Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters is currently on his This Is Not A Drill tour, which CNN recently covered in a segment with anchor Michael Smerconish. During Smerconish’s interview with Waters, the host questioned the overtly political elements of Waters’ set, particularly one where Waters displays a “War Criminals” montage with a photo of Joe Biden. “Well, he’s fueling the fire in the Ukraine, for a start,” Waters replied. “That’s a huge crime. Why won’t the United States Of America encourage [Volodymyr] Zelensky to negotiate, obviating the need for this horrific, horrendous war?”

“But you’re blaming the party who got invaded,” Smerconish responded. “You’ve got it reversed.”

“Well, any war, when did it start? What you need to do is look at the history, and you can say, ‘Well, it started on this day.’ You could say it started in 2008… This war is basically about the action and reaction of NATO pushing right up to the Russian border, which they promised they wouldn’t do when [Mikhail] Gorbachev negotiated the withdrawal of the USSR from the whole of Eastern Europe.”

“What about our role as liberators?” Smerconish countered.

“We have no role as liberators,” Waters replied, and the two men proceeded to go back and forth debating World War II history. “I would suggest to you, Michael, that you go away and read a bit more, and then try and figure out what the United States would do if the Chinese were putting nuclear-armed missiles into Mexico and Canada?”

From there, they got into it over the Chinese, Taiwan, and who in the world is more of a global threat. The conversation gets pretty heated, but they still seem to like each other by the end. Check it out below.