We’ve Got A File On You: Japanese Breakfast

We’ve Got A File On You features interviews in which artists share the stories behind the extracurricular activities that dot their careers: acting gigs, guest appearances, random internet ephemera, etc.

Michelle Zauner became a celebrity pretty fast. In 2021, her third album as Japanese Breakfast, Jubilee, was swept up in the indie singer-songwriter mainstream crossover that had already made stars of her Dead Oceans labelmates Phoebe Bridgers and Mitski. She appeared on Jimmy Fallon — for an interview, not just a performance — and was nominated for her first Grammy. The same year, she published her first book, Crying In H Mart, a memoir about her mother's diagnosis with terminal cancer and Zauner's attempts to connect with her Korean heritage after her death. It spent 55 weeks as a New York Times bestseller and was picked up for a major film adaptation (Will Sharpe of The White Lotus and A Real Pain was attached as director before leaving the project; it's now on hold indefinitely).

For an artist who came up in the Philadelphia DIY punk scene, fronting the band Little Big League before starting Japanese Breakfast as a low-expectations side project, this kind of success was a shock. She and her band rode the wave, touring maniacally for a couple of years. Then, Zauner removed herself; she took a year off the road and moved to Seoul, her mother's home city, in order to immerse herself in learning Korean. The allure of success, the insatiable desire for more that it generated, was scary to her — but it also made for a rich source of creative inspiration, which she mined on her new, fourth album, For Melancholy Brunettes (& sad women).

In contrast to the bright and synthy pop of Jubilee, For Melancholy Brunettes… is an exercise in gilded, intricate chamber-pop. It's songs are full of characters who yearn, tragically and/or self-destructively, and its beautiful but moody backing suggests both a tongue-in-cheek extravagance and a poignant exploration of where sadness and desire mingle. Zauner most directly addresses her own dilemma on the opening track, "Here Is Someone," where she sings to her bandmates (including her husband and guitarist, Peter Bradley), "I don't want to let you down, we've come so far / Can you see a life when we leave this behind?" It's an interesting, thoughtful take on the "I'm famous now" album, one that neither indulges nor navelgazes but instead goes in weirder directions than might be obvious. Oh, and there's a duet with Jeff Bridges on it.

The multi-faceted nature of her career, and her various brushes with both indie and pop royalty, make Zauner a perfect candidate for We've Got A File On You. Below, she talks biting Michael Imperioli, being hungover at the Grammys, Almost Famous-ing Wilco, and more.

For Melancholy Brunettes (& sad women) (2025)

For Melancholy Brunettes (& sad women) — tell me about that title. I've seen a lot of people finding that pretty funny.

MICHELLE ZAUNER: I was reading a book of short stories called The World Of Apples by John Cheever, and there's a short story in that book about a man who's unhappy in his marriage and is fantasizing about all the different women he wants to sleep with, and some of them are melancholy brunettes and some are sad women. I just thought that combination of words was quite funny, and sort of filed it away and ended up using it in the song "Orlando In Love." I found it to be sort of romantic and tongue-in-cheek, and it had "melancholy" in the title which I think is really the kind of thematic throughline through the album. I like semi-obnoxious, divisive titles. Like Fiona Apple's When The Pawn… and Smashing Pumpkins' Mellon Collie And The Infinite Sadness. I kind of felt like I shared similar themes with that album. But yeah, it seems to be quite divisive in ways that I think I anticipated a bit, but is also misunderstood in annoying ways. [Laughs]

This album comes out after you broke out and reached a whole new level of celebrity with Jubilee and Crying In H Mart within the same year. You've said that you felt "seduced by getting what you always wanted" and that that was a pretty dangerous feeling for you. Could you tell me more about that?

ZAUNER: Yeah. I think honestly for the past seven or eight years, I really became a bit of a workaholic. I think it was a great comfort for me to lean into after my mom died. And as the band grew, I found myself becoming more and more absorbed with this identity that it was hard for me to have a life outside of, because I just felt so lucky and privileged to be in that position. But there are parts of that lifestyle that are just really challenging, and I think especially after Jubilee where we went so hard on touring and promoting that record, I started re-evaluating what I needed in my life and how to achieve a bit more of a balance. And so I think that was at the top of my mind when I approached writing this record.

How do you think you translated that on this record?

