MTV On The 2008 Brooklyn Scene
It's no secret that Brooklyn and Manhattan are growing further apart these days, and less of a secret that the increasing divide makes for fun media pieces. The NY Post ran a piece on the schism, nabbing this quote from show promoter extraordinaire and de facto scene leader Todd P:
Manhattan has larger venues, but Brooklyn people who are dialed in probably don't give a crap about those places. More tours are stopping in Brooklyn, and the scene is a billion times better than when everything revolved around Manhattan.Todd's got a lot more to say, as evidenced by this long and worthwhile interview over at Gothamist where he gets into his theories on the post-millennial migration of cool shit from Manhattan to BK. Like:
And these [Manhattan] clubs tell you it's all financial, that they don't have an option, that the insurance keeps them from this or that and I can believe that to a certain degree but I still think these big clubs - and even some of the little ones - are just heartless. I often wonder why the people who risk their financial well-being to open these places don't just open up a widget factory. Because all they care about is a return on their investment and a rock club is never going to be a very effective one. I don't care how much you cut every corner and suck as much money out of it as you can, it's still not going to make you as much money as a lot of other fields do. And if there's no joy to it and you don't love the visceral rock experience - which they can't because they're stifling it - why bother? Why sully this otherwise really pure experience for people?Todd's show-throwing approach speaks to the issues he outlined above, and as such, his gigs tend to get wild. Anyway, enter MTV. They've already taken time to investigate Beirut (aka Greenpoint's ambassador), so Zach isn't involved here; instead we get a look at the scene through chats with Mr. P, Yeasayer, MGMT, A Place To Bury Strangers, and the (relatively) grizzled vets of Grizzly Bear and Dirty Projectors, interspersed with live concert footage and snippets from one of the BK scene's most representative tracks in spirit and sound, this one.
Nice MTV slag, Longstreth. Hey Yeasayer dudes, at least (and, most) one of us here resents that "everyone in Manhattan wears guyliner ... noone's creative in that whole island" bit (but not the "in love with '77 punk" part, that's OK). But if there's one thing that Condon's quote in the Greenpoint piece ("I used to see Kyp every day, but I don't think he recognized me. He never said 'Hi.'") and MGMT's bits here taught us, it is that acknowledgment by Kyp Malone is to the young Brooklyn hipster musician what an invitation to the couch by Johnny Carson once was to the young comic. A souvenir so you can be down with Brooklyn, wherever you are...
Grizzly Bear (Feat. Beirut & Dirty Projectors) - "Alligator (Choir Version)" (MP3)
OK! Enjoy your weekend. We're gonna go guyliner-less for once and get on the L and be all hipster in Williamsburg tonight. See you there, indie rock!
Posted at 7:06 PM in MP3, Video
Tags: A Place To Bury Strangers | Dirty Projectors | Grizzly Bear | MGMT | The Muggabears | Yeasayer
i really hope they dont show sea on the clip...its my favorite thai place! its my own little secret! i love brooklyn!
Score = 0
@ doo
So clever you had to post your joke on BrooklynVegan AND Stereogum! Good job!
Score = 0
And... the 280 million Americans who don't live in New York City still neither know the difference nor give a shit. In Louisville, our scene is: Drive to Cincinnati or Chicago when someone comes there.
Score = 0
Mgmt is a major label band in hipster clothing, and they really have nothing to do with this scene. Why are they part of this piece?
Score = 0
mtv is covering the mooney suzuki show if the email from luna lounge on williamsboard is true. who knows whose ruining the neighborhood more.
Score = 0
Everyone "from Brooklyn" is actually from some shitty suburb somewhere else in America. Brooklyn sucks. All those hipsters go home for the holidays and drive past the same Target, Bed Bat and Beyond, Petco and Chili's that the rest of us do.
Score = 0
i lived in manhattan for several years, and recently moved.... and still don't give a shit. i'm more than happy to get out of that hipster hell.
Score = 0
Wow, this article is just a few years too late. The last time I was in Williamsburg it was pretty much all condo developments going up. Hip! Edgy!
Score = 0
yeah...big condos and even a holiday inn. haha have fun with that.
Score = 0
Yeah I still stand by my old "Brooklyn is for creeps and scumbags" credo.
Score = 0
A scene is a place no one has written about (yet.) Most of these NYC bands fade to black once school is over- (4-6 years) and it's time to work. It's all part of the early 20 something experience- God planned it that way. And it lasts for 15 minutes. (the ugly truth- local MTV staff and indie media lobbyists tend to focus on what is in front of them. Seeing, writing or traveling to music outside of the 5-Borroughs requires work, and some cash. That's a bit much for silver-spoon jet set.
