Over the past four decades, the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame has seen its fair share of drama and music industry changes. There have been some eyebrow-raising nominees and many notable omissions. The 2024 class — which included Mary J. Blige, A Tribe Called Quest, Cher, and more — might be among its least rock ‘n’ roll in history. John Sykes, who’s been Rock Hall chairman since 2020, spoke with Vulture about the state of the foundation.

First and foremost: Though rap, pop, and other non-rock genres are getting more recognition as of late, the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame will always be called the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame. Sykes clarified:

I think… some people don’t understand the meaning of rock and roll. If you go back to the original sound in the ’50s, it was everything. As Missy Elliott calls it, it was a gumbo. It just became known as rock and roll. So when I hear people say, “You should just change it to the Music Hall of Fame,” rock and roll has pretty much covered all of that territory. Rather than throwing the name out, it’s doing a better job of communicating to people where rock and roll came from and what it’s truly about. Once they hear it that way, they understand.

The best story to convey this was when a great friend of mine, Jay-Z, got inducted a few years ago. I was so excited. But he told me, “Rock is dead. It should be called the Hip-Hop Hall of Fame.” And I said, “Well, hip-hop is rock and roll.” He goes, “No, it isn’t.” And I said, “We’ve got to do a better job explaining it. Little Richard, Otis Redding, Chuck Berry — these artists were the cornerstones of rock and roll. If you look at the sounds over the years, those artists ended up influencing hip-hop.” Jay-Z hemmed and hawed, but he showed up to the ceremony. That made me feel like we had done our job to communicate that rock and roll is open to all.

Trying to tell Jay-Z what is or isn’t hip-hop is a crazy move. But in slightly less crazy moves, we could see new categories added to the Rock Hall honors in the near future. Sykes elaborated:

We’ve discussed ways we could recognize not only artists but those around them who’ve had an impact on the sound of rock and roll. Fans often don’t even know who helped break these artists. It could be record-company presidents, it could be lawyers, it could be agents. We also want to look at specific songs that change culture. That could be another category.

It’s worth noting that Mariah Carey made her feelings clear when her lawyer, Allen Grubman, got inducted into the Rock Hall before her.

The Rock Hall nominating committee – around 30 people including Tom Morello, Dave Grohl, Questlove, and Sheryl Crow – will convene in NYC this month to discuss the class of 2025. Sykes told Vulture about some artists who have come up in conversation, but haven’t been inducted. Pixies, for example, “have had a lot of support” while “Weird Al” Yankovic has “never made it close to the ballot.” You can read the full interview here.