'Roo Remainders: The Hold Steady Rock "Stuck Between Stations," John Roderick Deems Them Stuck Between E Street Band, Bad Company, Foreigner and Styx
In what should be the last of the scraps of our trek to Manchester, TN this past weekend, we were psyched to share with ya a clip of what we (and a lot of you) thought was one of the fest's best sets. But then we stumbled upon the musings of the Long Winters' John Roderick, keeping a Bonnablog for MSNBC -- he's got the Hold Steady's set down to four words: "derivative" and "full of shit" -- and we thought maybe you'd like to take a gander at that first. He writes:
These fellows have a rabid popularity that leaves me deeply conflicted. Although their live show is undeniably full of energy, full of engagement, and full of whimsy, their music is full of s--t.I mean that admiringly, since most of rock and roll is similarly full of s--t, (Jim Morrison was 100 percent full of s--t). But after a song and a half, I’d lost track of the number of total rip-offs in their tunes, so much so that their set played like a medley of the greatest hits of the E Street Band, Bad Company, Foreigner and Styx. As played by your uncle’s friends.
The singer talk/sings like Bruce Springsteen during a breakdown, and although he may be saying insightful, hilarious things, the whole lot taken together is inconceivably derivative. This is heresy to say in certain circles, and I was stopped numerous times throughout the day by people I respect and admire who all exclaimed, “Weren’t the Hold Steady awesome?” but I couldn’t get past it.Ouch. Well, at least John and Craig Finn agree on one thing: Jim Morrison. Most of you have probably seen the Hold Steady before and can weigh in without further evidence, but for those that need to see what Roderick assessed, enjoy this Steady rockin' clip of Bonnaroo set-opener "Stuck Between Stations."I felt like I was at a dot-com Christmas party and a bunch of drunk webmasters got up on stage to jam, with the company cut-up rapping their mission-statement out of a three-ring binder. And everyone at the party said, “Whoa, those guys are actually good. They should form a band.”
Posted at 12:31 PM in Video
Tags: Bonnaroo | The Hold Steady | The Long Winters
i've seen the hold steady many times before, and yet again they rocked my socks off. best set of the festival.
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Bless das Roderick. I have never got the hype about The Hold Steady: the music is nothing terribly new, the vocals are pinched and irritating, and the lyrics, i hear, are supposed to be clever. John put onto page most of the reasons I react so unfavorably towards them. One more reason for me to heart The Long Winters with all of my organs.
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I like the album, but the live experience made us tend to agree with Mr. Roderick:
http://quarterlifeparty.blogspot.com/2007/03/hold-steady-ottobar-march-8th-2007.html
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I don't get them either, though I've never seen them live.
And Roderick gets points for at least being witty when he bashes bands. Read his comments on Paolo Nutini.
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Whoa - Easy Roderick. He's just upset his band isn't more popular because he was trying to do the same damn thing - i.e., ape classic rock. Too bad the Long Winters are so f'n cheesy.
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Yes, Long Winters do suck and are - I'd venture to say - about a thousand times less creative, less engaging and less talented than The Hold Steady.
John Roderick = Douche Wagon
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oh john, grow up and deal with the fact that your 15 minutes is live blogging a concert. way to go champ
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some long winters guy putting down the hold steady? kinda like bryan adams slamming springsteen. way out of your league, dude.
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Who the fuck are the Long Winters?
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i think his criticisms are pretty valid... but i don't get the hold steady megahype.
i do like them though, and i don't think being derivative necessarily precludes artistic achievement.
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thank you. the hold steady is one indie-trend that i never got; it's boring, not at all original, crap. so you like to drink and like bruce springsteen. fucking awesome. i do too. i also appreciate originality, however. blah.
soon enough the masses will be listening, and then all the indie sheep will stop. we've seen this before.
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steve: hahah
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hahah I am laughing mya ss of right now... don't you see the irony???? Roderick's band.. who BLOWS.. is also extremely derivative.. of THE COUNTING CROWS. What a fucking loser. Finn writes lyrics that Roderick couldn't dream of
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Yeah! YEAHHHH!!!! John, you sooo suck dude! You just wish you could get drunk and write awesome lyrics to shitty classic rock! You're such a poser dude. Get drunk on stage and then get a life man, seriously.