Score = 1
Everyone here shitting on Brooklyn either secretly wishes they lived here or is exactly what's wrong with things here. I may go home for the holidays and eat at just another Chili's, but at least I have a super fun job and don't get told by ex-football captain coworkers that anyone who doesn't love the new Toby Keith album is a faggot.
Score = 2
Oakland is the new Brooklyn.
Score = 0
oakland is the new mission which is the old new brooklyn philadelphia is the new chicago which wass the new brooklyn after it became the old baltimore but before philly became the new greenpoint, all after the lower east side ceased to be the new soho suckazz
hipster is a state of mind, not a place
Score = 2
Sea ... a secret?!? Whatchu' talkin' 'bout, Willis? That place is constantly packed. Maybe four years ago it was a "secret," not anymore.
Score = 0
Honestly, it sounds like few of you have ever even been to Brooklyn, must less a ToddP show, or actually understand that there is a "scene" of musicians in Brooklyn and Queens [specifically around Greenpoint, Bushwick and Long Island City], just like there is an actual scene in LA [absurd, I know!!] these days.
So what's a scene? It's not just "shows." Simply having cool shows does not make a scene, especially if those bands share no artistic connection or are touring bands. In Brooklyn, a lot of the bands share practice spaces, multiple bills a week, hand-made CDRs, apartments and even sonic territory. Bands in a scene influence each other and kind of resemble each other musically. They compete over who can take things further. That actually seems to happen in Brooklyn.
Those of you musing on how Brooklyn is just like anywhere else must not live there and if you do, you must not be going to very interesting shows. There couldn't be a more relevant place for an "indie scene" right now, though to be fair, I don't think I could include Beirut or MGMT in it.
It's also the nature of scenes that they go away in time or that people grow out of it. There was another scene in Brooklyn [Williamsburg] about six years ago, which evolved into today's [thanks, I think, in large part, to Black Dice, who've managed to remain the most locally influential, despite bands like Yeah Yeah Yeahs and TV on the Radio's meteoric rises, but that's understandable, it's hard to stay "ear-to-the-ground" under those circumstances].
To HappyParts: I know many people in bands in Brooklyn, and of them, I only know two people TOTAL who are students, and I know many more in their 30s than 20s. Maybe show goers are in college, but art isn't some t-shirt you put on. People keep doing it as long as they can.
To Gunk: Well, everyone is "really from" Africa or Asia Minor. So wtf is your point? We're all "from" where we are. Sheesh.
Score = 2
I lived in Brooklyn from the late-90s to the mid-00s, I know exactly what it's about — it's a big slumber party for kids in their 20s. It was a blast. That said, if you're still there well into your 30s, you're a little bit of a loser. Kind of like Matthew McCaughnahay in Dazed and Confused ("I keep getting older, they stay the same age...").
Also, if you think Brooklyn is that special because you have a cool job or there are indie shows or musicians who are friends, you either haven't traveled much or have an inflated sense of self-importance. You can find all of those things almost anywhere, albeit with less people in the "scene".
I think the person was kidding about Sea. I don't think that place was a secret even when it opened.
Score = 0
That second video was pretty awesome.
Score = 0
Sandnes is the new Brooklyn!
Score = 0
I really want Yeasayer to go away. MGMT too, for that matter.
Score = 0
wow, people get really heated and defensive over the funniest stuff. you guys remember that these bands create music, right? i can't remember the last time my ability to enjoy a show was hindered by the t-shirt the guy standing next to me was wearing.
Score = 0
many of the artists and musicians who left manhattan to go to brooklyn for cheap rent and freedom are now coming to philly for the same thing..brooklyn is dying fast
Score = 0
First off: you are all fuckwits for making a big deal about who lives in Brooklyn. Who cares whether you (through no fault of your own) were born in Munsie, Indiana or backstage at a Richard Hell concert. You didn't do shit to get there. Congratulations if you've got a super-cool fucking job. So do I. I went to a good school to get it and somebody paid for that. I'm sure somebody paid your way too.
Second off: Todd P is a fuckwit. The idea that anyone concerned with turning a profit should get out of the music business is the most arrogant of elitist Rich-kid wankery. So the only people that should own clubs are the people wealthy enough to run them at a financial loss? Is Simon Hammerstein really your idea of an indie roll model? Give me a fucking break. I'm sure, somewhere out there, a non-trust-funded dreamer would like to open a club because that's what he or she loves. You're saying they should bleed themselves into bankruptcy to avoid tainting the all-important scene with dirty, dirty profitability? Cool scene, dude. You can have it.
Score = 1
for all the whining coming from todd p, he seems to have a really really good publicist.
