If you read up on the tortured history of New Jersey indie rock legends the Wrens, you’re sure to learn about the metamorphosis of Grass Records. As the story goes, in the mid-’90s, the Wrens released two great albums on a plucky independent label called Grass Records. In 1997, Alan and Diana Meltzer bought the label, changed its name to Wind-Up Records, and promptly signed Creed, and kicked the Wrens to the curb. It’s part of the lore surrounding the band, particularly its 2003 masterpiece The Meadowlands. But the Wrens weren’t the only indie rock legends signed to Grass.

Commander Venus, the Omaha emo band co-fronted by Bright Eyes’ Conor Oberst and Cursive’s Tim Kasher, recorded their second album, 1997’s The Uneventful Vacation, for Grass, though the label ultimately licensed it to Chicago-based Thick Records instead. At some point the Meltzers played a young Oberst some Creed songs when they were considering the band, and as Oberst tells the Broken Record podcast, he strongly advised the label against signing them.

As Exclaim points out, Oberst was on today’s episode of the Rick Rubin/Malcolm Gladwell show, where he recounted the Creed incident. “They were sweet,” Oberst said of the Meltzers, “but I remember them showing me Creed before it even came out. And I was like, ‘You guys — it sounds like a really bad Pearl Jam.'” The Meltzers disagreed with Oberst: “The lady, Diana, she was like, ‘He’s like Jim Morrison. He’s the new Jim Morrison.’ I was like, ‘Guys…’ And then, sure enough, they put it out, and it’s the biggest thing in the world. So [that’s] another reason not to ever trust my judgement.”

I don’t know, Conor. With all due respect to your fellow We’ve Got A File On You alumnus Scott Stapp, I see where you were coming from. Check out the full podcast episode here.