The PBS late-night host Tavis Smiley doesn’t often have musicians on his show, though he has interviewed people like D’Angelo and Killer Mike in recent years. And on his most recent episode, he spoke with Matt Berninger, frontman of the National. Berninger didn’t have anything to promote, which probably made it a more interesting conversation. The two of them spoke about playing at campaign rallies for Clinton and Obama and, a little bit, about the new album that the National are working on. On the show, Berninger said that he’s writing lyrics with his wife, the former New Yorker fiction editor Carin Besser, and that “she’s very helpful at helping me to find the soul of a song.” Watch the interview below.

An emotionally intense new album from the National would go down pretty well right about now.

UPDATE: The National will play a free get-out-the-vote concert for Clinton in Cincinnati tomorrow. The show is at Washington Park, and doors are open at 6PM. You can RSVP here.