Matt Berninger has been popping up on podcasts more and more frequently of late. First there was The Nerdist, then Pete Holmes’ You Made It Weird, and now Bret Easton Ellis’ podcast. Berninger doesn’t come on until about 7 minutes in, but Ellis opens the podcast with a story about how he spent his summer in 2008, the deep depression he was in, and how he eventually came across Boxer by the National. Over the years, the National have become Ellis’ favorite current band, and it leads to a very interesting interview. Head here to listen.