ZAUNER: The record starts with "Here Is Someone," which is a song that's kind of about me asking permission from the band to take some time off, and the trepidation I had of imagining what my life might be like if this part of my life ever comes to an end. And I started thinking about other people in my life who found themselves in situations where maybe they wanted too much, or disrupted some kind of balance in their life and then were dealing with the consequences of that. And then there were some fictional songs and moments on the record where I think they're all about this kind of insatiable desire that gets them somewhere… troublesome. So in "Honey Water" it's a song about a marriage in which someone has been unfaithful because they're insatiable in their desires, and how that impacts another person and their relationship. And then there's a song called "Mega Circuit" about a younger generation of men who feel politically isolated and desire the acceptance from the far right, and the dangers of that. "Orlando In Love" is about a man who falls in love with a siren and kind of just blindly follows that call to his death. So I think that was something I was just really fixated on while I was writing this record.

Did it come with any complicated feelings to have that level of success and adulation, particularly on the back of the book, which was such a raw piece of work about your mom's death?

ZAUNER: I mean, I feel very honored to be in that position, and I feel very lucky. It's not a burden for me, it's really just a privilege. I think just because I'm not sensitive to, like, idolatry, you know? [Laughs] I really am glad that that book reached so many people and what that brought into my life. I think it was more just like, wanting to do a really good job, and feeling like it was a kind of self-betrayal or something [to step away]. I almost felt like I had just won hand after hand at a poker table and all I could think about is like, I need to leave. I need to leave before I start losing, because I inevitably will. So it was really just about how lucky I felt to be in that position, that my body and mind kind of started rebelling against me, I think.

The album has this very baroque, capital-R Romantic kind of sound. It really reflects that idea of the seduction of fame and the success. How did you cultivate that sound? Did you sit down and envision how you wanted it to sound?

ZAUNER: I mean, I originally wanted to write, like, a creepy album. So I think "Mega Circuit" and "Honey Water" were really in that camp, in terms of, I'm gonna use specific dissonant chords and progressions that feel kind of like eerie and uncomfortable. But it was very, very hard to write a bunch of songs that way. And so I think the palette brought it into this sort of melancholy, brooding, romantic type quality. I think also looking back, working with [producer] Blake [Mills] really shifted it towards that direction. I think that's kind of his style. Even when we would tackle a song that I thought could go in a different way, a lot of times it would get sort of steered — like, even just grabbing a guitar for a certain song, a lot of times an acoustic guitar was put in my hands instead of an electric one. So the album I think, in the studio too, started veering more in that direction.

Tell me about collaborating with Jeff Bridges on "Men In Bars."

ZAUNER: So I really love it when a man and woman sing a duet to one another. And I wanted this kind of really masculine, working-class stoic character to sing this song with me. It's about a woman who is unhappy in her relationship and goes to the bars to flirt with men, and reflecting on first meeting her partner, and the partner also reflecting on meeting her, and how their relationship has sort of dwindled and the spark has dwindled, and he goes to the same bar to shoot at the men who she's been flirting with. I was really inspired by this Kenny Rogers song called "Ruby, Don't Take Your Love To Town," which is this Vietnam vet who's pleading with his girlfriend not to go out and flirt with other guys. Blake and I were thinking of what the most unexpected person who fit that role well would be, and he suggested Jeff because he had worked on a session with him before. He played me a song called "Nothing Yet" [from Bridges' 2011 self-titled record] and I really loved his voice, and I was like, oh yeah, if you could convince him that would be amazing. It's just so much weirder than I expected. And he called him up and he was very down to earth and down to do it.

That's so cool. Are you a fan of his movies?

ZAUNER: Yeah, I mean, who isn't?

Becoming A Published Writer With Crying In H Mart (2021)

You've talked plenty about Crying In H Mart, so I won't ask too much about that, but I do want to ask about you as a writer in general. Has creative writing always been a part of your creative life?

ZAUNER: Yeah, I've known from a young age that I wanted to be a writer. In middle school I thought that meant that I wanted to take the path of a journalist. I really loved being a part of the school newspaper and writing columns and all that stuff. And then the more that I did that, the more I started bumping up against the rules of journalism that I found to be really restrictive and kind of wanted to be more creative.

Then when I went to college — I was a creative writing major — I had an amazing professor named Daniel Torday who's also a novelist now, and he really changed the way that I read and write, and it was such an inspiring time for me as a young person. I was playing music at that time too, but I've always felt like my strength has been in the lyrics or in the storytelling of it. I really enjoyed writing short fiction when I was in college, and strangely that path seemed more difficult or unattainable than playing music. It felt like I would have to do journalism or hopefully make it as a musician to find my way into that.