Score = 0
"Second off: Todd P is a fuckwit."
Have you met him? Todd's a great guy. He books awesome bands and he treats them right. If you do know him, then you must have the wrong impression. He's definitely not bitter or vitriolic to anybody with money, and I know he'd want to own his own space, because he's tried to for a long time (he had one, but long story short, it got busted up). But he's think he's right that the scene is way better when money is less of a deal. It results in better music. Music made for art's sake or for the community is much better than a spectacle designed to bring people out en masse even though they don't really care much about music.
-------
"for all the whining coming from todd p, he seems to have a really really good publicist."
I'm pretty certain he doesn't have one. He's got a couple of interns/friends who handle his shit. They answer most of his e-mails. I used to work for an Epic-funded company and a few people there knew about him, so I'm not surprised MTV caught wind. Do something long enough in the right location, people will notice.
Score = 0
chicago is still better than nyc.
Score = 0
Notice the brief appearance of a Mr. Brownstone flyer. Yeah. That's right. Best band ever.
Score = 0
Atlanta is the new Crooklyn.
Score = 0
Anyone who calls someone a fuckwit is a dipstick. That word is embarrassing. Seriously.
Score = 0
I like music. Do you guys like music?
Score = 1
I think the real point of the story was that Brooklyn is more relevant than Manhattan as far as 'indie' music goes, which is true. Sure, it's been true for the past 8 or more years, but that doesn't nullify the point.
Brooklyn made New York as a whole relevant again. The Strokes' success was as manufactured as Paris Hilton's. Whether you like the music or not, Brooklyn was the new Seattle, Athens, Omaha or wherever eight years ago and it still is today. There is no other community or location with as much notable music coming out of it right now, and for a long time in New York, that really wasn't the case.
And Hopper, you're a fucking douchebag. You left Brooklyn early because you probably weren't doing anything creative, you were just slumming, and as soon as you got too old to pick up overeager NYU chicks anymore, you packed up and moved to the suburbs of whatever lame ass city you grew up in. You're obviously bitter at all the people who stuck around, pursuing the art or craft that drew them to the city in the first place whether they 'made it' or not, or maybe even just to be a part of the culture the city offers. Some us aren't willing to give that up just so we can have an SUV in the garage and eat at Applebees every week.
Score = 0
yeah phosphorescent!
Score = 0
I bet no one around here would ever wear shorts - not even to the beach. C'mon man...shorts have been waiting around for sooooo long for their turn to be cool. Just patiently sittin over there, bein' shorts and whatnit.
Shorts...their time has come.
(brought to you by the American Shortpants Council)
Score = 1
Kevin, denim shorts totally made a comeback at the end of the summer. Unfortunately, the khaki short remains a dead art form.
Score = 0
What I don't understand is why so much time and energy is focused on Brooklyn, when similar ocurrances are hapening on a smaller scale all over the country. People, start your own scene; book some shows in your town- its not that hard. There are incredible, not to be missed musical events happening everywhere. You don't have to move to Williamsburg to see things. Make it happen where you live!
Score = 1
It's time for shorts to lay waste to the tyranny of skintight black jeans. NOW!!!
Also, it's time for razors to lay waste to the tyranny of beards. NOW!!!
Seriously, no more beards. When God realized he gave me too much acne during puberty, he decided to even things out, and stopped my facial hair maturation process, right before my goatee area met up w/ my side burns. No more beards.
P.S. Phosphorescent are the new Good Charlotte
Score = 0
i agree with you wade. 2nd video ftw.
Score = 0
is wade really the only other person besides me who watched that amazing second video about will oldham and his ass attack? phenomenal stuff.
Score = 0
When I moved to New York from Seattle a few years ago every band I met aimed for getting signed and paid - and play big stages. In Seattle/Portland I didn't get that vibe at all. People play music in basements, nooks and crannies for free. They have day jobs that keep the business-side out of their music/art-making. It's low key. It's experimental. I'm finally finding that DIY culture in the outskirts of BKLYN thanks to Todd P and other promoters. (Todd is a Portland transplant, btw.)
Classic story - labels get hip to a "scene", contract-hungry bands move into the area to get a piece of the action, and by doing so change the organic DIY culture that was doing fine as is.
"Leave Brooklyn Alone!"
Score = 0
Just wanted to stop all the hating and continue the lovin for that Jeffery Lewis video.
Score = 0
Yeah, that second video is terrific.
Also, as a resident of W-Burg, I've grown quite tired of the constant moaning about how the neighborhood is being bought out by rich, yuppie types.