The Hold Steady rule sooo much. I love getting drunk!
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Jealous much? Even if he may have valid points about derivative elements, I still find The Hold Steady damned entertaining so fuck what he thinks.
That said, I like his band also.
Oh well, opinions are like assholes - everyone has one and they typically stink no matter whose you're talking about...
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see, i agree with this guy. there's nothing particularly special about the hold steady.
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Is Roderick joking? Have not both bands TOURED together before? Is this all by design just for publicity? I say this because both bands, or both vocalists, have the same speak/sing style.
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The guy from the Long Winters calling The Hold Steady "derivative"?
Ooooh. What a slight.
I suppose Roderick doesn't sound a THING like his influences. Unless you're creating music in a vacuum (back off Phish fans, i know we're close to Bonaroo, but back off) or are one of the very VERY few truly innovative artists of our time, then your music is going to borrow from, refer to, nod at, and otherwise spring from OTHER music. I just don't get the "if it's not original then it's crap" school of thought. If the music's GOOD then it's GOOD. Or rather, if YOU like the music, then it's good.
So many of the greats have (and, though I like The Hold Steady, I'm not about to put them in that pile) leaned on their influences, especially in their earlier albums:
Bob Dylan--> Woody Guthrie
Led Zeppelin --> every blues artist that came before them
Radiohead --> Pixies
and so on
If he's not a Springsteen fan, or classic rock fan, fine. But all that "webmaster company rock band" crap is just bitterness.
I suppose his blog wasn't at all influenced by the likely big and enthusiastic turnout for The Hold Steady's set and his own thoughts about turnouts for his music. Or by the exuberance and energy of a Hold Steady show.
Craig Finn makes no effort to hide his Springsteen love. And the band doesn't profess to be anything but a group of friends who love to play music together.
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I love The Hold Steady. I also love The Long Winters. I also double love John Roderick's Bonnaroo blogs.
Viva la opinions people, welcome to the internet. You do not have to burn the house of anyone who dares say your favourite band are not so great. Espescially not when he does it wittily. I disagree with him, sure. But who gives one?
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did someone actually use theholdsteady and bruce springsteen in the same comment?
(scrolling up to confirm)
(scrolling back down)
yes, they did. Shameful...
-b
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I did not get The Hold Steady until I saw their set at Bonnaroo which was probably the best of the weekend. If seeing The Hold Steady now is half as entertaining as seeing Bruce in his prime would have been then I don't see a problem with that.
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I unfortunately live in the same city as douche mcgee, john rodderick and not only does his band completely suck, but mr. rodderick is so desperate to be relevant that he will go to the opening of a letter. The Hold Steady are rock and roll and it is refreshing in a sea of whiny pussy bullshit music, such as The Long Winters.
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who do i dislike more - the hold steady or the long winters? this made it clear.
i dislike the hold steady more. i give people props for having the balls to stand up and say that they dislike their contemporaries and then actually back it up with reasons. i may dislike the long winters, but i dislike them less than i did earlier today.
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what a bunch of tasteless dipshits this board brings out. if it's not shitty, drony, overhyped unlistenable, pretentious drivel (ala animal collective, the knife, the blow, etc.), then some of you following drones automatically reach for the suck button. it so happens that the long winters do kick ass, and they do it in a way that is melodic and witty and glorious. i'm tired of so many of you fucktards trying to make music out of your soon to be outdated fashion statements.
jesus, this after the real guy from the crappy band, wayne coyne, dissed nirvana yesterday and few of you bothered to to be bothered.
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"Radiohead --> Pixies"
??
I'm not sure if I see that one.
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What a horrible, nasty insult to The E Street Band, Bad Company, Foreigner, and STYX.
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So he doesn't like 'em, that's fine. What's annoying is how he comes off like that guy who has to hate anything that more than 3 people are into.