So yeah, I mean, writing Crying In H Mart was kind of like a happy accident in that way, 'cause I never thought I was gonna write non-fiction, and I feel like I employed a lot of what I learned from college about creative writing with that book. I use the skillset I learned there too for a lot of the lyrics that I write. So yeah, I think it makes its way into my work a lot.

Do you see yourself publishing a novel or anything in the future?

ZAUNER: Not any time soon. But maybe when I'm like, in my 50s or something.

How did you find the process of publishing a book? Like waiting forever, getting edits, all of that stuff. Did that feel pretty far removed from putting out music?

ZAUNER: Yeah, but I loved it. It's a thoughtful industry, full of great writers and readers and very intelligent people. No one rushes you, they're very hands-off, and they send you very long, beautiful, well-written emails about ideas that you can take or leave, and they're always things that you already knew needed to be worked on. The way that they put it in front of you makes it all make sense in this very great way. I loved every single person I worked with at Knopf, and both of my editors, and I loved the experience so much. Music is the industry I feel the most familiar with, it's the most fun people, but it's sloppy. [Laughs] No one knows what's going on, it's constantly changing, things happen so quickly. Constantly catering to some… I don't know. I found the publishing industry to be incredibly charming, and a place I'm really grateful to be a part of after being in music for so long.

The "Jane Cum" Music Video, Co-Starring Former Stereogum Managing Editor Gabriela Tully Claymore (2016)

This is something that the folks at Stereogum specifically wanted me to ask about, is the video for "Jane Cum."

ZAUNER: Oh my god, why? [Laughs]

Because it actually has a link to Stereogum.

ZAUNER: Oh, because of Gabriela?

Yeah! So tell me about this video.

ZAUNER: That's so funny. That video is like our unloved child. Adam Kolodny, who's the director of photography on all my music videos, really encouraged me, after that video, to take up directing. We've been friends for like over 10 years, and when I first started Japanese Breakfast and made "In Heaven" I reached out to him. I was like, 'I have this very, very loose idea, I need to make a music video, I have a very, very small budget, can you help me?'

So we had so much fun making "In Heaven," and he was actually I think credited as the director of that. And then I was like, 'I wanna do this witchy, The Craft type music video for "Jane Cum" if you would direct the next one.' And that was kind of the moment that he was like, 'I think you should direct, I think that you would be good at it and I'll help you.' And then we went on to make "Everybody Wants To Love You," and that was like our favorite video, and it sort of felt after that moment like, okay, I think I wanna do this from now on.

But "Jane Cum" is literally our least favorite video. There wasn't a lot of thought put into it. I was like, 'Oh, it would be really great if I levitated,' but we had no gameplan as to how that would happen. There was no real story or planning. We got three people to be in the video for like, no money, to just be cute in front of the camera with no real plan. So we always try to pretend that video doesn't exist. [Laughs] But I do really love Gabriela and Steph and Lila who were all very cool witches to be in a coven with.

Cool, we're putting your least favorite music video on blast.

ZAUNER: Oh, god.

Directing Music Videos For Better Oblivion Community Center, Charly Bliss, And Jay Som

You've directed a bunch of music videos for yourself and for other artists. What's fun and fulfilling to you about making music videos?

ZAUNER: I just love an idea coming together. And it's really fun to have all of these different departments — as I make more videos, these departments get somewhat bigger. It's just amazing to see the division of labor that goes into making visual media. Someone's on costumes, someone's on hair and makeup, someone's on production design, the DP is just looking at the light, and all of these other people are making this vision, this strange pipe dream of yours, come to life. So that aspect of it is really fulfilling.

Casting Michael Imperioli In The Music Video For "Savage Good Boy" (2021)

Tell me about getting Michael Imperioli for "Savage Good Boy."

ZAUNER: Adam and I are really big Sopranos fans. And "Savage Good Boy" is another kind of fictional song, it was about a newspaper headline I read about billionaires buying bunkers. So I think we were just like, it's just two people [in the video], so it would be great to have our first celebrity cameo in this role. I think we saw him in an advertisement or something, and just like saw the way he's aged like a fine wine. This was before The White Lotus even came out.

And yeah, we just, on a whim, like a real pipe dream, hit him up [to ask] if he would be interested, and he was. And he was so down to earth, very, very cool guy. It was the first time I got to work with, like, a real actor, and just see how they do improv, and the range of emotions they're able to convey, how they know their way around a camera. It was very intimidating to work with him. Not because of his personality. We thought he would be down because he's a big music lover, he's a really cool guy with very cool interests, and I'm really glad he was a part of it and I love the way that that video turned out.