A.) The act of the rich pushing the creative out of their neighborhoods has been going on for centuries, in places like Seattle, Rome, Paris, Budapest, etc etc etc. Stop posting on your blog about how Of Montreal are sellouts, and pick up a history book.
B.) If everyone wants to maintain their "scene", stop telling everyone you know about the superiority of your neighborhood. Then it will take longer for them to check it out and push you out.
Why is it so hard to type in this box???
Score = 0
Quit your whining. The majority of you will complain about what is hip and what isn't and eventually move to the suburbs to make babies and find a good school system. You are all surface bitches concerned with pants and hair--you are rootless, and concerned about a neighborhood which you will surly eventually only ever remember as what you "did" when you were young. How fucking up-in-arms can you get about a place you will live-in for 2-10 years and abandon. You see Brooklyn as an entertainment complex; until you have roots, ties, a family, and a community that is authentic and sustained, and you give something back to New York, you got nothing to say. And if you do...whatever, it's pants.
Score = 0
Jojo,
Why are you so angry?
Your rant is almost xenophobic. Except instead of foreigners, it sounds like you're afraid of 20/30 somethings. Believe it or not, people in their 20s and 30s who live in Brooklyn apartments aren't all exactly the same. Some people will move sure and that's okay, but many will stay and many grew up here. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make about an "authentic" community or not. But how can you be so critical of people you've never met?
Score = 0
I really don't understand the whole BK vs Manhattan debate. I've lived in the East Village for years and I don't really notice that much of a difference between the music of both places. Every band in the NYC area plays shows in both, it's not like the bands in BK never play the island. And geez, for me a trip to Williamsburg is one stop on the L train, how removed from each other can the two scenes be? It's hard to even argue who has more music. Williamsburg/Bushwick definitely has more young white 20something bands, but that's ignoring the overwhelmingly vast amount of music going on in all the boroughs. When I lived down south, I saw young rock bands a lot like what I see in BK all the time, other than that, cover bands. Here, there's salsa, samba, reggae, hip hop, all the live bands at the hookah bars, tiki bands, Irish folk, experimental stuff, etc. It seems silly to try and judge the artistic merits of the whole city by focusing on one miniscule slice of the arts scene.
I will say this, the bands in BK are much noisier, in a publicity and promotional sense, but I think that's because a lot those kids are trying to make music a career. A lot of Manhattan musicians work typical day jobs, probably making a lot more money than they would if they tried to "make it", and besides, they get to play music all they want anyway, and perform in one of the greatest cities in the world. If that's enough for them, how could it possibly be less "real" or vital?
Score = 0
I just wanted to say that San Diego's music scene is fucking great right now..
Grand Ole Party http://www.myspace.com/grandoleparty
Scarlet Symphony ms/scarletsymphony
The Muslims ms/themuslims
The Prayers ms/thefuckingprayers
Vena Cava ms/venacava3
The Sess ms/thesess
Fifty On Their Heels ms/fiftyontheirheels
it might not be BK, but it's f'n awesome.
check these bands out. I will make it to BK one day and take in the "scene".
Score = 0
eh, music is overrated....I like to get in debates and quarrels about meaningless shit in public forums....gets the blood pumping.
Score = 0
Haddon Heights, NJ is the new Brooklyn.
Score = 0
i'm surprised any of these bands even wanted to talk to mtv. what is the purpose of this network anymore, other than to promote the most vacuous and superficial aspects of life to 12 year-olds? whether it's some horrible dating show or a bunch of shallow pretty things on the real world, no one with any maturity gives two shits about mtv anymore.
Score = 0
one thing's for sure:
hipsters everywhere hate each other just as much as they hate themselves.
and i still like sea, so fuck you.
Score = 1
In my eyes theres alot of irony in this piece. The music scene in Brooklyn is a bit over blown. It's really the same as whats coming out of Bloomington Indiana, or Philadelphia. Only because it's so close to Manhattan is it getting any coverage at all. The irony is that people speak of Brooklyn as being the low priced alternative to Manhattan, thus making manhattan irrelevant, yet Brooklyn is already fetching SoHo prices. So unless you're the child of privelege, Or live 32 to a apt. People I know are moving to actually affordable places to be artists. See The Bronx, Philadelphia, Atlanta.
Score = 0
I love living in new york but it is certainly populated with the most self conscious people in the world (self included) For the record i love the fact that my spot, alphabet city, has been declared dead by mtv.
the LES's has got yuppies and projects and people from most corners of the globe on the same block, '08 billy'burg feels pretty bland honestly. not that i don't flee on Saturday night to the silent barn, death-by-audio, etc. todd p makes a great contribution to the city but he is just one man and some of the shows are a bore.
and yes, scientists are the new rock stars.
Score = 0