Israeli troops from your home?
DR. MOUSSA EL-HADDAD: Why don’t I leave my home?
AMY GOODMAN: Yes.
DR. MOUSSA EL-HADDAD: Well, number one, there is nowhere to go. As you know, all the borders are closed. And if I leave, all the places are unsafe now. As we mentioned in the beginning, the civilians are trapped into this, between—this is a game being played between the politicians, and the civilians are paying the price. Number one, all the borders of Gaza Strip are closed. As you know, also the sea is closed. You cannot leave.
And as a human being, I would like to leave when I want and where I want. I don’t want to leave because Israel wants me to leave.
So the Israeli army now is pretty close to me, the tanks. Nobody is safe in this area. And as you know, more than 300 children have been killed so far, and some of them are as young as five months old. Can you believe it?" –Dr. Moussa El-Haddad, retired physician living in Gaza City
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/1/15/us_rabbis_urge_obama_to_push
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"...they are so drunk with self-conviction, absolute power and military might, racism and nationalism and perceived "success" all while a media blackout, a well-planned hasbara campaign and a public hungry for "action" fuel the war-terror machine with their blessings and support, that they will blaze ahead, losing sight of why-ever the hell they think they started this and whatever the hell it was supposed to achieve (the latest line is "increasing their deterrent force").
The herd mentality at its best."
– Laila El-Haddad, Journalist, Durham, NC and Gaza City (Dr. Moussa El-Haddad's daughter)
http://a-mother-from-gaza.blogspot.com/
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"The suburb is in flames. Residents are calling out to the Red Cross but they can't reach them; and they say they are bombing with firebombs or something, there is a thick black smoke descending on them, choking people." –Dr. Moussa El-Haddad, retired physician living in Gaza City
http://a-mother-from-gaza.blogspot.com/
Score = 2
MORE THAN 300 DEAD CHILDREN.
MORE THAN 300 DEAD CHILDREN.
THERE ARE NO EXCUSES, REASONS OR EXPLANATIONS IF YOU THINK YOU HAVE SOME JUSTIFICATION THEN EXPLAIN IT TO THE CHILDREN
OUT OF APPROX 1000 DEAD ABOUT 1 THIRD ARE CHILDREN
AND SOME PEOPLE ARE MORE INTERESTED IN SPELLING AND GRAMMAR AND WHO OWNS WHAT AND WHO IS THE MORE MORAL OR RIGHTEOUS.
WE ARE ALL TO BLAME FOR OUR OWN SELFISH WAYS.
MEANWHILE WHILE I TYPE THIS ANOTHER CHILD HAS BEEN KILLED ABUSED OR STARVED DUE TO SOME SELF SERVING ADULT.
GIVING IS THE ANSWER.
Score = 0
Stuart, why don't you pose that question to Hammas who is killing their own people and hiding behind their children. Death to them is nothing. And they use those deaths to win sympathy from idiots like you. You're looking at it like a typical ignorant Westerner. And how do I know you're an idiot? ALL CAPS. People who write in all caps should be locked in a room that's playing Nickleback on constant repeat for at least a week.
Score = 0
It just pains me so much that so many people with such a rudimentary understanding of this conflict would have such outspoken and unhelpful opinions.
ANYONE who presents this conflict as black and white, in a one sided way is simply showing their ignorance of its history and complexity.
You cannot understand this conflict without understanding it's very long history.
This isn't a conflict that just started 22 days ago, believe it or not..
Anyone out there who cares about truth and wants to understand the situation here, and wants to be helpful in making a better future for the region, must educate themselves about the events that have led to this deterioration from BOTH perspectives. And offer CONSTRUCTIVE ideas to move forward.
If you are unwilling to do so, please shut the fuck up already.
Here's a good primer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Arab-Israeli_conflict
Score = 0
as someone who used to live in israel, and still has family and friends there, and has seen the shittiness of both sides of this argument it really saddens me that many of my fellow israelis can't see how this horrible event is only going to worsen the situation at home.
i really, really don't like hamas, but something that seems to be removed from most of the mainstream reporting is that yes there were still rockets being launched into israel but since the ceasefire the number of rockets went from 100+ to i think like 3 or 4 a month. also, our government did not keep up their end of the agreement in regard to allowing aid into, supplies etc into gaza (i believe there was some aid allowed in but not alot)...also it's worth mentioning that 4 of the 13 israelis that died during this died by friendly fire, these people would still be alive today if this attack never happened on top of the 1000+ palestinians that are dead.
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John,I don't support Hammas, Jews, Christians,America or the East or Black or White or the right or left of politics.I support the innocent children. Your call me an idiot and seem more concerned that i wrote in capitals rather than the dead children.
Oh by the way i didn't ask any question.I offered only a solution.
I think its important to look in your own backyard before being so willing to attack others.
I have refrained from writing in capitals just for you.I have never even heard of Nickelback.
A wise man once said that separation is a form of violence.
So to separate East from West. Muslim from Jew,Catholic from protestant,White from Black. North from South. than we practice violence.
History has proven this to be correct.
Peace is not hard. If you want to change the world than you start with yourself.
Score = -1