But my big memory from that is, I didn't know how to make it look like when I bit into his neck, blood was gonna come out naturally. So we had a squirt bottle off camera, and I tried to squeeze it as I was fake biting down on his neck, and it wasn't coming out of the bottle. We were shooting on film, and I think I was just nervous and just like, 'Work, work!' And my brain kinda crossed wires, and as I was squeezing this bottle with my hand, my jaw started pushing down on his actual neck. So I like, bit the shit out of him on that set. I felt so bad, 'cause he like, had to go to the bathroom to see this huge bite mark on his neck. I was like, oh my god, he's gonna think I'm like this weird kinky girl that is trying to do something, or like, test him as an actor, I don't know. I mean, he was really cool about it, but I was so mortified. It's honestly maybe the most embarrassing thing I've ever done. So that was my main takeaway from that music video.

That's such an awful person for the most embarrassing thing you've ever done to happen to.

ZAUNER: I know. I mean, it wasn't awful 'cause he was very nice about it. He wasn't like, upset about it. But it was not something I wished to have done.

You've had Michael Imperioli, you've had Jeff Bridges. Do you foresee any more celebrity cameos? Or who would be your dream celebrity cameo in the Japanese Breakfast universe?

ZAUNER: Well, I have sort of a small celebrity cameo that's going to be coming out in the "Picture Window" music video. There's a Korean band called Balming Tiger, and one of the rappers in that group, Omega Sapien, is the lead of this music video. I met him and I just found him to be so charming, and I feel like I wrote the part for him almost. He has a real magnetic, unique presence. So I'm really excited about that cameo. Oh, and of course I had Missy from Mannequin Pussy also be my celebrity cameo in the "Be Sweet" video, and she also made an appearance in the "Orlando In Love" video. Oh, you know who I would love? I would love to work with Nathan Fielder. I think he's so funny. There was a point in time where I considered if I could get Nathan Fielder as one of the friars [in the "Orlando In Love" video]. But I think I'll have to just write something else special for him, maybe, in the future.

I would love that. I really hope that happens.

Shrinking (2023) & Mare Of Easttown (2021)

You were referenced in the Jason Segel TV series Shrinking, have you seen this?

ZAUNER: I saw the clip but I haven't watched that show.

Me neither. I also just saw the clip. Did you get friends texting you about that?

ZAUNER: It's not usually my friends, it's like, usually my husband's family. [Laughs]

You also coached the teenage band on Mare Of Easttown, who were playing songs written by Mannequin Pussy.

ZAUNER: Yeah. I love that show, and I love those kids, and I wanted to do such a good job. It was really sweet. They tapped Missy to do it, and she was on tour, and I felt very honored that my friend was like, 'If I can't do this really cool thing, I think you'll do a good job and I want you to do it in my stead.' And yeah, I mean, it was really goofy. I mostly just played them videos of singers that we really liked and showed them some videos of what Missy does on stage, and showed them how to play the guitar parts and stuff. I brought my drummer in too to show the drummer how to play it. But they didn't really even use any of that footage, so. Yeah, it was really sweet to deconstruct what you do that comes so naturally to you, and just basically try to get them to feel looser or whatever. That was a weird, fun thing.

The Michelle Zauner Coat Check At Philly Venue Union Transfer (2021)

You used to work the coat check at Union Transfer and it's now named after you. Do you have any fun stories from that time?

ZAUNER: Yeah, that is a very, very cool thing. That's maybe one of the coolest things that exists in my life. I used to work for a production company called R5 Productions that books all of these indie shows in Philadelphia. And my boss Sean Agnew, who's such a cool guy, and is the big reason I feel so connected to the music scene in Philadelphia where I came up as a musician — he was like the best boss. I mean, I was just a free intern, but he was just a really sweet guy, and I really liked all of the people that worked there.

And then he was a partner in this venue called Union Transfer, and I think I got fired from my restaurant job because I was going on tour all the time, and I really needed work, and he was like, "Okay, we're starting up this venue, you can work the coat check or concessions." And I was working a show one night and some guy gave me a fake hundred dollar bill, and I gave him 99 dollars of change. Everyone was like, "Oh, it's really obviously fake," but we'd never got any training and I didn't know how to handle that situation. No one told me that I shouldn't take a hundred dollar bill, I didn't wanna be rude. And I got in trouble, and the manager was like, 'You have to pay it back.' And I didn't even make a hundred dollars on this shift, so it was a real bust. But Sean Agnew felt really bad for me and he gave me a hundred bucks to pay it off and be left alone, and I never forgot that. It was just such a cool stand-up guy thing to do to look out for a young kid.

