Frank Ocean famously doesn’t do interviews. The reclusive musician last sat down for one in 2021, which was his first in two years; on Friday, a profile on producer Michael Uzowuru appeared in The New York Times and featured some quotes from the Blonde singer.

“Me and Michael’s careers exist post hip-hop — that genre, that culture, informs both of us greatly,” Ocean told the interviewer over the phone. “But his appetite has grown; his vocabulary, musically, has grown so much over the time that I’ve known him.”

Ocean added that when he had writer’s block — which only happened once — Uzowuru and Rick Rubin helped. “Michael is a friend I talk to about where I’m at artistically very often.” He phoned Uzowuru for advice on the song “Nights.” “I had all these ways of describing what the album was missing,” Ocean said. “Ultimately, I had to write it, I had to do it. But it did start in conversation with him.”

“I couldn’t love him or care about him more,” Uzowuru said about Ocean. “I’m very grateful for him as a person outside of the work, so it doesn’t matter if we work. I don’t need to work with him, because it’s so much bigger. He’s separate from everyone else. He’s family.”

In November, Ocean previewed a new song on Instagram, but nothing has come of that.