Genesis Breyer P-Orridge of Psychic TV/Throbbing Gristle and Laura Jane Grace of Against Me! are the latest pair of musicians to record a conversation together for the Talkhouse’s podcast series. P-Orridge identifies as pandrogyne — or “positive androgyny” as they go on to explain — and Grace identifies as a transgender woman. Both have transitioned in the public eye in ways that challenge traditional conceptions of binary gender roles, and their conversation on such is fascinating and brave. I actually had the chance to go see P-Orridge’s exhibit S/HE IS HER/E when it was on display at Pittsburg’s Andy Warhol museum a few years ago, and it’s a powerful body of challenging artwork in a variety of mediums. “We wanted to demonstrate that the human body is not the person,” P-orridge says at one point. “Identity is the way the brain operates, its memories and sensory output, the mind is the person. This is a step symbolizing seeing the species differently.” Listen below.