Many years later, Japanese Breakfast played like five sold-out nights at Union Transfer, and I called Sean Agnew up to give him that hundred dollar bill. I thought I was being really cool. And then when we finished the last night of the shows they had hand-painted the sign above the coat check that said Michelle Zauner Coat Check. He one-upped me again. I don't know, he's just such a nice person. And it feels so special because Philly will always feel like my beginnings as a musician in some ways. So it's so sweet, I get so many photos of people still going to that venue and taking pictures of the coat check. I hope it stays up forever.

Little Big League And The Emo Revival (2011-2014)

With Little Big League, you were coming up in Philly during the height of the emo revival that was happening there at the time. Do you have any memorable anecdotes from that time, like house show lineups that people would be jealous to hear about now?

ZAUNER: I think I played one show at Golden Tea House with Alex G, Frankie Cosmos, and Porches, and that was kind of a major highlight for me. It was like, maybe a hundred people. Yeah, I think that's probably one of the best ones. But yeah, that time was so fun. We were such a nothing band, but it was extremely formative and such a fun time. And yeah, amazing peers came out of that time in music.

Yeah, I was gonna ask this. So many of the best indie bands at the moment have been outgrowths of bands from that scene. Like Spirit of the Beehive from Glocca Morra, Slaughter Beach, Dog from Modern Baseball, Hop Along. What do you think it was about the city at that time that proved so creatively fertile?

ZAUNER: I think that from a completely practical standpoint, it's a fairly affordable city to live in. It's very close to other major hubs of music, so you can drive two hours to New York, DC's not so far away, Boston's not so far away. So touring is quite easy, it's easy to hit the whole northeast, all these big cities where there are lots of fans and stuff. But it's not New York, so it's not, like, unlivable. At the time I think I was living in a place that was like 300 dollars a month, and so if you were working at a restaurant and then going and playing shows in people's basements, you could get by and have time to work on music and practice with the band and do recording. So yeah, I think there's that. I think there's this kind of general underdog feeling of that city where it's just like quite spirited and tough. And yeah, there's just a really cool community there. It's like a tough but down-to-earth folk that inhabit that area. It was a great scene.

Little Big League did a split EP with Ovlov during that time. How did you get to know Ovlov?

ZAUNER: I think we were touring with LVL UP, and then there was some festival in Gainesville, Florida called the Fest. And we had a crazy night with Ovlov, LVL UP, and Pile, and Mannequin Pussy were there too. At this time, those people were all like celebrities to me. Pile was like a celebrity to me, and Ovlov too. So it was so cool to get to play house shows and party with these people, and I just felt like I was with all these legends. It's really funny to think about that now, 'cause they're all just dudes. But yeah, I think that we really hit it off. I feel like we have a lot of the same interests, we're both anime heads and similar things. And we kept in contact after playing some shows together and did that split together, and that's how that came to be. I think Steve's an amazing songwriter and obviously incredible guitar player.

Do you have any thoughts on the word or genre emo?

ZAUNER: I don't know. I feel like we were simultaneously a part and not a part of that. Like, I think that the emo people didn't really quite know what to do with us, and then the indie people didn't really know what to do with us either. So we were in this kind of weird middle ground. I feel like we never quite found our demographic or something. I mean, it was kind of weird for me because I don't know if I grew up with what I would have called emo. It felt like a sort of east coast thing. In the west coast I feel like we would have just called that indie rock, or punk music. So yeah, I think it was kind of a strange label to be a part of. There were some stewards of that that were very gung-ho about making it this moment, and we didn't really know if we should be a part of that or do something else. So I don't know, I have bittersweet feelings about it, 'cause I think it helped us a lot in some ways and it also inhibited us in some ways.

Japanese Breakfast's Split Release With Foxing (2013)

In your early days with Japanese Breakfast you did a split with Foxing. I didn't know about this until recently, which is crazy because I'm a big fan of both bands. Tell me about that.

ZAUNER: Again, we [Little Big League] went on tour with Foxing and the Hotelier, and that was sort of like the closest thing we got to a real tour. It was really fun. I remember playing Magic: The Gathering. Those guys are really nerdy. And I bonded with Conor, the singer, and he hit me up I think about doing the split. I don't remember actually if that happened before or after the tour. But Conor was always like — kind of maybe the reason why I started Japanese Breakfast in a way, 'cause he was always a really big fan of what I was doing on the side as a solo artist. And he wanted to put that on a split that they had. I don't know when I made "Woman That Loves You," but he asked to put that out on a split, and I think is like semi-responsible for me going in the direction of making more solo material.