I consider myself to have great taste in music. I'm sure everyone does, and it's completely objective anyway. All I can say is that The Hold Steady had me at Chips Ahoy last year, before I was subjected to all the great press, and I haven't been this happy about a band in years... so happy that I would break my neck to see them three times on this last tour, which were three of the best and most exhilarating show's I've ever been to.
So yeah, opinions, assholes, etc. Everyone doesn't have to like what anyone else does. I will now check out The Long Winters... who knows, maybe I'll dig 'em. I'll never be able to get too much into them now though since for all intents and purposes my better judgement tells me that the lead guy is a douchenozzle. We'll see, maybe I'll be wrong.
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I'm surprised this guy whipped out the "drunk webmasters" spiel while being so far up (the good) Merlin Mann's ass ;)
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Spot on, John. Spot on.
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That's it. I'm drunk and listening to the Hold Steady and you guys got me riled up. I'm gonna punch this John Roderick guy in the face next time I see him! Seriously. What the hell kind of asshole writes this stuff? Does he know anything about who the Hold Steady are? GOD...
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What czero said. Except that I'd add it seems like Roderick didn't much care for anyone at Bonnaroo, outside of The Tweecemberists.
oh, and Wilco, which like, most people who follow music have known about for like, years.
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Milk it, Dino. Milk it. Maybe people didn't see your "funny" the first time around.
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Jeremy, since you hate all these bands, why do you read stereogum?
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I know, man. I just couldn't help myself...I thought everybody was trying to be funny here...bummer.
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Let this be a lesson to all:
Do.not.fuck.with.The Hold Steady.
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His list of complaints is everything that I feel makes The Hold Steady great. You could say the same thing about GBV, for god's sake.
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hey corey, it's gotta be for all the hot gossip and shitty top 40 music, i suppose.
the thing that sucks about this is that all of these people who never bothered to check out a really great band now have the impression that john roderick is some kind of asshole when in reality he's a really funny, intelligent, amiable kind of guy. seriously, you want him at your party.
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I like Bruce Springsteen.
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man! some of you guys really come off like you need to get laid in a bad way. why do some of you react so idiotically? the hold steady are good. the long winters are good. john roderick is funny.
and for what it's worth, i've met john roderick and found him to be very nice and equally as funny in person.
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Well, in all fairness, Jeremy, Roderick brought that impression on himself. FWIW, I actually read his reports before I saw this post.
Now, let's touch upon the important trend I've noticed in "alt" rock lately -- the freedom with which the leads of bands dis other bands. I mean, this was unheard of in the 80's - all the bands held each other up, were the "wind beneath each other's wings", so to speak. Now, all the "alt" bands influenced by those bands seem to enjoy criticizing one another -- constructively, mind you, but criticize nonetheless. I haven't seen this kind of bomb-throwing since the great Petty-Buck feud of '89. It's awesome.
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God I hate The Hold Steady...I tried to listen to them back in their more punk(?) days and did not get it then and still don't...Mr Finn's voice is as abrasive and annoying as it gets...and what's with the dude in the cap/beret as the Lil' Steven character?
Viva la Opinions!
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okay, so Finn may look a little bit like the "special" kid in the class from time to time, but dangit if he doesn't just make me feel alive when i see him bursting out all his seams like that with the music. i like the way he doesn't care about looking cool and brooding; the man LOVES the music, and I will give him lots of credit for that. plus, their lyricism is largely unparalleled in today's music.
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The Hold Steady set at Bonnaroo was easily one of my favorites of the weekend. How does one (Roderick) get his panties in this tight of a wad over someone so plainly thrilled to be playing his superfun music to a receptive crowd (Finn)? I think Roderick is a great writer and like the Long Winters OK (granted, I've never seen them live), but this particular blog really comes off as sour grapes. If he had just offered his opinions of the music instead of trying to get all flowery with the webmaster convention business, or admitted he was jealous and didn't understand why another band featuring a bunch of nerds and literate lyrics was gaining so much popularity and getting crowds so hype, maybe it wouldn't seem that way. But you can practically see the envy radiating from the words.
