Moby is an electronic music veteran with a long history of saying weird and off-putting things. Now, like so many other people, he has a podcast. (It’s called Moby Pod.) Now, Moby’s latest guest is another person with a long history of saying (and doing) weird and off-putting things. Hunter Biden, the surviving son of the President of the United States, has had many problems, and he’s become a huge target for right-wing politicians and commentators. He’s facing several criminal charges, and he’s the focus of a recent impeachment inquiry against his father. Just yesterday, Hunter was indicted on another tax-evasion charge. Now, he’s out here doing a podcast with Moby. Get ready to white-knuckle your way through this one.

Moby describes Hunter Biden as his friend; they apparently met while going through addiction recovery together. Two years ago, Moby was a guest at a Biden art show. On the podcast, much of Moby and Biden’s conversation is about the way right-wingers have targeted Biden, and Biden says that it’s their way of going after his father: “What they’re trying to do is they’re trying to kill me, knowing that it will be a pain greater than my father could be able to handle, and so therefore destroying a presidency in that way.”

During the interview, Biden talks about his recovery and his attempt to find “a well-ordered life.” Most of the conversation is therapy-speak, and Biden talks about feeling guilt and trying to find compassion for his persecutors. He also says, “I am not going to let these motherfuckers use me as just another example of why people in recovery are never gonna be OK, never to be trusted, they’re all degenerates. I’m just not going to let that happen.” Biden says that he communicates with Moby almost every day and tells Moby, “You’ve been a model for me.” You can hear the conversation below.

This was part one of Moby’s conversation with Hunter Biden. They’re not done yet!