M.I.A. and The Daily Show: Two cultural institutions that left huge footprints during the George W. Bush years and which are still soldiering on, doing their best to adapt to changing circumstances. Last night, they came together. M.I.A. is out promoting her biographical documentary MATANGI / MAYA / M.I.A., and last night, she sat down at one of Trevor Noah’s swiveling office-chair things to talk about it.

On the show, M.I.A. didn’t try to be funny, and neither did Noah. (We’re in a weird place where The Daily Show has the most persistently sober interviews in all of late-night TV. The Daily Show!) Instead, they went though a quick sort of sketch of M.I.A.’s whole thing, which isn’t the kind of thing you can really accurately sketch out in a few minutes of TV dialogue.

M.I.A. talked about Bob Dylan and about her whole idea that pop music can be a force for cultural change. She also talked about the idea of reconciling the versions of her that grew up in Sri Lanka and in the UK, as well as the pop-star version of herself. And Noah got nervous and rambled a bunch. Watch the conversation below.

MATANGI / MAYA / M.I.A. is out 9/28.