Covering Wilco's "Jesus, Etc" With Jeff Tweedy (2022)

https://youtube.com/watch?v=E-jeRcbAqR8

You and Jeff Tweedy are mutual fans of each other. You've covered each other's songs and performed together. How have you and Jeff gotten to know each other?

ZAUNER: I mean, I'm a massive Wilco fan and have been since I was in high school. I think Wilco is one of those bands too where I just really admire their career, I think they've just consistently made great albums, and have really challenged themselves constantly to create new directions or new pathways for themselves. I saw [Tweedy] cover [Jubilee track] "Kokomo, IN," which is like mind-blowing, 'cause he is my songwriting hero. If I could emulate any path as a band it would be Wilco's, because I think they make such exciting music, and he's such a great fucking lyricist, a great guitar player, great songwriter. All the band members are all so talented. And also, it's a real family affair. When we played that festival together all of their families came out, they seem to have just a very healthy relationship.

The first time I met them I got asked to sing with them at an [Austin City Limits] performance they were doing. I don't know how they asked me — I think my manager is also a huge Wilco fan, so maybe he put my name in the ring. And that was like the scariest moment of my life, getting to sing with Wilco. One of my favorite scenes in Almost Famous is when he goes up to Stillwater and he, like, says all of their names to show off that he's like a real listener. And so I was like, "Jeff, John, Nels" — like, I did that to them. They're all kinda nerdy. They're fucking geniuses, but they're also just really down-to-earth sweet people. So we had little interactions here and there. Also, Jeff's writing books and stuff too, so we have that to talk about. I blurbed his book. It's fucking awesome to get to know him. I'm just so honored that he likes me, I think, 'cause I think he's the coolest. That was a really surreal moment in my career and something that I feel really pleased with. I love him so much.

Covering "Kids In America" With The Yeah Yeah Yeahs And Doing A Rolling Stone Interview With Karen O (2022)

You've spoken before about what a huge inspiration Karen O was to you when you were a teenager. You've since gotten to know her as well, you went onstage with the Linda Lindas to perform a "Kids In America" cover with the Yeah Yeah Yeahs. What's it been like getting to know Karen O?

ZAUNER: It's surreal. I mean, sometimes you just don't wanna meet these people. There's this weird thing that my manager does a lot where they're just dying to connect you with all your heroes, and I'm like, I don't actually want to meet a lot of these people, 'cause I like it fine with them existing in this fantasy worship world. But Karen also is just such a cool person. I mean, it's crazy to just get advice from her. When I was having a hard time on tour and stuff, she really gave me great advice about learning how to say no. She's like a sage fucking rock god. So it's really cool to have a friendship with that kind of person. I think she's just an incredible artist and also has a really enviable career of someone who's made really, really good choices for herself, and has protected herself and had good boundaries. And I think she's really protected her legacy as a result. I think the work that she decides to do is really, really interesting, and it's a career I really, really admire, and it's awesome that she's also just a really nice, cool person.

I read this quote of Karen's about the show you and the Linda Lindas did with the Yeah Yeah Yeahs, saying, "Check how much the world has changed since the last time we've been here. We have these amazing Asian-American women supporting us." I wondered, did that moment strike you as well? Did that feel moving for you as well?

ZAUNER: Yeah, and it also put in perspective how lonely she must have been during that time. I would say like in my emo days, when we did that tour with the Hotelier and Foxing, there were like 12 guys and I was the one girl on that tour. And I remember the first tour I went on with Japanese Breakfast was with Mitski and Jay Som, and how good it felt for us to all be a part of that. It must have been so lonely for her to have, I don't know, a 20-year career where she was probably the only girl in the room. And the stuff that you would get asked about back then! It happens sometimes now, but very rarely. It must have been just so annoying to come up during that time in some ways. So I have a lot of respect for her, and yeah, it's amazing to see where we've come since that time.

Bumper EP (2020)

You put out a pandemic EP as Bumper with Ryan Galloway from Crying. How did that come together?

ZAUNER: I was working on Jubilee, and I have always loved Crying — I think that Ryan is such a talented songwriter and producer, and he's just a mad genius. He makes really exciting music, and it's so underrated. I think more people should listen to Crying and follow what he's doing. But for Jubilee I wanted to work with more people. So I worked with Jack Tatum from Wild Nothing. I really love Alex G, obviously, and I really loved Crying and thought that he might be a good person to try to write stuff with.

