I definitely agree that he at least attempts to construct a persona. I’m sure he’s aware of how he’s perceived by the public and does try to feed into it sometimes–but just because he’s aware of his persona and at time feeds into it doesn’t mean he’s fully in control of it. I don’t think his persona has been fully constructed by him, aware of and expecting how he will be reacted to–I think a good deal of it is just him reacting to how he’s perceived and, in response, trying to take control of his persona.

If his life is like a circus and he’s the ringleader, I don’t think he’s successful at orchestrating everything, because once in a while something will happen like a lion gets bewildered and bites someone’s hand off or the clown juggling flaming pins will accidentally catch one on the flaming end.

Anyways, good debate, BTW. You’ve made many good points and been entirely civil, so I think this has been rather productive all around.

It seems to me like they give some artists undue credit for circumstances or actions that are incidental to their talent rather than examples of it–as if so often being a hypocritical, conflicted egomaniac who has to constantly make amends contributes to Kanye’s talent as an artist. It certainly makes him more interesting as a pop culture phenomenon, but I don’t think he’s aiming at achieving artistic greatness (nor does he reach it) by those means.

He’s just incidentally a batshit crazy guy who can’t handle the spotlight, but produces some excellent rap music. The fact that he e-mailed some chick a picture of his dick and caused a scene during the VMAs doesn’t somehow make his music greater than it is. And while production on the album is stellar, there are some great guest appearances and Ye’s flow has never been better, you’ve got to acknowledge that the lyrical content is extremely lacking when he rarely ever says anything more compelling than “No more drugs for more–religion and pussy is all I need.”

He’s not shit, but there’s no way his was the top album.

Unfortunately, I’d say this was a relatively weak year for music overall. Nothing at all has blown me away like MPP, Bitte Orca and Veckatimest did last year.

Really? I found Rivers’ harmonies (and banter) are what really annoyed me.

Based on this list’s high ranking, I listened to a few songs off of that album, but it was so extremely unpleasant that I had to stop,

Deakin actually did play on “Strawberry Jam.” There were some guitars on that album, but I think the group as a whole was probably just moving towards a more sample and synth-based style, and went further in that direction MPP, which had even fewer guitars.

I gave you a thumbs up in spite of how vehemently I disagree with ranking Machina above Terror Twilight, but only because I agree just as strongly with the rest of your post.

Might I suggest that, from now on, the post-Machina “Smashing Pumpkins” always be referred to as “The Smashing Pumpkins”?

And perhaps they now serve no function (aside from nostalgia) and have “no love”/new material, but at least it’s better than their only function being to desecrate the memory of a beloved band (*cough cough*–I’m also looking at you, Rivers.)

That cover is so bad.

This IS a very good album, but I think perhaps you need to relisten to “Person Pitch.”

The term “hipster” is such a catch-all, amorphous bogeyman that it has absolutely no meaning to me. I’m much more annoyed by the people who incessantly rail against “hipsters” than anything else.

Note to SGum editors: This spammer has been lurking around everywhere. It’s very annoying.