Madeline Johnston’s lyrics speak for themselves: “All of my songs are love songs…All of my songs are about death.” This refrain from “Killdozer” on No Depression In Heaven, out today, comes later in the record, after songs about the omnipotence of rock and roll and a funeral dirge for a Toyota Sienna. Johnston’s music as Midwife is simple on the surface but so is mourning. There’s an obvious sadness to a funeral, but there’s also a swelling of emotions inside each mourner, complex and delicate, that aren’t as easy to articulate.

“Killdozer” is about Johnston’s relationship with the city of Denver, where the population boom and bust is palpable, as is the feeling that something’s missing. The epidemic of corporatization and empty luxury condominiums spread through the city long before we knew what “coronavirus” was. But in the city’s collective mourning, there’s an undercurrent of rage and frustration against the people who did it. Driving down any main drag in Denver means seeing signs for places that no longer exist, pushed out for something new that can pay more money in rent. They’re repurposed to give a kitschy new identity for some forgettable coffee shop or thrift boutique, displayed like the antlers of trophy bucks on a hunter’s walls. When that’s the norm and it’s been happening for decades, Marvin Heemeyer’s dramatic 2004 act of protest against the city of Granby, CO (two hours northwest of Denver) feels like a rational next step.

No Depression In Heaven is an album about death and love — they all are — but it’s also the first Midwife record about the world at large, the first one where Johnston’s experiences as a full-time touring musician can reflect in the art. A Flenser debut in 2020 brought Midwife exposure across the underground, and Johnston got to take her music nationwide in 2021 after the release of Luminol. Her songs are deceptively simple and intimate, with slow guitar licks that are recorded in such a way that every slide up and down the fretboard, every lift or press of the finger, is audible. She has often repurposed corded home phones to use as microphones, making every song sound like a conversation with a loved one. Listening with a closer ear presents these emotional swells and atmosphere that feel natural, like how the brush strokes in a Rothko are imperceptible even when viewed up close. The songs have a tendency to feel familiar, even when new, suggesting that even if this is the first time she’s been able to tour full-time, she’s always been here.

The album starts with the lyric, “If rock and roll is a dream, please don’t wake me.” “Droving” begins with Johnston confidently saying, “I have always been asleep.” I was lucky enough to share some correspondence with Midwife ahead of the release of No Depression In Heaven, and she’ll tell you herself, she’s living the dream. Below, stream the new album and read our exchange.

The last two Midwife full lengths were released when touring was off-limits and then precarious. Was touring a shock to your system after quarantine? Have you enjoyed touring?

MADELINE JOHNSTON: Yes, touring after the quarantine felt very shocking and uncertain, but I also think some of those early tours were quite important, because everyone was so hungry for it. I love touring, it’s profound and mundane and exquisite. Coming back to touring in 2021 felt like entering a different world. Previously I had just done DIY tours and I was suddenly on much bigger packages. Such a whirlwind.

You have become a bit of a prolific collaborator in recent years. How have those experiences affected how you write a Midwife record?

JOHNSTON: I don’t think my collaborations have affected how I write for Midwife, but I want to continue to lean into it, specifically in the writing process. As a solo artist, collaboration is a way I can bring my project to life and connect with other musicians. Next year, I hope to focus on more collabs.

You’ve covered a wide array of artists over the past two records, between the Offspring, Rowland S. Howard, and Alice Deejay. The Offspring and Alice Deejay songs, particularly, are reimagined in a way that recontextualizes the lyrics. Can you give some insight into how you picked those songs?

JOHNSTON: I love covers that make the song their own, and that’s what I always try to do with mine. Creating a cover is like having a conversation with the original. I mostly choose my covers based on the lyrics. “Autoluminescent,” for example, contains some of the most beautiful and profound collection of lyrics in a song that I’ve ever heard. I tried my best to celebrate the pure poetry that is this song while making something different, too.

The Offspring and Alice Deejay covers started in a different place, that of simplicity. Which is an idea that feels very Midwife. Lyrical minimalism, and building the structure through repetition. Both of these songs feel very universal to me.

I’m an off-and-on resident of Denver since 2016, so I’ve seen some of the changes you wrote about on “Killdozer” but definitely not to the extent you saw. The song articulates the righteous anger at the people who changed this city for the worse and mourns the loss of what a lot of people call “Old Denver.” I’ve already seen a few of the Killdozer shirts you made with Foie around town. How did it feel to get that song out into the world?

JOHNSTON: “Killdozer” is one of my favorites on the album. It feels really good to have it out in the world. I’m very proud of my songwriting here and the way it connects me to the place my own story lives inside of. I hope other people can relate to it and find some beauty in the story, too.

Do you have a favorite “Old Denver” landmark? Is there a spot you miss most?

JOHNSTON: This is kind of a strange one, but I really miss going to Surplus Tools, a hardware store on Alameda which had been open since 1947. I love places where you can travel back in time like that, it’s very special to me. Surplus Tools was a huge hardware store that felt part junkyard and part craft supply. Full of debris from floor to ceiling: but ask any employee where something is, and they know exactly where to find it.

I agree that the writing on “Killdozer” is something to be proud of. Mourning is a difficult emotion to parse, and I think you do it well on your records. Similarly, “Vanessa” is a really beautiful ode to your old touring partner/van after its untimely death. How has touring felt since its departure?

JOHNSTON: Vanessa was a van I bought in 2019, in preparation for tours in 2020 which were ultimately canceled due to Covid…so, it was already a pretty sensitive subject for me. Vanessa finally made her touring debut in 2022 with Deafheaven… and she bit the dust in Tampa mid-tour. It was really hard to pour so much love into something for years and then see it die so quickly. I loved that van. Before I bought it, I probably had spent eight months searching for the perfect Midwife vehicle. It was the first car that was truly my own and I took a lot of pride in that. Toyota Sienna is the best van.

When she died, it forced me to think about the impermanence of the physical items we possess. I had to meditate on letting go. It was a big lesson. Touring since then in rentals has shown me that it’s better to have a personal vehicle that stays at home, and rent a car for tour, it’s less stressful that way for everyone. A big regret of mine is not repairing my broken van in Florida, but you can’t dwell on the past. It’s gone… But, we got a great song out of it, and for that I am grateful. It’s like Vanessa gave me back a gift that I gave to her.

Like you said, the last few years have been a whirlwind for you and you’ve toured quite a bit. How do you make time for yourself on the road?

JOHNSTON: It’s incredibly challenging, almost impossible, to get time to yourself on the road. I try to make an effort to go on walks if there is time before the show, but usually we are so rushed it’s just not an option. I’d like to think about this on my upcoming tour and make it a priority. Having that time to clear my head and walk around new cities is a great meditation.

You’ve played a lot of shows with much louder bands than Midwife, and you’re about to go on tour with Blood Incantation. Do you enjoy being the quiet act on the bill?

JOHNSTON: I really enjoy it, yeah. There’s something incredibly powerful about being quiet in a loud space. I love tapping into that divine channel and changing people’s perspective on what is considered to be heavy music.

You said touring is “profound and mundane,” and that’s in line with some of the lyrics on the record. The fantasy of “Rock N Roll Never Forgets,” that this is a dream you never want to wake up from, contrasts the reality of touring you allude to on “Droving.” Is this still a dream you don’t want to wake up from?

JOHNSTON: Living the dream. I wouldn’t change it for anything. I love my life.

No Depression In Heaven is out now via the Flenser.