I went to his house in New York — we were neighbors at this time, he lived really close to me. And I showed him "Slide Tackle," and wanted to see if he wanted to add anything to it or he could come up with any ideas, and he came up with this really cool guitar part and this really cool synth horn thing. And while I was there he showed me his folder of all of this music, just waiting for a vocalist. I was like, you're just sitting on a treasure trove of material, you've gotta get this stuff out there! And then when my record was derailed and postponed for a year because of the pandemic, I hit him up about like working on a fun little project, just passing stems back and forth, making this little city pop kind of EP. And he sent me "Red Brick" and "You Can Get It," and I just wrote toplines to those songs. And then I had written "Black Light" and "Ballad O" which ended up being "Men In Bars." It was just a fun little thing that we sort of lobbed back and forth together that kind of passed the time during the pandemic. I think it's a really underrated project. It's such a fun EP that didn't get much attention.

I was gonna ask about one of those tracks becoming "Men In Bars." What made you want to rework it?

ZAUNER: Ryan and I recently talked about this too. There are sometimes songs that I feel like didn't get the justice that they deserved in the production round. So that's something I did with [Soft Sounds From Another Planet cut] "Boyish" too. That is like the worst Little Big League song ever. Actually, I think it was Conor from Foxing who said this to me about that song — he was like, "I can't get you off my mind/ I can't get you off in general" is such a good lyric. And I realized it was totally buried with the band like, just jacking off all over it. [Laughs] And so I wanted to clear a space for it, 'cause I just feel like that song didn't get the due that it [deserved], and then working with Craig [Hendrix] to kind of open it up into this really classic sweet spot. That song had no life as a Little Big League song, and suddenly took on this new life as a Japanese Breakfast song. So similarly — I don't hate that version of "Men In Bars," but the band started playing around with an almost country version that gave it this new life, and so I actually asked Ryan if I could have that song back for this record and he was really cool about it. I felt like it had another life in it.

Scoring The Video Game Sable (2021) And Recording "Be Sweet" In Simlish (2022)

You wrote a score for the video game Sable. Was that your first score, and what was that experience like?

ZAUNER: Yeah, that was my first score. It was really fun. Working with Greg [Kythreotis] and Dan [Fineberg] was a great experience, and they were really cool and easygoing, and gave me a ton of freedom. I learned a ton about production and writing to picture from that experience, and it was just a real joy.

Can you see yourself scoring other stuff in future?

ZAUNER: Yeah. I don't think I can talk about it, but I actually did just write the end credits for a new movie that will be coming out this year, that I'm really excited about. So yeah, it wasn't something I was interested in before, but I'm interested in doing a little bit more now, I think.

Are you a gamer? What are your favorite games?

ZAUNER: Yeah, I grew up with video games. My dad bought me a Super Nintendo when I was really young, and was really cool about playing with me. We played roleplaying games. There's a game called Secret Of Mana that I really loved, and a game called Pocky & Rocky. My dad worked a lot, and so some of my main memories of us bonding together were playing two-player RPG games, where it's like, you have a shared objective and you're going on a journey together, and that was kind of a big part of my childhood. And I'm really grateful, 'cause he never raised me in this way of like, "Those are for boys." So I got to interact with that stuff from a really young age, and I think it really impacted me. I really loved all the Final Fantasy games and the Zelda games, and I enjoyed fighting games and stuff like that. And now as an older person I play a lot of like, Stardew Valley. I loved Breath Of The Wild. I typically lean towards like RPG and simulation games.

You recorded "Be Sweet" in Simlish for a Sims expansion pack. What was it like getting into the studio and singing in Simlish?

ZAUNER: It was so funny, and hard to not lose it while singing it. I love The Sims. I played it a lot when I was in high school and often fantasize about returning to playing those kinds of games. I loved Sims, I love Rollercoaster Tycoon. I love that genre of game. I also loved playing Guitar Hero. I told my manager that one of my bucket list things would be to get a song on Guitar Hero. 'Cause I'm pretty good at Guitar Hero, and I'm pretty good at DDR.

What's your go-to on Guitar Hero?

ZAUNER: My core memory is beating Muse's "Knights Of Cydonia" on Expert. It's so hard. But yeah, I remember spending many, many days playing that game.

Working with Jack Antonoff For The Marvel Agatha All Along Soundtrack (2024) And The 1975's "Part Of The Band" (2022)

You worked with Jack Antonoff on a song for the Agatha All Along soundtrack. What was it like working with Jack?