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"...the thing that sucks about this is that all of these people who never bothered to check out a really great band now have the impression that john roderick is some kind of asshole when in reality he's a really funny, intelligent, amiable kind of guy."
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I read most of his reporting from 'Roo, and he does seem to be a good guy and pretty witty. Enjoyed his coverage more than most for sure.
For the record, I have no strong feelings about The Hold Steady or The Long Winters.
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Uh, has everyone been too busy arguing to notice the video does not work? Or is it just my computer? Either way, I'd like to see it...
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Wu wu wu wu wu wu wu.
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Roderick just needs to walk around and drink some more.
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In case no one's noticed, Craig Finn's been doing basically the same thing for approximately a decade. The fact that it's finally getting attention hardly means his band deserves any sort of flash-in-the-pan, flavor-of-the-week label. They're not fucking Beirut, for chrissakes.
Secondly, where exactly does Roderick get off calling anyone "full of shit?" Has he heard his records? Sounds like the big fat pot calling the kettle black to me.
Sure, we're all entitled to our opinions, but maybe the folks at MSNBC would do well next year to find themselves a blogger whose views aren't informed so largely by his own white-hot burning jealousy.
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WEEN was the best set. period.
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I wanted to like this Hold Steady but just couldnt... i dont like their sound. I don't like anything like classic rock. BUT i aint a hater, so to all the lovers, more power to ya... rock out! i hate haters. Let's stop talking shit. If you dont like a band, say so, but no "X sucks" needed. Stop being mean. Just a "IMHO" ... who REALLY 'sucks'?? Even bands we dont like are cool to somebody. I dont like Hold Steady but i respect what they mean to those who do love em! This clip's cool.
peace, love, and understanding dude.
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roderick is a fine writer, but i could care less about his criticism of fellow upper/mid-tier "indie" bands until he comes out with a significant record. it's just rotten smack talking. 'putting the days in bed' was a good record, for instance, but for christ's sake, it's so full of non-innovation that my mom thinks it sounds "nice." i disliked the hold steady for years, but the last album was great throughout. i can't say the same about the long winters, whom i'm sure is probably opening up for nada surf on the "pretty songs my mother likes" tour pretty soon
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"In case no one's noticed, Craig Finn's been doing basically the same thing for approximately a decade. The fact that it's finally getting attention hardly means his band deserves any sort of flash-in-the-pan, flavor-of-the-week label. They're not fucking Beirut, for chrissakes."
TLS FTW!
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I realize that not everyone will agree with me that the Hold Steady are the best band in America. But the level of vitriole leveled from John Roderick is uncalled for. He sounds like a bitter douchebag
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As a painfully dedicated THS fan, it was hard not to give in to some knee jerk reaction and be up in arms over this.
I don't want to stomp all over other's opinions. You don't like The Hold Steady? Totally acceptable. All I'm saying is: If you agree with anything John Roderick says, I respect your opinion on music as much as I would a deaf man's. Have you ever heard The Long Winters? This guy should use the time he spent critiquing other bands to create something that isn't so safe, generic, boring, etc. I guess it's easy to insult other's when you have never gone out on a limb musically. Hey, Roderick..way to pick up where The Counting Crows left off. If you are going to sound so close to another band, try picking one that actually made an impact. Or do the world a favor and just stop trying. Upon further review of the blog, it's pretty apparent that Roderick's lack of creativity is closely followed by his inability to write a constructive review. Ripping on artist whose talent and originality he could never come close to. It was like reading a review written by that really pretentious guy who is "totally over it" as soon as you know what "it" is and for no other reason but that. An overgrown scene kid fishing for points. Bleck. Well, as a wise man once said..
"Everyone's a critic and most people are DJs" or in this case, perpetual 16 year old indie babies who are afraid somebody with real talent might take away from their scene cred. Keep your scene, I don't want it. My only hope is that Roderick will start reviewing some bands I never heard. I think I would probably discover a lot of good music by figuring out what he hates.
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i love how much hold steady fans get off on stuff like this.
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