ZAUNER: I feel like people who don't know him have strange, divisive opinions about this man. But there's a reason why all these amazing women want to work with him on records. He's actually so funny and is a really cool guy, and uplifts creative women to recognize their vision, and doesn't have an ego about that stuff. So I don't know why people who don't know him have divisive feelings about him, 'cause I'm here to say he is a very cool guy. He's a big music fan and he's very smart and an amazing producer, and I really like him as a person and friend. And he's been very generous to me in incorporating me on some things that he's working on.

He's always a really well-connected guy, and he was working on this cool soundtrack for the show, and we had been hanging out as friends and he invited me to sing on this song that's like, sort of an interesting fit for me. And yeah, I went to his studio in LA and we cut it, and it was really fun. I don't wanna freak people out, but I hope that I get to work on something that we make together someday, because that was like, the song was already written, so there wasn't really much for me to contribute beyond just singing the song. He also called me in to sing on the 1975 track, "Part Of The Band." Oh, god, divisive.

Yeah, speaking of divisive.

ZAUNER: Yeah. I mean, I do just love that band. I think that [Matty Healy]'s really brilliant. And I love that song, I was so honored to be a part of it. So yeah, I feel lucky that I'm in Jack Antonoff's phone, 'cause he's brought me into cool stuff.

How did you meet Jack?

ZAUNER: I think he like, DMed me or something. I was doing something at Electric Lady. He was like, 'We should hang out sometime.' And it was sort of like coming out of COVID, and I was kinda like, oh, he's just one of those famous people who's saying we should hang out and get coffee sometime and then it'll never happen. But then he followed up, and we just had this great conversation about music and New York and the punk scene and playing DIY shows and building up a career as an artist. I think I just really clicked with him. And then since then he has invited me to some parties and stuff like that, and I always have a great time. I'm rooting for him, you know? I don't think he needs that, I think he's doing great on his own. [Laughs] But yeah, I think he's a really nice guy.

Do you see yourself doing an album with him in future?

ZAUNER: I mean, it's not out of the question. I've never been in the room with him while he's producing something. It's always just been like I come in to sing something, the two times that I've worked with him on something. So yeah, I would love to just see how he works. I think that Clairo record that he did is so fucking underrated, and I love all of his production work. So I would love to see how he works on my material, I'm curious about that. It didn't feel like the right fit for this record, but yeah, maybe someday in the future, I would love to have that experience.

To go back to the 1975 — you've said that that's one of your favorite bands. What's your history with being a fan of The 1975?

ZAUNER: I think I heard I Like It When You Sleep For You Are So Beautiful But So Unaware Of It. I think they feel like a very modern, interesting, provocative band. There's honestly not a lot of those these days. I think that they make great pop music, and are inspiring. I like his lyrics a lot.

Also, what you were saying about long, wordy record titles…

ZAUNER: Exactly. Yeah, that's a perfect example. I mean, I would say he's maybe one of my top three favorite modern lyricists. Oh, I shouldn't talk about it. [Laughs] I don't wanna get cancelled. But yeah, Matty Healy, Father John Misty, and Molly Rankin from Alvvays I think are my three favorite lyricists of the modern age.

Going To The Grammys For Jubilee’s Best Alternative Album Nomination (2022)

You went to the Grammys a couple of years ago. How was that? I feel like that can maybe be a weird experience for some and a fun experience for others.

ZAUNER: It was really fun. I did that thing where I always drink a lot before the actual thing happens. Like, when I got married — you know, all your friends and family come the day before, and then you all go out, and then it's really hard to not get really excited and go off on that night, even though the next day is the one that you're supposed to go off on. So [for the Grammys] I was like, 'Don't do that.' But it was such a good vibe, 'cause, like, all my managers, my publicist who's been with me since 2016, my booking agent, all of my label, my band, are all there to celebrate this huge accomplishment that we've all worked towards together. So I just got really hammered the night before, and was so wretchedly hungover at the Grammys. [Laughs] Honestly, I thought it would be really boring, but it was so much fun. It's a lot of just performances, you know? And it's a cool celebration of people in music. And it's sort of surreal to see like, Justin Bieber criss-cross applesauce on the floor watching Billie Eilish or whatever, so comfortable in this environment. But yeah, I had a lot of fun. It was a surreal, exciting moment to my career.

Japanese Breakfast - For Melancholy Brunettes (& sad women) [Frosted Shadow Vinyl]

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For Melancholy Brunettes (& sad women) is out 3/21 via Dead Oceans.